UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #23

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  • #341





Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue

Mr Johnson has spent the last 10minutes going over what Ms Letby said in her defence statement as of Feb 2022 vs now in the witness box. Mr Johnson has accused Ms Letby of changing her case, she denies this

Mr Johnson says 'you are lying aren’t you Ms Letby', she says 'no'
 
  • #342
Can anyone explain about the bile? Is it just that she allegedly changed her statement or is there a deeper medical meaning to this?
 
  • #343
11:57am

The court is resuming following a short break, during which time Letby has had chance to look at her nursing notes.

 
  • #344
12:04pm

Mr Johnson says Letby's nursing notes for Child E, as read by Letby during the break, do not record blood in the nappy.
Letby says she could not recall her notes specifically at this time.
Mr Johnson reads about what other medical staff observed following Child E's collapse.
Dr David Harkness recorded, for Child E's observations following the collapse, 'kind of strange purple patches that appeared on the outside of his tummy'. Letby says it was purple, but not patches.
Letby said the other parts were 'more pale' than the pink described by Dr Harkness.
Dr Harkness said he'd only ever seen it before with Child A.
Letby disagrees. She says it was "not the same".
Asked to explain the differences between the two, Letby says it was a "solid block of purpleness" for Child E, and a "more mottled look" for Child A.
Letby agrees it was over the abdomen, but disagrees the purple patches moved around.

 
  • #345
@JudithMoritz
·
4m

Lucy Letby asked why some of her case has changed between making her defence statement, and appearing in court now. LL: "I don’t think it has changed, I just think there has been some clarification of some points" NJKC: "You are lying aren’t you Lucy Letby?" LL: "no"
 
  • #346
Can anyone explain about the bile? Is it just that she allegedly changed her statement or is there a deeper medical meaning to this?
If I’m reading correctly; it’s implying she added the word “bile”, it appears as though she changed it.
I think. She seems to be changing a lot with this one. Very damming imo
 
  • #347
12:04pm

Mr Johnson says Letby's nursing notes for Child E, as read by Letby during the break, do not record blood in the nappy.
Letby says she could not recall her notes specifically at this time.
Mr Johnson reads about what other medical staff observed following Child E's collapse.
Dr David Harkness recorded, for Child E's observations following the collapse, 'kind of strange purple patches that appeared on the outside of his tummy'. Letby says it was purple, but not patches.
Letby said the other parts were 'more pale' than the pink described by Dr Harkness.
Dr Harkness said he'd only ever seen it before with Child A.
Letby disagrees. She says it was "not the same".
Asked to explain the differences between the two, Letby says it was a "solid block of purpleness" for Child E, and a "more mottled look" for Child A.
Letby agrees it was over the abdomen, but disagrees the purple patches moved around.

these were LL's and Dr Harkness's notes -

Child E then collapsed at about 11.40pm.
Letby recorded, retrospectively: "11.40pm became Bradycardiac, purple band of discolouration over abdomen, perfusion poor, CRT 3secs.
"Emergency intubation successful and placed on ventilator..."
Dr Harkness records, in clinical notes at this time, written retrospectively, 'Sudden deterioration at 11.40pm, brady 80-90bpm, sats 60%, poor perfusion, colour change over abdomen purple discoloured patches'.
The note adds, after an improvement in sats, 'purple discolouration in abdomen remained', and a plan of action noted for Child E.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, November 14
 
  • #348
12:04pm

Mr Johnson says Letby's nursing notes for Child E, as read by Letby during the break, do not record blood in the nappy.
Letby says she could not recall her notes specifically at this time.
Mr Johnson reads about what other medical staff observed following Child E's collapse.
Dr David Harkness recorded, for Child E's observations following the collapse, 'kind of strange purple patches that appeared on the outside of his tummy'. Letby says it was purple, but not patches.
Letby said the other parts were 'more pale' than the pink described by Dr Harkness.
Dr Harkness said he'd only ever seen it before with Child A.
Letby disagrees. She says it was "not the same".
Asked to explain the differences between the two, Letby says it was a "solid block of purpleness" for Child E, and a "more mottled look" for Child A.
Letby agrees it was over the abdomen, but disagrees the purple patches moved around.

So no mention of blood in the nappy either.

Random evidence no-one seems to have heard before today and not in her notes as she claimed and then can’t recall. It seems.

That hole she’s digging just keeps on getting bigger.
JMO
 
  • #349
12:06pm

Mr Johnson reads through another doctor's observations, who said she had not seen the discolouration, but Dr Harkness was "animated" when he was describing what he had seen to her.
Letby says she was not there for any conversation between the two of them.

 
  • #350
6m ago12:05

Letby contradicts own nursing notes​

Before the break, Letby was handed a copy of her nursing notes from the night Child E died.
She previously claimed she had recorded in her notes there was blood in his nappy. Letby now tells the court her notes show she did not write anything about blood in Child E's nappy.
"You knew that wasn't true," Nick Johnson, prosecuting, asks.
"No, I couldn't recall my notes specifically at that time."
The prosecution claims Letby has repeatedly falsified medical notes - this being another example of how her recollection of events has changed.

 
  • #351
I’m a bit baffled by this: she said prior to the break that she wrote about blood in the nappy in her notes. They then break so that she can read her notes, after which it seems there’s no mention of blood in the nappy contained in them, to which she responds that she can’t specifically recall her notes. But she did prior to the break! So which is it? Just saying you can’t remember whenever you’re caught in a potential lie doesn’t come across as credible in the slightest IMO
 
  • #352
12:16pm

Letby is asked to read her retrospective nursing note for Child E, which described Child E's collapse and subsequent decline until he died in his parents' arms at 1.40am.
The note would have been made with reference to medical notes, Letby tells the court.
Letby is asked to look at an observation chart and a blood gas chart.
Letby says when things are going on, it would be standard practice to write, also, on the back of handover sheets or spare bits of paper.
Letby is asked about a "purple band" of discolouration she had recorded for Child E. In her police interview, Letby accepts struggling to recall the size of it at that time.
Mr Johnson says for May 5's evidence, Letby said it was a "red horizontal banding across his abdomen", and only on the abdomen.
Letby agrees with Dr Harkness it was on the abdomen, but does not agree with Dr Harkness's observation it was patches.

 
  • #353
I’m a bit baffled by this: she said prior to the break that she wrote about blood in the nappy in her notes. They then break so that she can read her notes, after which it seems there’s no mention of blood in the nappy contained in them, to which she responds that she can’t specifically recall her notes. But she did prior to the break! So which is it? Just saying you can’t remember whenever you’re caught in a potential lie doesn’t come across as credible in the slightest IMO
Exactly this ^^^
 
  • #354
Now12:19

Child E died in his parents' arms​

The court is then shown Letby's nursing notes from the night Child E died, which were completed at 4.51am and written "in retrospect" for the care given from 8pm the previous night.
They outline the different medical interventions he was given throughout the night.
Child E eventually died at 1.40am in his parents' arms.
The prosecution asks if Letby remembers all of this information in her head. She is then asked what she wrote down specifically at the time things were happening.
She says she "can't recall".
Letby says: "It was usual practice when things were ongoing [that] we wrote on the back of the handover sheet or any piece of paper that was around at the time."

 
  • #355
hopefully they have the back of her handover sheet available
 
  • #356
12:21pm

Letby is asked to look at a chart showing aspirates for Child E, which included 'minimal aspirates' prior to the collapse.
Letby agrees that showed no signs of gastro-intenstinal issues for Child E, until the 9pm reading of 16ml 'mucky' aspirate, in her writing.
Letby "cannot recall" why Belinda Simcock had written in the 10pm aspirates column. Letby "assumes" the blood came out following those 10pm readings.
"Why was Belinda there at all?"
"I can't say for sure."
Letby says Belinda had come to assist for the 16ml aspirate observed an hour earlier.
Letby says she "cannot say" why Belinda was carrying out observations at that time.

 
  • #357
12:16pm

Letby is asked to read her retrospective nursing note for Child E, which described Child E's collapse and subsequent decline until he died in his parents' arms at 1.40am.
The note would have been made with reference to medical notes, Letby tells the court.
Letby is asked to look at an observation chart and a blood gas chart.
Letby says when things are going on, it would be standard practice to write, also, on the back of handover sheets or spare bits of paper.
Letby is asked about a "purple band" of discolouration she had recorded for Child E. In her police interview, Letby accepts struggling to recall the size of it at that time.
Mr Johnson says for May 5's evidence, Letby said it was a "red horizontal banding across his abdomen", and only on the abdomen.
Letby agrees with Dr Harkness it was on the abdomen, but does not agree with Dr Harkness's observation it was patches.

Seems as though she can’t make up her mind on this one. First the mothers timing, the bile, the nappy and now the colour on the abdomen; quite in contrast with what she’s said previously.
All my own thoughts JMO etc
 
  • #358
Why has she brought up 'raw sewerage' today? Is she claiming it caused the death of this particular baby or some of the other babies? Did BM ask any of the experts whether raw sewerage could have caused the deaths (I assume not)? Just seems like another desperate, haphazard move from her.
 
  • #359





Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·

Mr Johnson is now going back over what doctors reported seeing on Child E's skin at the time of his collapse. They described seeing a rash/patches on the infant (this the prosecution say is a symptom of air embolism)


Ms Letby says she does not agree what was seen on Child E was in 'patches'.


Mr Johnson says 'you had injured (Child E) hadn’t you and that’s why he was bleeding'. 'No', Ms Letby says
 
  • #360
Letby says Belinda had come to assist for the 16ml aspirate observed an hour earlier.
This just sounds desperate now, to me.
 
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