UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #21

[Tortoise]

The public announcement was in may 17 but she was made aware of the police investigation in Nov 16, presumably off the back of the independent enquiry. She received a letter the same month I believe.
Side note - Dotta, could you confirm 'enquiry' or 'inquiry' please!

Police weren't asked to investigate until May 2017. Consultants confirmed that the hospital wouldn't call the police for 11 months and were trying to have LL reinstated.

This was from her police interviews -

"Asked about why she thought the police would get involved, Letby replies: "I don't know, I just panicked."
She said she thought she would be referred to the NMC - [the Nursing and Midwifery Council] - and they would refer it to the police."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, April 27

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[esther43]

You did great!

Inquiry refers to Government ministers' investigations AFAI remember haha

JMO

Wa-hoo! Gold star here!

 

[esther43]

Police weren't asked to investigate until May 2017. Consultants confirmed that the hospital wouldn't call the police for 11 months and were trying to have LL reinstated.

Hmmm.
Was it confirmed when the 11 months stretched across? They engaged Liverpool womens in the February, which is when they must have begin the process of looking into rotas, incubators and micro biology...

 

[ColourPurple]

If Chester standard got the dates wrong then deleted the incorrect reporting.

She was certainly clear that it was written in 2016, i Find that strange it was found in her 2016 diary but she said anytime til 2018. So strange. She even explained when asked about the police investigation in the note that she thought it might escalate to them through the investigation.

No. I don't think they'd delete a whole morning's updates if they'd got one thing wrong, and apparently it's happened before too so not sure if they're even aware that they haven't saved the full day's updates. (ETA Dec 1st and 12th updates are the same, so there could be quite afew affected)

As for why she might change her story after being adamant that the note was written in July 2016 and going to great lengths to explain that to the police..

Well, if guilty it could be that she didnt think the jury would find it believable that that note had been written by somebody who had only been moved to admin and told that she (and others) would need to redo their compentencies. If guilty, she might worry that the jury might think that writing "I killed them on purpose" and "I'm evil" at that early stsage, might be more likely to have been written by somebody who had killed them on purpose and felt that the net was closing in.

So if guilty, maybe she thought it better to change her story and expand the timeline for when the note was written, rather than be questioned by the prosecution on why she would have written all that in July 2016.

JMO, if guilty.

 

[Bakers]

I

Oh but let us not forget that she reported that shebecame aware of police involvement in November 2016 (five months after being put on admin and 6 months before public announcement of investigation) And given that she already confessed that the note was written whilst on admin and before she knew about the police, this then provides a window of just 5 months, July 16- Nov 17. So why is she now expanding that to a 2 year time frame?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-65431833

You did great!

Inquiry refers to Government ministers' investigations AFAI remember haha

JMO

I think it was September 2016 she was informed she was being blamed for the deaths of babies via a letter from the Royal collage of nursing

 

[Tortoise]

Hmmm.
Was it confirmed when the 11 months stretched across? They engaged Liverpool womens in the February, which is when they must have begin the process of looking into rotas, incubators and micro biology...

I've added the quote to my post above from what she said in interview about why she thought police would get involved

 

[Diddly1]

Does anyone know if the court is sitting today, I can’t cope with these delays

 

[Tortoise]

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, May 15 - defence continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

9:18am

It is hoped the trial will be able to resume today, following a juror illness which prevented the case hearing any evidence on Thursday or Friday, May 11-12. This followed other unavailability and the bank holiday, which meant no new evidence was heard at all last week.
Should the case resume, it will be in the 28th week before a jury. Lucy Letby is due to continue giving evidence to her defence barrister, Benjamin Myers KC.

 

[Tortoise]

I



I think it was September 2016 she was informed she was being blamed for the deaths of babies via a letter from the Royal collage of nursing

I bet they didn't word it like that though. I expect it said something like an association between her shifts and the deaths had been noted and the deaths were under review.

 

[Becci]

I don't know why Dr J never raised it with LL at the start of his suspicions.
Hardly going to solve a situation discussing behind someone's back for a year.
You can't learn from mistakes if you don't get told you might be making them.
I'd appreciate been told sooner rather than later anyway.

 

[esther43]

No. I don't think they'd delete a whole morning's updates if they'd got one thing wrong, and apparently it's happened before too so not sure if they're even aware that they haven't saved the full day's updates. (ETA Dec 1st and 12th updates are the same, so there could be quite afew affected)

As for why she might change her story after being adamant that the note was written in July 2016 and going to great lengths to explain that to the police..

Well, if guilty it could be that she didnt think the jury would find it believable that that note had been written by somebody who had only been moved to admin and told that she (and others) would need to redo their compentencies. If guilty, she might worry that the jury might think that writing "I killed them on purpose" and "I'm evil" at that early stsage, might be more likely to have been written by somebody who had killed them on purpose and felt that the net was closing in.

So if guilty, maybe she thought it better to change her story and expand the timeline for when the note was written, rather than be questioned by the prosecution on why she would have written all that in July 2016.

JMO, if guilty.

Yes, when the police officer was saying ' you thought you'd never get married or have children, because you'd been deployed?'
And then Letby's later reflection...
'Um... Er, could have written that note any point actually' hmmm

 

[esther43]

I don't know why Dr J never raised it with LL at the start of his suspicions.
Hardly going to solve a situation discussing behind someone's back for a year.
You can't learn from mistakes if you don't get told you might be making them.
I'd appreciate been told sooner rather than later anyway.

I get your point, that if there was an association between her and the deaths, why not raise it? But it looks as though the only association made at that time was her presence and not her practice.
The nurse manager gathered an amount of data relating to a number of different things, including rotas, microbiology and incubators.
So at that point between June 2015 and before Feb 2016 (when he witnessed child K)
It was an association by 'presence' only.
Also LL not likely to be flagged as she was seen as a good nurse.

 

[marynnu]

I don't know why Dr J never raised it with LL at the start of his suspicions.
Hardly going to solve a situation discussing behind someone's back for a year.
You can't learn from mistakes if you don't get told you might be making them.
I'd appreciate been told sooner rather than later anyway.

Told her what though? There were no mistakes being made that anyone knew of. And it would be totally inappropriate for a doctor to start such a conversation with a nursing colleague in any case.

 

[Tortoise]

10:22am

A reminder that you can read our coverage of the trial so far here:
Countess nurse Lucy Letby: What has happened in trial so far

10:25am

The courtroom at Manchester Crown Court is filling up with legal teams, members of the public and press. Lucy Letby has already arrived.

10:30am

The judge, Mr Justice James Goss, has now entered.

10:32am

The trial is now resuming.
Lucy Letby will continue to give evidence on the case of Child F.
She confirms that, in the 10 days since her last day of giving evidence, she has not spoken with her legal representatives.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, May 15 - defence continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Tortoise]

10:36am

Benjamin Myers KC tells the court Child F had low blood glucose levels throughout the day on August 5, 2015, and had a blood test which, when analysed, showed Child F had returned a very high insulin measurement of 4,657 (extremely high) and a very low C-peptide level of less than 169.

10:38am

A chart is shown for Child F's blood glucose readings on August 5, which were 0.8 at 1.54am and remained low throughout the day, the highest being 2.9 at 5am but most readings were below 2.

10:43am

A neonatal parenteral nutrition prescription chart is shown to the court, which shows Lucy Letby signed for a lipid infusion on August 1, the infusion starting at 12.20am on August 2. Lucy Letby tells the court it lasted just under 24 hours, being taken down at 12.10am on August 3.
There was already a TPN bag (a nutrition bag) in place on August 2, the court hears, as shown by the chart. It was a "continuing 48-hour bag".
Midnight was "around the time" which fluids were changed.
Letby has signed for a TPN bag at August 3, with a co-signer. The new bag is, on the chart, beginning at 12.10am.
TPN bags last 48 hours, and lipid infusions last 24 hours.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, May 15 - defence continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Tortoise]

10:38am

A chart is shown for Child F's blood glucose readings on August 5, which were 0.8 at 1.54am and remained low throughout the day, the highest being 2.9 at 5am but most readings were below 2.

Ah yes, the reading taken by LL at 5am, which meant the designated nurse didn't check him again that shift.

 

[ColourPurple]

Yes, when the police officer was saying ' you thought you'd never get married or have children, because you'd been deployed?'
And then Letby's later reflection...
'Um... Er, could have written that note any point actually' hmmm

Yes, I think , if guilty a lot of the answers in the early interviews could have been said with a view to trying to "fob off" the police in the hope that the investigation would be dropped. So things like the explanation for the note or saying she didn't have a shreder, or that babies swallow a lot of air when vomiting etc etc. It's a bit different when you're standing in the dock, trying to convince a jury and being grilled by the prosecution.

JMO, if guilty

 

[Tortoise]

10:49am

A further sheet is shown for August 3-4, 2015. The 'continuing 48-hour bag' is signed for, but is not a new TPN bag, the court is told.
That bag was discontinued at 12.25am on August 5.
The chart shows a crossed-out prescription for August 5 for a TPN bag, where there is no lipid infusion. Letby tells the court Child F had been on milk.
"Something changed" with those requirements and a second prescription was made for a TPN bag with lipids to be administered.
The new TPN bag was hung up at 12.25am on August 5.
The bag was the same, the lipids requirements had changed, which meant a new prescription was written up.
Two nurses were involved in hanging up the new TPN bag, the court hears. Letby is one of the two nurses who signed for it.
Two nurses - neither of them Letby - are involved in the new lipid infusion.

10:50am

Mr Myers asks if there is anything Letby did which accounted for Child F's drop in blood sugar at that point.
Letby: "No."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, May 15 - defence continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Tortoise]

10:58am

A prescription chart is shown to the court, showing Child F received a 3ml, 10% dextrose bolus at 2.05am.
Child F's blood sugar had risen by 2.55am, the court hears.
Another 3ml, 10% dextrose bolus is given at 4.20am, and Child F's blood sugar level rose.
Mr Myers says Letby's night shift would have ended as usual.
A chart is shown for a new TPN bag and lipid infusion for Child F at noon on August 5, which Letby confirms would have been after her shift ended. The TPN bag was hung up and a new long line was inserted as it had been "tissuing".
Letby says if "tissuing" happens, it is "standard practice" to stop the administration, discard everything and start again with a new bag, as the TPN bag would have been sterile.

11:02am

Mr Myers says "even after that", Child F's blood sugar levels remained low throughout the day.
Mr Myers says this is not the same TPN bag Letby had hung up just after midnight. Letby confirms this.
Mr Myers asks why Letby searched for the mother of Child E and F nine times on Facebook between August 2015 and January 2016, and the father on one occasion.
Letby: "Searching people on Facebook is something I would do. Searching for [Child E and F's mum] would be when she was on my mind.
"...That is a normal pattern of behaviour for me."
Asked why Letby had taken a picture of a thank-you card written by the family of Child E and F, Letby replies: "It was something I wanted to remember - I quite often take photos of cards...I receive."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, May 15 - defence continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Tortoise]

Mr Myers says this is not the same TPN bag Letby had hung up just after midnight. Letby confirms this.

She can't confirm this. What a silly question to ask her.