UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #26

[marynnu]

According to her words in this interview in March 2013 she did

“I am currently undergoing extra training in order to develop and enhance my knowledge and skills within the Intensive Care area and have recently completed a placement at Liverpool Women’s Hospital."

View attachment 430915

https://www.coch.nhs.uk/media/74654/chester_standard_babygrow_page_1070kb__28.03.2013_.pdf

It doesn't indicate what she did though, and we do know she completed her 405 around May 2015. The term 'placement' might indicate they had a reciprocal arrangement with Liverpool to give staff wider experience? But who knows!

 

[ColourPurple]

It doesn't indicate what she did though, and we do know she completed her 405 around May 2015. The term 'placement' might indicate they had a reciprocal arrangement with Liverpool to give staff wider experience? But who knows!

She was definitely undergoing some kind of training related to working in ICU though. Assuming she's telling the truth of course lol

 

[esther43]

Ordinarily, the prosecution can't cross-examine their own witness.

Was that why NJ got a spot of redirection there from Judge Justice Goss? ;-)

 

[Tortoise]

Was that why NJ got a spot of redirection there from Judge Justice Goss? ;-)

Sorry, I don't know what you're referring to.

 

[esther43]

Sorry, I don't know what you're referring to.

At 12.54 pm - the judge asked NJ whether he was finishing the prosecution's case. Seemed he was only just tucking into EP after Myers' had her up there for sometime.
I recall at the time thinking the judge was rushing him somewhat. Not sure whether there are limits as to what the prosecution can ask the witness or whether there is an agreed scope.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, April 27

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Blondiexoxo]

Just caught up on the last couple of days. NJ has done brilliantly with his closing, going through each case and highlighting the ‘malevolent’ presence of LL.

I am glad he brought attention to the comment she made about ‘I knew what I was looking for’ on the day proceedings abruptly ended, due to LL claiming she was ‘unable to concentrate’.

Also glad he brought up LL using ‘I don’t remember’ to avoid answering questions. And also her allegedly not knowing what ‘go commando’ means.

I think it’s amazing how NJ clearly knows this case inside out, he has made note of every contradiction, every lie, every ‘coincidence’ and really hammered it all home to the jury. Aswell as not ignoring some of the discrepancies during the defence cross examination of prosecution experts. IMO he knows where BM is going to go with his closing. The timeline NJ has presented shows the collapses were unusual, unexpected and were happening at such a rate that colleagues were talking about it even as early as baby D. By the time it came to baby O & P doctors were so concerned they felt they had to do something.

I know they’ve said BM wants a week for his closing but I can’t see it lasting that long, he’s not allowed to bring up anything that’s not already in evidence so what’s he planning on spending a week talking about?
NJ’s closing was so powerful IMO BM really has his work cut out.

All MOO

 

[Tortoise]

At 12.54 pm - the judge asked NJ whether he was finishing the prosecution's case. Seemed he was only just tucking into EP after Myers' had her up there for sometime.
I recall at the time thinking the judge was rushing him somewhat. Not sure whether there are limits as to what the prosecution can ask the witness or whether there is an agreed scope.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, April 27

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

I think he had probably finished questioning her. It doesn't seem likely that the judge interrupted examination to ask that, it looks as if it was the next matter arising IMO.

 

[Music2022]

Could anyone explain the reason the babies can’t be named by the media during the trial? Since the names of the ones who had passed away have been published in the media years ago.

 

[gerbil]

Insulin is kept in the ward fridge, accessible by anyone with the keys. The only logical possibility is that it was added to the TPN/dextrose bags, as the hypoglycaemia problem was so prolonged.

The other possibility that occured to me as someone on insulin is that it'd be really easy for someone to just take one of my pens out of my fridge at home without me noticing for weeks... they need to be used at room temperature from just before first use, but kept cold before that.


I wonder if she had any diabetic friends/relatives/colleagues etc?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

The other possibility that occured to me as someone on insulin is that it'd be really easy for someone to just take one of my pens out of my fridge at home without me noticing for weeks... they need to be used at room temperature from just before first use, but kept cold before that.


I wonder if she had any diabetic friends/relatives/colleagues etc?

I assume it has long since been established that she herself is not diabetic?

 

[gerbil]

Could anyone explain the reason the babies can’t be named by the media during the trial? Since the names of the ones who had passed away have been published in the media years ago.

I think because it would mean the parents could be identified?

 

[gerbil]

I assume it has long since been established that she herself is not diabetic?

You'd hope so! I would think it would have come up at work (and in the trial) if she was insulin dependent herself - varying shift times can play havoc with glucose levels.

E2a as can poor sleep/missing meals/not eating regularly/poor diet/not staying hydrated, and a million other things

 

[SleepyJoe]

Adding this here—I wonder if there was any resentment among the other doctors that LL had a couple doctor friends, one very close? Just curious if it would be considered a “class” issue— would any doctors deem a nurse to be “below” them, social class wise? IMO, if guilty

No, not at all! We all work as part of a team and all team members are valued equally with important roles to play. I have close friends who are nurses. I don't know any doctors who consider themselves "above" nurses - if they exist they'd be few and far between IMO.
ETA: plenty of doctors marry nurses too!

 

[May72031]

Where do you get the idea that there is a media witch hunt against her? I cannot see any evidence of that at all and, in truth, this trial is getting far less coverage than I'd ever guessed it would have.

Indeed. The media have simply reported on the evidence presented to the court - which is, by law, what they are only allowed to do.

 

[IDK]

No, not at all! We all work as part of a team and all team members are valued equally with important roles to play. I have close friends who are nurses. I don't know any doctors who consider themselves "above" nurses - if they exist they'd be few and far between IMO.

OK, thanks for your reply. That is reassuring to hear!

 

[SleepyJoe]

Thanks for the info. I had ducked out of following this thread at one point. It seems to be the suggestion / assumption that the insulin must have been injected into the TPN bags as that's the only way it could have got in.

Would LL have had access to the storage fridge and the syringes required and also have been able to dispose of them?

I'm wondering this as I wonder if insulin comes in other forms like maybe oil based drops that you take in the mouth or something (eta - I am aware of how insulin is supposed to be administered).

Insulin can only be administered intravenously or subcutaneously. It cannot be administered orally. While I don't work in NNU, in my experience in similar environments (adult intensive care), any nurse can get the keys to fridge or medication cupboard by getting them from whoever is holding them (a frequent refrain is "keys please!" or "who's got the keys?!"). Syringes are usually easily available on a trolley close to the clinical areas. It would be very easy to get the keys to go to the fridge for another reason, and if noone is looking, slip a small vial of insulin in one's pocket. Similarly, it would be very easy for one to slip an insulin syringe in one's pocket. If one was so inclined and didn't want anyone to see one drawing up insulin it could even be done when one was in the bathroom (disgusting I know, but possible), then slip the drawn up syringe back in one's pocket.

In summary, IMO there would be opportunities for any nurse to covertly obtain, draw up and inject insulin into a TPN or dextrose bag if one was so inclined. All hypothetically and IMOO.

Mary could elaborate further!

 

[Sundial]

Oh well,
Everything concerning her seems ambiguous.
I give up

Nowt stranger than us British folk I often feel we just seem to like to confuse people!!

 

[Sundial]

You'd hope so! I would think it would have come up at work (and in the trial) if she was insulin dependent herself - varying shift times can play havoc with glucose levels.

E2a as can poor sleep/missing meals/not eating regularly/poor diet/not staying hydrated, and a million other things

The interesting thing with your post; she did suggest on the stand if perhaps it may have come from outside the hospital. Just because she might or not be dependant (if guilty) doesn’t mean anyone else in her family or close circle wasn’t. We just don’t know.

BUT, just to add further to this; there have been diabetic nurses who during their student training can only do one night shift throughout the 3 years. Due to the issues with diabetes you have highlighted, there are universities who now accommodate for this (although I don’t know how long this has been implemented). Training typically involves a mixture of days and night shifts, which are compulsory as we might expect. Students usually follow a similar pattern to that of qualified nurses (including access to handover sheets and everything else-within reason, in order to train; that’s kind of the whole point).
With diabetic nurses/students however this makes it more challenging, and I do know of adjustments for student colleagues (via occupational health) made where the student may only do a rather small handful (if only ever one) night shift throughout their whole entire training if they are diabetic-which still meets NMC standards to qualify.

One person I know of quite well was diabetic and as a student only ever had 1 night shift throughout their whole training but still successfully graduated and went on to work permanent day shifts as a theatre nurse.

Not sure if it’s relevant to the case at all, but I just thought I’d throw it out there and (as a non-diabetic) I can only emphasise and understand the points you mention; they can be a real obstacle and quite valid in this sort of work.

My experience only JMO

 

[Cardgame]

It's interesting that the conspiracy accusation/defence has been levelled by LL at the doctors.

You'd think (IF guilty) that if you wanted to convince people that *someone* was covering up incompetence, it would be more cunning to accuse your fellow nurses.

I wonder to what extent this relates to:

(A) awareness that the consultants were the ones leading the charge for LL to be investigated

(B) if guilty, possible narcissistic outrage that the 'higher status' individuals she aligned herself with had turned against her/failed to recognize her superiority among the nursing staff

(C) hopes that by keeping the nursing staff sweet they might help defend her

(Once she realised they weren't going to, she started throwing them under the bus left right and centre and was secretly undermining them in text messages the whole time IMO MOO)

 

[Marantz4250b]

Yes, the media is much more restrained these days. You only have to look back at the media’s coverage of Christopher Jefferies when he was arrested for Joanna Yeates murder to see how much they’ve had to dial it back.

The difference with him though, is that he actively sought out the media to speak to them whereas LL was arrested straight away. There was already a momentum behind him with the media.

It was truly shocking how they treated him, tbh. People need to be extremely cautious when speaking with the media regarding anything remotely significant.