UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #20

[Marantz4250b]

But she said “on purpose “.

Interpret that as you wish to, but to almost everyone else, when someone says “I did it ON PURPOSE “ means they did - they did it on purpose.

No-one who’s innocent would say or write that they did it on purpose.

There’s no going back on her admission. It’s there in black and white.

And IMO I still suspect if she did kill them it was the parents’ she wanted to cause heartache to more than the babies, hence why she searched for their updates.


Just because she looks presentable and not like an ogre, some people think she couldn’t be evil, psychopath or sadistic - but outer looks mean nothing.

History is replete with cases of completely innocent people "confessing" to extremely serious crimes they didn't commit. One famous one in the US involved a guy who coneffesed to hundreds. Many years ago in Iceland a group of people were convicted of a murder which probably never even happened.

You cannot simply take everything at face value - this is why we have trials.

 

[Sweeper2000]

I remember this discussion from way back, and if I remember rightly the layout of the unit was very relevant re. the location of the rooms and the corridor the mother would have approached from. You would need to delve deep to find it though!
Also, the doors to the rooms would be fire doors which muffle sound a lot. Where I worked you couldn't hear a thing from the room next door.

I believe the post natal unit is located to the bottom of the picture. Two double locked doors facing it at least one.

 

[katydid23]

Completely agree he would remember the call.

However, over the space of an evening and night, assuming there are many calls, would a person be able to pinpoint exactly which call was made at a certain time?

Yes, because there were only two calls between them. The first was @ 9:11.

The second call was in response to the midwife---she called mom around 10:30-ish, to report the deterioration of baby E. Which prompted Mom's call to her husband.

So in this specific situation, it was very clear which call was made at which time.

Mom went to eat dinner and then went to express milk for the 9 pm feed time. So there is no confusion about what time Mom went to the babies room.

And no confusion about what she talked about during those two calls because her husband remembers clearly what he told his wife after the first call. He told her not to panic---he told her to trust the doctors and nurses, they know what they are doing.

And the very next call he gets from her is to tell him to hurry and come quick because their baby is collapsing.

Those calls are not hard to pinpoint. JMO

 

[katydid23]

History is replete with cases of completely innocent people "confessing" to extremely serious crimes they didn't commit. One famous one in the US involved a guy who coneffesed to hundreds. Many years ago in Iceland a group of people were convicted of a murder which probably never even happened.

You cannot simply take everything at face value - this is why we have trials.

Well, when someone confesses, you then investigate and see if it is possible or probable, in terms of location and opportunity. In this case, it seems highly probable. JMO

 

[Sundial]

I guess everyone is different.
Immediately upon reading that note I thought---- “Not good enough to care for them”---- was a reference to her not being a good enough person to care about them. If these allegations are true then she really could not care about them very much.

And that would fit better with her 'I am Evil' 'I don't deserve to live' sentiments than if she was concerned with her competencies.

To add to this, the strange thing is; we have heard in evidence her competencies were fine, there was nothing wrong with them. She had passed them.
I’m sure we didn’t even hear her mention anything about her competencies in her police interview either- It wasn’t even a point (that I can recall anywhere).

So one has to question, why would it now be about her competency when we have heard (as dr choc demonstrated) she was quite capable of her role? She’s actually striking me as someone quite capable as a nurse (on top of obtaining a mortgage, fundraising and medical terms etc) and it just appears there’s only really one other option; That she wasn’t good enough to care for them, “I’m evil” and “I did this on purpose” and then consider that along with baby Es parents testimony- I can’t help but think it’s exactly what it says on the tin. (If guilty).

Must say for me, the evidence with baby E alone is quite telling.
JMO

 

[katydid23]

What I meant was in regards to the content of each of the calls.

For example, you can go back x amount of months and see you made a number of calls to another phone, you can see exactly when these calls were made and how long they lasted, but that doesn't give you any idea of the content of the phone calls.

On the night your baby son died unexpectedly, you'd most likely remember the first call from your wife, telling you she saw him bleeding and screaming. And you'd remember her 2nd call, telling you to hurry to the hospital.

There would be no problem figuring out what you spoke about that night.

 

[marynnu]

View attachment 420147
I believe the post natal unit is located to the bottom of the picture. Two double locked doors facing it at least one.

That's it, thank you. I think it was worked out that Mom would have entered the unit at the entrance nearest the blood bank/donor milk room. Only thing is, I'm not sure which room Baby E was in at this point.

 

[Sundial]

Somebody asked if we had been made aware of any changes in LL's life in June 2015. In addition to her having completed the long line training in May 2015, she also moved back into Ash House (hospital accomodation) on 1st June 2015, after having moved out to live in a flat in town for around six months.

For a time, Letby says she moved to a flat 'in town' in 2015, before moving back into Ash House 'towards the end of 2015'.

A page from Letby's 2015 diary is shown. A note, '*Ash House*', is on June 1, 2015. It is clarified that Letby had moved back to Ash House in June 2015, having moved out for 'about six months'.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, May 2 - defence begins

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

I don’t know if this has been mentioned yet, but if this is the point she moved into the town flat as mentioned in evidence, it makes you wonder why she moved back after 6 months. I thought I read she was flat sharing but I can’t recall if she was or not.

 

[marynnu]

To add to this, the strange thing is; we have heard in evidence her competencies were fine, there was nothing wrong with them. She had passed them.
I’m sure we didn’t even hear her mention anything about her competencies in her police interview either- It wasn’t even a point (that I can recall anywhere).

So one has to question, why would it now be about her competency when we have heard (as dr choc demonstrated) she was quite capable of her role? She’s actually striking me as someone quite capable as a nurse (on top of obtaining a mortgage, fundraising and medical terms etc) and it just appears there’s only really one other option; That she wasn’t good enough to care for them, “I’m evil” and “I did this on purpose” and then consider that along with baby Es parents testimony- I can’t help but think it’s exactly what it says on the tin. (If guilty).

Must say for me, the evidence with baby E alone is quite telling.
JMO

I heard her say the words 'competencies' and 'practice' a LOT in her
police interviews, to the point where I never want to hear those words ever again!

 

[Tortoise]

That's it, thank you. I think it was worked out that Mom would have entered the unit at the entrance nearest the blood bank/donor milk room. Only thing is, I'm not sure which room Baby E was in at this point.

E&F were in room 1. No other babies in there that night.

"She tells the court she had gone into room 1, where the twins were, as was Lucy Letby, the only other adult in the room beside the mum."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, November 14

"A shift handover for August 3, 2015, the night shift, is shown to the court. Letby is named as a designated nurse.
Letby is the designated nurse for both Child E and Child F in nursery room 1 that night.
The list shows three babies in room 2, one in room 3, and four in room 4. There is also a baby in the transitional care unit."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, November 14

 

[Marantz4250b]

They weren’t circumstantial.

They were witnessed.

By senior consultant paediatricians. <modsnip>

Eye witness evidence is literally circumstantial!

The evidence puts her in a place but there is absolutely no one who has said they actually saw her doing anything illegal or harmful. Putting someone in a place at a certain time in the circumstances under which that person is alleged to have done something is.......

 

[Sweeper2000]

dbm as details posted.

 

[marynnu]

Thanks

E&F were in room 1. No other babies in there that night.

Thanks Tortoise. I half (well, more than half!) expected you to come up trumps as always. It had to be them in room 1 to be significant, I just wasn't 100% certain.

 

[marynnu]

Eye witness evidence is literally circumstantial!

The evidence puts her in a place but there is absolutely no one who has said they actually saw her doing anything illegal or harmful. Putting someone in a place at a certain time in the circumstances under which that person is alleged to have done something is.......

Not sure what point you're making?

 

[katydid23]

That's it, thank you. I think it was worked out that Mom would have entered the unit at the entrance nearest the blood bank/donor milk room. Only thing is, I'm not sure which room Baby E was in at this point.

I just found this testimony---looks like room one:

Baby E:
In the police statement, Dr Harkness said he would have been 'bleeped' by Lucy Letby.
He says that would have been the most common approach to be alerted to the nursery room 1.

LIVE: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, November 17

 

[katydid23]

Eye witness evidence is literally circumstantial!

The evidence puts her in a place but there is absolutely no one who has said they actually saw her doing anything illegal or harmful. Putting someone in a place at a certain time in the circumstances under which that person is alleged to have done something is.......

Most murder cases are based upon circumstantial evidence. They can be highly evidentiary and conclusive and informative.

 

[Marantz4250b]

You haven’t read her latest remarks, then.

But even her earlier ones, including her actions, would alert anyone to the fact she’s only feeling sorry for herself. But if she’s found guilty she’ll have the rest of her life to practice salsa dancing in her cell, so don’t worry about that, James.

Been discussed before; if I were in her position, and innocent, I'd be waaaaay past caring about literally anything or anyone at this point. This has been going on for seven years at this point and she's spent two and a half in prison.

Blubbing in the witness box would look utterly ridiculous and false, imo. Breaking down over questions she's had put to her repeatedly over absolutely years wouldn't result in her collapsing with grief. At least that would be the way I'd deal with it.

MOO

 

[Tortoise]

Another quote from the mother's evidence about location of post-natal ward

"she tells the court she was able to visit the twins in the neonatal unit, from upstairs in the post-natal wards.
She said that would take about 5-10 minutes to get from one place to the other, due to having had a C-section, which made the journey time longer."

 

[Marantz4250b]

In that case, or the more reason LL would’ve known a tiny hole would be unnoticeable…had she injected the bag herself, of course.

Still can’t think who would have done that from outside not knowing where they’d end up.

And huge, huge coincidence out of all the staff only LL picked those bags up…don’t you think?

The last part isn't true; at least one other nurse hung up some of the bags.

All been entered into evidence.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Another quote from the mother's evidence about location of post-natal ward

"she tells the court she was able to visit the twins in the neonatal unit, from upstairs in the post-natal wards.
She said that would take about 5-10 minutes to get from one place to the other, due to having had a C-section, which made the journey time longer."

Does that mean the that the mom would have used the stairs to the top left hand corner of the floor plan? The one covered by cctv. I would guess the elevator would be a better option considering her condition.