UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #25

[Jayney404]

I’m cautious in ascribing emotions to any defendants relatives. People who commit crimes can have their personality and behaviour shaped in childhood.

The parents may be suffering, they may not, anything we think is pure conjecture based on our own life experience.

They have not stated how they are thinking or feeling. I will wait to hear from them.
JMO IMO

 

[Tortoise]

Episode 39, 'Homicidal activities'

www.mailplus.co.uk

Copy of Episode 39, 'Homicidal activities'​

In this episode Caroline and Liz explain what Lucy Letby said when questioned by the prosecution about Babies K to Q.

Brilliant question put by Mr Johnson (in the podcast) -

..he asked her about a blood test result and resuscitation notes which were written on a paper towel, that were found under her bed by police after she was arrested. Another nurse who was on duty and we can't name previously told the trial that it was her practice to put the blood test result in the confidential waste bin on the unit at the end of the shift.

NJ: Why did you take the blood gas record home?

LL: Same as the handover sheets, they came home in my pocket.

NJ: Are you seriously suggesting somebody else put it into your pocket?

...
JMO

 

[WaxLyrical]

There is probably a grain of truth in the allegation but it has been exaggerated on the stand.

For example, I could believe there was a bit of a leak from a pipe in the corner of a room , whereas a gushing coming from the sinks which was allowed to persist for more than a couple of hours without the whole unit being closed and the patients shipped out to another hospital, I find far less plausible.

Myers questioned one of the nurses on cross and they agreed there were plumbing problems on the unit. And in one of the reports from sewage-testimony-day, Letby had said the plumbers had been called out several times. While I don’t think sewage was backing up through the overflow or whatever, it does sound like there were plumbing issues, and if there wasn’t I’m sure we would have heard this lie exposed by the prosecution. Quite frankly it is disgusting given they are caring for the most vulnerable.

Parents on the stand also attested to lackadaisical hand washing and nurses coming to work while clearly ill.

Whatever happens in this case, the hospital does not seem to have been providing the standard of care I would have expected.

 

[Dotta]

Whatever happens in this case, the hospital does not seem to have been providing the standard of care I would have expected.

That is why the whole management was repalced if I remember correctly.

 

[WaxLyrical]

That is why the whole management was repalced if I remember correctly.

There were staffing changes, but not sure whether those running the unit were free to go and do that same job in another trust.

 

[GoodDayToYouSir]

There were staffing changes, but not sure whether those running the unit were free to go and do that same job in another trust.

That’s usually what happens, unfortunately

 

[WaxLyrical]

That’s usually what happens, unfortunately

It’s ridiculous really, that (if guilty) a serial killer was free to do their thing unchallenged for a year. I don’t buy that anyone who matters was manipulated by Letby, the NHS is evidence-based, the mortality rate was waaaay in excess of the norm, and it honestly sounds to me like people were whispering around in the background and doing not much else. For the alleged insulin poisonings to STILL go unnoticed until years later is, in my view, unforgivable. And if Letby is found guilty, then others should still remain accountable for their own shortcomings which enabled such horrific crimes to take place, and not just be able to move on to another trust without any accountability whatsoever. JMO.

 

[Jayney404]

Management were seemingly resistant to addressing the issue. Seconding ll out of the unit if guilty was just masking the problem. If she’d offered to leave She may have been provided with a reference and this pattern could have repeated at another hospital/s.

JMO IMO

 

[marynnu]

Myers questioned one of the nurses on cross and they agreed there were plumbing problems on the unit. And in one of the reports from sewage-testimony-day, Letby had said the plumbers had been called out several times. While I don’t think sewage was backing up through the overflow or whatever, it does sound like there were plumbing issues, and if there wasn’t I’m sure we would have heard this lie exposed by the prosecution. Quite frankly it is disgusting given they are caring for the most vulnerable.

Parents on the stand also attested to lackadaisical hand washing and nurses coming to work while clearly ill.

Whatever happens in this case, the hospital does not seem to have been providing the standard of care I would have expected.

Of course nurses go to work when ill, you couldn't function otherwise. JMO.

 

[Becci]

It was 29 June 2016 that air embolism was discussed.

ETA I think not mentioning the rash in medical notes or to the coroner (and possibly the association they' had seen with LL being present) is the matter of regret he's referring to

ETA2-" Baby A's inquest was in October 2016 so the inquest was after the air embolism was mentioned in June 2016, so he may have been referring to regretting not mentioning the research too but the first time air embolism was brought up was still June 2016.

Wow so it took 16 months & resulted in unaccerted.
Makes me wonder how the air embolism got missed until Dr Evans did his review.

 

[Legal]

I can only think of something vaguely similar in the Ian Stewart trial (Helen Bailey). He accused two mystery men called Nick and Joe of kidnapping and murdering Helen. There was a massive moment in the trial where the prosecution introduced two of his friends called Nick and Joe into court, as the descriptions he'd given of the mystery Nick and Joe fitted his two friends. So he hadn't directly accused them but he had accused two imaginary people called Nick and Joe, who just happened to look the same as his mates Nick and Joe!

Mr Trimmer asked: "The people called Nick and Joe are modelled on people you know, aren't they? You know people called Nick and Joe from your time at Bassingbourn. Do you know someone called Joe Cippullo?"<

"Yes, he's a bowler," Stewart replied.

"And Nick Cook?" asked Mr Trimmer.

"Yes, he's my next-door neighbour," Stewart replied.

His trial had previously heard that Joe was a smartly dressed, grey-haired man with olive skin and a foreign accent.

Then, Mr Trimmer said: "They are both here so you can have a plain look atthem."

A small, smartly dressed Italian man with short hair was brought into thecourtroom, joined by a taller, greying man in a suit.

"You recognise them, do you, Mr Stewart?" he was asked.

"Yes, it's Nick and Joe," he replied.

The pair were then escorted out of the room, with Stewart adding: "Those two who walked in don't know each other at all, they are in totally differentcircles."

Mr Trimmer said: "In your head they are people known as Nick and Joe, aren't they? They are people that you had as part of an aide-memoire in your head."

https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2017-02-13/drama-in-court-as-prosecution-in-helen-bailey-murder-case-produces-nick-and-joe

In the US, Jodi Arias accused her murder victim of being a paedophile and faked letters depicting him as such. She was convicted of first degree murder and is serving a life sentence but I don't know if the clearly fabricated allegations were ever formally disputed.

 

[Moll]

I can only think of something vaguely similar in the Ian Stewart trial (Helen Bailey). He accused two mystery men called Nick and Joe of kidnapping and murdering Helen. There was a massive moment in the trial where the prosecution introduced two of his friends called Nick and Joe into court, as the descriptions he'd given of the mystery Nick and Joe fitted his two friends. So he hadn't directly accused them but he had accused two imaginary people called Nick and Joe, who just happened to look the same as his mates Nick and Joe!

Mr Trimmer asked: "The people called Nick and Joe are modelled on people you know, aren't they? You know people called Nick and Joe from your time at Bassingbourn. Do you know someone called Joe Cippullo?"<

"Yes, he's a bowler," Stewart replied.

"And Nick Cook?" asked Mr Trimmer.

"Yes, he's my next-door neighbour," Stewart replied.

His trial had previously heard that Joe was a smartly dressed, grey-haired man with olive skin and a foreign accent.

Then, Mr Trimmer said: "They are both here so you can have a plain look atthem."

A small, smartly dressed Italian man with short hair was brought into thecourtroom, joined by a taller, greying man in a suit.

"You recognise them, do you, Mr Stewart?" he was asked.

"Yes, it's Nick and Joe," he replied.

The pair were then escorted out of the room, with Stewart adding: "Those two who walked in don't know each other at all, they are in totally differentcircles."

Mr Trimmer said: "In your head they are people known as Nick and Joe, aren't they? They are people that you had as part of an aide-memoire in your head."

https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2017-02-13/drama-in-court-as-prosecution-in-helen-bailey-murder-case-produces-nick-and-joe

Thanks for finding this hilarious moment in an otherwise appalling trial. I had also thought of Nick and Joe and of The Strimmer, Stuart Trimmer KC, prosecutor, on whom many of us were almost as keen as Dotta is on Nick Johnson KC.

NJ KC is clearly also a brilliant barrister but, having come late to this case on Websleuths, I got the wrong Nick Johnson KC for a while - there's one based in Manchester who's mainly international fraud etc, and our Nick Johnson KC is based in Liverpool. He's a bit older, maybe that's why he has one or two quaint turns of phrase.
I won't try to compete with Dotta, but he's impressive!

 

[Dotta]

He's a bit older, maybe that's why he has one or two quaint turns of phrase.
I won't try to compete with Dotta, but he's impressive!

Good old school

 

[Dotta]

"Homicidal activities"
Episode 39

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[Becci]

How long left is there roughly pls?

Thanks for finding this hilarious moment in an otherwise appalling trial. I had also thought of Nick and Joe and of The Strimmer, Stuart Trimmer KC, prosecutor, on whom many of us were almost as keen as Dotta is on Nick Johnson KC.

NJ KC is clearly also a brilliant barrister but, having come late to this case on Websleuths, I got the wrong Nick Johnson KC for a while - there's one based in Manchester who's mainly international fraud etc, and our Nick Johnson KC is based in Liverpool. He's a bit older, maybe that's why he has one or two quaint turns of phrase.
I won't try to compete with Dotta, but he's impressive!

The last line caught my eye 1st & i thought no way dotta's a he loll

 

[Parker Knoll]

How long left is there roughly pls?

The last line caught my eye 1st & i thought no way dotta's a he loll

Roughly a month.

 

[ColourPurple]

Thanks for finding this hilarious moment in an otherwise appalling trial. I had also thought of Nick and Joe and of The Strimmer, Stuart Trimmer KC, prosecutor, on whom many of us were almost as keen as Dotta is on Nick Johnson KC.

NJ KC is clearly also a brilliant barrister but, having come late to this case on Websleuths, I got the wrong Nick Johnson KC for a while - there's one based in Manchester who's mainly international fraud etc, and our Nick Johnson KC is based in Liverpool. He's a bit older, maybe that's why he has one or two quaint turns of phrase.
I won't try to compete with Dotta, but he's impressive!

Stewart definitely would have been better off not taking the stand! And the thread's suspicions about his wife's sudden death years before Helen's murder turned out to be spot on too, as he'd killed her too!

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Can someone explain to me what the proceedings being conducted without the jury but with a public gallery are? Why is that taking place? I don't understand how these things work, not trying to imply anything unusual.

 

[Cardgame]

I thought lying under oath was in itself a crime that you could be arrested for. LL seems to have admitted lying under oath, but the judge hasn't reminded her of her oath or warned her or anything.

Or has he and they just aren't reporting it?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

That is why the whole management was repalced if I remember correctly.

Sept 2018, TC, CEO of the Countess of Chester Hospital stepped down after 6 years in position in the wake of the investigations.

It was reported in mainstream media, I'm not sure if we're allowed to name him or post the link which is why I haven't but it's easy to locate.