UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #25

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  • #481
No wonder the permission was granted for a new £110mill women & children's building.
They had not long had a new unit built too from fundraising.
They dug up her back so I'm surprised the police weren't combing the drainage there to.
 
  • #482
IMO LL testifying destroyed all the potential defences that Myers put forward, such as her agreeing with the insulin cases being deliberate poisonings. All he could do was try and go with what she said, which was the plumbing issues!!!
 
  • #483
Defense Case:

Another report is on June 6, 2016, a 'flood in courtyard' of the neonatal unit. Mr Mansutti says this may have followed a heavy downpour. He does not believe the foul drainage runs that way, so it would more likely be surface water.
Another report is on July 5, 2016, in ward 35/CLS, for 'various plumbing jobs in NNU'.
'Check pall water filters for poor flow'
'Check that all valves in the ceiling void are fully open - NNU and by theatres...'
'Leaking sink in Sluiceroom - please check'.
Mr Myers asks about the last of these jobs.
Mr Mansutti says it is likely a leak in one of the sinks. He says there is not a Sluiceroom in the neonatal unit.


11:37am

Nicholas Johnson KC, for the prosecution, asks Mr Mansutti questions.
Mr Mansutti agrees that one of the problems for the flooding was adults 'putting things down sinks'.
One incident is somebody 'forcing a wipe towel down a sink'. Mr Mansutti accepts an incident did take place.
He says none of the incidents led to no hand washing facilities availability, and there is a system in place.
He says there has been 'sewage floods' in the neonatal unit. He says there was once incident, undated, not on a Datix form, where there was sewage on neonatal unit room 1.
He says he has knowledge of it because of "disgust", and work was done on moving sewage pipes away from the unit room in future, "so it couldn't happen again".
He says, for his recollection, it was a "one-off".
Mr Johnson says half the incidents listed did not take place in the neonatal unit. Mr Mansutti says there would not have been a direct effect on that unit for those days.


11:37am

That completes Mr Mansutti's evidence.
It also completes the evidence presented in the Lucy Letby trial.


The trial judge, Mr Justice James Goss, is now giving preliminary directions to the jury.


11:40am

The trial judge says he has to discuss his directions of law with the prosecution and defence before he can deliver them to the jury.
He says those will likely be presented to the jury on Thursday, and the jury will not be present in court 'for very long'.


11:42am

The judge says the week beginning July 3 is when the jury will be expected to go out.
He says it is in the "hope and expectation that nothing untoward occurs", as the trial has had delays and it has gone on longer than expected.


11:43am

He also reminds the jurors of their obligations not to discuss the case with anyone, and not to discuss it amongst themselves until they are sent to deliberate.


11:44am

The jury are now sent home for the day.
 
  • #484
I can’t imagine that jury not sitting through this witness and wondering what relevance it has to any of LL‘a alleged crimes.

The only thing I can think of is he showing that LL didn’t lie on the stand, at least in regards to the sewage? I believe the prosecutor had insinuated she was wrong or lying about it? I know it’s not much….
 
  • #485
The only thing I can think of is he showing that LL didn’t lie on the stand, at least in regards to the sewage? I believe the prosecutor had insinuated she was wrong or lying about it? I know it’s not much….

Possible, but it’s a fairly weak argument amongst all the other things she’s been accused of. Sewage is a serious health hazard but it’s not going to cause alleged air embolisms and insulin poisonings. Just feels like a weird one to hang your defence on!
 
  • #486
Possible, but it’s a fairly weak argument amongst all the other things she’s been accused of. Sewage is a serious health hazard but it’s not going to cause alleged air embolisms and insulin poisonings. Just feels like a weird one to hang your defence on!

Totally agree!
 
  • #487
Wow, can't believe that the defence has no witnesses. That looks so bad. Prosecution took 7 months, and defence condensed down is a couple of weeks really.

it occurred to me there are a few things we never got to hear more about. Johnson seemed to indicate that txt messages showed Letby was texting during a resuscitation, then said something like 'I'll get to that'. he never did so I assume that wasn't correct ultimately.

Also she was never asked about pricking her finger and fainting in A&E. I guess that isn't so important, but I was wondering why it was included in evidence.
I think just because we didn't get to hear about it doesn't mean it wasn't raised. I'm always shocked to hear of things that seem quite significant being relayed in the podcast that no journo's even touched on in live updates. I think sometimes the reporters in their separate room might also have had trouble hearing everything.

I'm so shocked about today. We all joked about Myers calling the plumber to court, but he actually did! What's more the plumber wasn't present either for the 22 incidents listed in the spreadsheet. ;)

Speechless!
 
  • #488
Wow, can't believe that the defence has no witnesses. That looks so bad. Prosecution took 7 months, and defence condensed down is a couple of weeks really.

it occurred to me there are a few things we never got to hear more about. Johnson seemed to indicate that txt messages showed Letby was texting during a resuscitation, then said something like 'I'll get to that'. he never did so I assume that wasn't correct ultimately.

Also she was never asked about pricking her finger and fainting in A&E. I guess that isn't so important, but I was wondering why it was included in evidence.
Or about her changing the blood sugar readings on one of the insulin records
 
  • #489
OMG!! I was wrong. That's it!!
That's just mind blowing in it's suddenness. Bang. Over!

Reminds me of the end to one of my favorite films - Vanishing Point.
 
  • #490
I think any potential defence witnesses backed out after Letby’s cross examination. I feel so sorry for Myers at this point.
 
  • #491
I can’t imagine that jury not sitting through this witness and wondering what relevance it has to any of LL‘a alleged crimes. JMHO
'Scraping the barrell' springs to mind
 
  • #492
Can anyone explain a reason why no expert witnesses have appeared for the defence ? I don't mean that as a stupid question. Is it down to the fact that no expert wished to be involved or what they said could easily be thrown into doubt?

I am gobsmacked !!!!!!!

Do we know when the closing speeches and the judges summing up will take place ?
It could be that any experts they consulted agreed with the Crown's experts. It seems likely to me, given the number of experts we've heard from.

JMO
 
  • #493
IMO LL testifying destroyed all the potential defences that Myers put forward, such as her agreeing with the insulin cases being deliberate poisonings. All he could do was try and go with what she said, which was the plumbing issues!!!
Myers had agreed with the insulin poisoning way before LL took the stand. He just said no one has proven who did it.

Edited to add testimony -


Dr Evans said there was 'only one explanation' for the 'astonishing' levels of insulin found in Child F's blood.

'These were very, very striking results. There's only one explanation for this, (Child F) had received insulin from some outside source', he said.

Dr Evans said he had concluded the drug had most likely been added to the baby's Total Parenteral Nutrition (TPN) bag, which is used to intravenously provide feeds to infants.

Ben Myers KC, defending, has no questions for Dr Evans on his evidence

Medical expert Dr Sandie Bohin, who reviewed Dr Evans' findings, is now in the witness box.

She's asked if she agrees with Dr Evans that this was a case of insulin poisoning via TPN bag.

'Yes', she says

Again, Mr Myers has no questions for the witness. That concludes her evidence.

https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue
 
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  • #494
The only thing I can think of is he showing that LL didn’t lie on the stand, at least in regards to the sewage? I believe the prosecutor had insinuated she was wrong or lying about it? I know it’s not much….
I don't think he insinuated she was lying about that. He asked LL if she'd submitted a Datix and asked what it had to do with the facts of baby E's death.
 
  • #495
It could be that any experts they consulted agreed with the Crown's experts. It seems likely to me, given the number of experts we've heard from.

JMO
You were right about the medical experts. He had none.

I really thought he was going to at least get someone to come testify to the suboptimal care issues in the unit. The plumber seemed so anticlimactic. :rolleyes:
 
  • #496
I think any potential defence witnesses backed out after Letby’s cross examination. I feel so sorry for Myers at this point.

Definitely a possibility. I wasn't expecting character witnesses (they would add nothing here) but the fact that all he had left, courtesy of LL's testimony, in his bag of tricks was a plumber to try and give weight to the hygiene issues is kind of damning.

Ben Myers, in the end, can only work with the material he has. Them's the breaks.
 
  • #497
So the next step is that the judge presents his directions of law to the jury. What about closing speeches from the defence and prosecution? Does anyone know if/when they are likely to be presented?
 
  • #498
Wow, can't believe that the defence has no witnesses. That looks so bad. Prosecution took 7 months, and defence condensed down is a couple of weeks really.

it occurred to me there are a few things we never got to hear more about. Johnson seemed to indicate that txt messages showed Letby was texting during a resuscitation, then said something like 'I'll get to that'. he never did so I assume that wasn't correct ultimately.

Also she was never asked about pricking her finger and fainting in A&E. I guess that isn't so important, but I was wondering why it was included in evidence.

He definitely went back on the texting, although not resus. I suspect we just have big blocks missing still to be honest.
 
  • #499
So the next step is that the judge presents his directions of law to the jury. What about closing speeches from the defence and prosecution? Does anyone know if/when they are likely to be presented?
Closing arguments and then judge's summing up of the evidence will be between tomorrow and July 3rd when the judge has predicted the jury will be sent out to deliberate.
 
  • #500
So I have a theoretical question— if she is guilty, how do you think she planned her crimes? Was each attack premeditated (hypothetical—when waking up that day— “oh today I think I’ll try insulin and see what happens! ”) or were these impulsive acts carried out in the moment?

I’m having trouble wrapping my mind around this, only if she’s guilty and IMO.
 
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