UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #20

[esther43]

I've been thinking about how to express it but that's very much the way I feel about those cases. They definitely feel to have been "built around" LL, as you say. They just seem totally different and out of context to all the others.

Yes, not sure of the actual date the insulin was discovered or when she was first questioned regarding it.

The others are essentially "contact" assaults, where it is alleged that someone has applied "hands-on", physical force in order to do something directly to the victims.

Agreed, there is something different about the approach. In the alleged attacks that preceded this though ( babies B,C and D,) LL was not the designated nurse, so we were already seeing a shift away from LL being directly caring for the child.

It, to me, seems strange that someone would carry out numerous crimes of one type and then totally change MO for a couple and then switch back again. Not that it's impossible, obviously, but they just seem totally detached from the others.

To me this is where it gets interesting. So the alleged attack on child D was on the 22nd June.
Some 8 days after the alleged offence LL messages a colleague.

"On June 30, following the deaths of Child A, C and D, and the non-fatal collapse of Child B, Letby's colleague messaged her there was something "odd" about what had happened.

Letby replied: "What do you mean? Odd that we lost three and in different circumstances?"

Letby's colleague responded: "I don't know, were they that different?"

The colleague added: "Ignore me, I'm speculating."

So IMO this could be why LL mixed up the method and moved over to insulin.

Lucy Letby 'made several Facebook searches for mum of baby who died at neonatal unit'

THE Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit nurse accused of several baby murders looked up the mum of Child A and Child B on Facebook three…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I'm educated to degree level, I've run businesses, I'm a firearms dealer and seem to spend at least 50% of my time sorting mechanical issues for people who are sometimes incapable of grasping very simple engineering concepts and I didn't know that shredders did this until mine did it several times! I'm sure I chucked at least one shredder which stopped working in the mistaken belief that it was broken. I'd not at all be surprised if LL's shredder hit it's duty cycle limit and stopped working and she thought it was broken.

Now, I'm not sure if we've had a verbatim report of her actual words in relation to it or whether the "I don't have a shredder" was just paraphrasing by the reporters but it may be some variation on "I don't have a working shredder". We've already had one very badly reported point have an entirely different meaning put to it when the actual words she used were reported accurately, after all.
<modsnip>

I totally agree. I bought a super dooper mechanical heavy duty shredder once and it malfunctioned when the extreme cutting grinding blades got clogged and the whole mechanism slightly shifted. I could have called a car mechanic to fix it probably ...

Anyways it does amuse me how always on a case thread, there's a minor sticking point that comes up over and over. In the Nicola Bulley case it was 'but was the dog wet / why wasn't the dog wet'. In Brian Kohberger it's 'did he plant the sheath / did he forget the sheath'. Well... on and on it goes... we don't know.

 

[GoodDayToYouSir]

Sure have. She’s been charged with 15 counts of attempted murder and 7 counts of murder. I’ve followed the case since day 1. I never knew it was discussed on here till I came across it and I’m far too busy to read thousands of posts. is that a requirement to post on here, to read every single post?

Of course not, but the fact that the two insulin cases did not cause the babies concerned to die is a very well known fact which has been reported extensively , not a niche point only picked up on groups such as these.

<modsnip>

 

[GoodDayToYouSir]

Here’s just one of thousands of links about the case and what she’s been charged with.

it says she’s been accused with injecting insulin into the babies. I’m surprised you don’t know that!Lucy Letby told police insulin dose given to baby was ‘not done by me’

Yes, but you said you’d read that LL killed babies by injecting them with insulin, which is what Marantz was asking you to provide a source in relation to.

The link you’ve provided does not say she killed a baby via insulin poisoning .It says clearly that the baby went on the recover

 

[Knitty]

MOD NOTE:

The number of alerts we've received on this thread alone this morning is unacceptable.

If members can't control their tempers in this discussion and stay on topic, we can do that for you by issuing thread bans or TOs.

If you think somebody is not following TOS, report it and move on instead of making yourself part of the problem by arguing back and forth with them.

Unless you can control your responses, don't post.

Thank you.

 

[Parker Knoll]

I do remember years ago buying a shredder at 9 am and I seemed to have broken it by 11am so a trip BACK to the stationary shop required and another one bought.
I have the wood burner now. It’s never lets me down !
I don’t think we will ever find out what truly happened tbh but here’s hoping.

 

[Parker Knoll]

She didn’t kill with insulin.
Allegedly she tried but was unsuccessful and they thankfully recovered.

 

[Dotta]

I do remember years ago buying a shredder at 9 am and I seemed to have broken it by 11am so a trip BACK to the stationary shop required and another one bought.
I have the wood burner now. It’s never lets me down !
I don’t think we will ever find out what truly happened tbh but here’s hoping.

I have a "living" shredder
My mini schnautzer (the cutest doggie on the whole planet Earth) is absolutely delighted when he sees a piece of paper lying on the floor!

Nothing can stop him shredding it. He is the happiest then.

 

[Parker Knoll]

My Chester is an old boy (10) cocker spaniel and used to eat literally everything.
He’s more selective now !
I feel quite stressed about this trial and I’m not sure why as I have no dogs in this race.
This sub hasn’t even been moved up to “ jury watch “ yet which doesn’t help.
The Madeline M thread is still massively active almost 15 years later.
We live here now.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I do remember years ago buying a shredder at 9 am and I seemed to have broken it by 11am so a trip BACK to the stationary shop required and another one bought.
I have the wood burner now. It’s never lets me down !
I don’t think we will ever find out what truly happened tbh but here’s hoping.

May I ask, did it just suddenly stop working? Possibly leaving a part shredded document in it?

 

[Parker Knoll]

Well now you are asking it did die mid document and yes it had half a document hanging out of it.
I think it overheated.
There was no resuscitation.
It was completely finished.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Well now you are asking it did die mid document and yes it had half a document hanging out of it.
I think it overheated.
There was no resuscitation.
It was completely finished.

This is exactly what I was talking about earlier! Shredders have a "duty cycle" which is a pre-set maximum run time. It's usually around 2 minutes. It won't necessarily have over heated, though.

Shredding paper, contrary to what most people think, is actually an extremely tough job and shredders, especially cheap ones have a hard time doing it. Paper is essentially wood and wood is very good at dulling even hardened blades. That friction is very good at overheating the motor and gearing, often to dangerous levels so they are pre-set to shut off after a certain run time to prevent them ever getting near that level. They'll typically stay off for 20 or 30 minutes and lots of people may think they're just broken. I certainly did and I'm sure I've chucked at least one which was probably perfectly fine.

Edit; now I think about it, when my grandmother died a couple of years ago, I recall that myself and my sister came across at least three shredders in her house. She'd probably assumed that she'd broken them and bought another to replace it.

 

[Parker Knoll]

It wasn’t expensive from recollection but we are going back literally YEARS.
I’m sure they have got their act together since but these are not professional shredders just for you and me.
It does happen agreed.
We could be clutching at straws here but theoretically it’s possible.

 

[Parker Knoll]

BUT I think I would of said I had a shredder but it was broken.
That’s just me.

 

[JosieJo]

I'm educated to degree level, I've run businesses, I'm a firearms dealer and seem to spend at least 50% of my time sorting mechanical issues for people who are sometimes incapable of grasping very simple engineering concepts and I didn't know that shredders did this until mine did it several times! I'm sure I chucked at least one shredder which stopped working in the mistaken belief that it was broken. I'd not at all be surprised if LL's shredder hit it's duty cycle limit and stopped working and she thought it was broken.

Now, I'm not sure if we've had a verbatim report of her actual words in relation to it or whether the "I don't have a shredder" was just paraphrasing by the reporters but it may be some variation on "I don't have a working shredder". We've already had one very badly reported point have an entirely different meaning put to it when the actual words she used were reported accurately, after all.

<modsnip - off topic>

Her own counsel asked her on the stand about why she said she hadn't got a shredder she said it was "an oversight"

Nothing about the shredder not working..her opportunity was there ..that's why he asked her ..and all she come up with was words to the effect of she forgot she had one

"Mr Myers says a shredder was found at Letby's home. Letby had previously told police in interview she did not have a shredder. Asked about this, Letby says it was an "oversight", and the shredder had come into her possession quite recently".

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, May 2 - defence begins

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Marantz4250b]

BUT I think I would of said I had a shredder but it was broken.
That’s just me.

Yeah, totally get that.

 

[Parker Knoll]

I think that’s our musings answered then.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Since everyone is talking about shredders thought I might get in on it. I want to kowthe condition this shredder fellow was fond In as if it’s brand spanking ll might be telling the truth. Others may be correct as well that it stopped working and this was the way the police knew it was bank statements in them. We also have to remember the handover sheets were dated from way before the new house so if she did have a habit of putting them in the folder she may well have continued in a highly unthinking way to store them there without really paying attention. Many handover notes were found in numerous bags which suggests they laid there and then were put in the folder as a bundle After a few months or so. I believe that folder was in the box next to the shredder so was stored with the rest of her work papers. I would be surprised if the police didn’t have the relevant info on this.

just say for instance that ll used that shredder only once and bought it for the house move, I think it’s reasonable to assume one would forget about it as it would become a piece of static and unnoticeable junk.

 

[Anxala]

Her own counsel asked her on the stand about why she said she hadn't got a shredder she said it was "an oversight"

Nothing about the shredder not working..her opportunity was there ..that's why he asked her ..and all she come up with was words to the effect of she forgot she had one

"Mr Myers says a shredder was found at Letby's home. Letby had previously told police in interview she did not have a shredder. Asked about this, Letby says it was an "oversight", and the shredder had come into her possession quite recently".

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, May 2 - defence begins

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

It seems such an odd thing to lie about when you see that she's also clearly implying (saying, in fact) that even if she did have a shredder, it would not have occurred to her to use it to dispose of the handover sheets since they 'had no purpose' and she 'did not think of them' as something she needed to get rid of -

From your link

Mr Myers: "Did you ever think to yourself, blimey, I have got a lot of handover sheets, I had better get rid of them?"
Letby: "No."
Letby says the notes had no purpose at home and she did not think of them.

Why deny having a shredder when she didn't use not having one as a reason for not disposing of the handovers?

Confusing throught process there. Or maybe it's just me with the confused thought process.

 

[esther43]

No

It seems such an odd thing to lie about when you see that she also more or less implied that even if she did have a shredder, it would not have occurred to her to use it to dispose of the handover sheets since they 'had no purpose' and she 'did not think of them' -

From your link

Yes, that's odd, pointing towards the fact they had 'no purpose'. The fact they had no purpose is the very reason that ideally, they should have ended up in the shredder like bank statements imo.