VERDICT WATCH UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #28

[ColourPurple]

The summing up is a really good condensed version of events. So I can see why they’d want a copy of it. Equally though, it’s just a summing up. I guess they’re just going to have to muddle through it all.

I think in this day and age we're so used to technology being there to provide videos/transcripts of anything we've missed or want to see/hear again. So I can totally understand why they'd expect the court to provide that info, especially in such a long complex case. Personally I'd like them to have it too, but maybe it would set a risky precedent as you'd then have jurors not bothering to listen during trials and just relying on a copy of the judge's summary to make their decisions.

 

[Dotta]

I would be overwhelmed by thousands of pages of documents

The right foreperson is a key factor here.
Patience, empathy, active listening, diplomacy (avoiding conflicts).

Strong and decisive, with clear vision and organisational skills -otherwise, they all will drown in this sea of papers!

JMO

 

[Popcorn80]

I can totally see this going into August!

 

[GoodDayToYouSir]

I think in this day and age we're so used to technology being there to provide videos/transcripts of anything we've missed or want to see/hear again. So I can totally understand why they'd expect the court to provide that info, especially in such a long complex case. Personally I'd like them to have it too, but maybe it would set a risky precedent as you'd then have jurors not bothering to listen during trials and just relying on a copy of the judge's summary to make their decisions.

Judge should have warned them before he started summing up that they should take lots of notes because they wouldn’t be getting a transcript imo .

 

[bobbymkii]

Here's to hoping we have Dan on Twitter to at least keep us somewhat informed throughout the deliberations process. IE whether they're actually deliberating or not - since court listings sites have provided nearly no information at all throughout the trial!

 

[bobbymkii]

Judge should have warned them before he started summing up that they should take lots of notes because they wouldn’t be getting a transcript imo .

If there is someone more in-the-know than I am, please correct me, but I'm not sure if they're actually allowed to make notes during closing summaries and instead rely on their notes made during the trial. And, in this case, their iPads.

 

[Bethan]

We should all meet in Cockington once the verdict is announced.
I hear the flowers are beautiful this time of year.

You beat me to it!!

 

[Dcflag]

If there is someone more in-the-know than I am, please correct me, but I'm not sure if they're actually allowed to make notes during closing summaries and instead rely on their notes made during the trial. And, in this case, their iPads.

What’s the point then? Surely it’s all part of the trial and all relevant.

 

[Dotta]

So
How many posters have already dropped from our Deliberations Competition?

Asking for a friend

 

[Moll]

If there is someone more in-the-know than I am, please correct me, but I'm not sure if they're actually allowed to make notes during closing summaries and instead rely on their notes made during the trial. And, in this case, their iPads.

I think they are allowed to take notes at all stages of the trial, in England and Wales anyway.

Role of the jury

EDIT Just realised this one's Irish - I'd expect E & W to be the same but will check for another one!
See postscript.

While looking for that information I found some interesting articles. This one's about the impact of note-taking on jurors' recall and other aspects - it's American but the points would apply here too:

The impact of individual differences on jurors’ note taking during trials and recall of trial evidence, and the association between the type of evidence recalled and verdicts

and this one's calling for more research on juries.

Why it’s time to allow researchers access to jury deliberations | LSE Research

EDIT PS Here's a large English solicitors' firm's guide for jurors

A guide to juries - Noble Solicitors

which says 'Throughout all stages of the trial, you can take notes on the proceedings if you find this helps, and you can pass these on to the foreman or forewoman, and they can then ask the judge to explain certain aspects of the case.

 

[bobbymkii]

What’s the point then? Surely it’s all part of the trial and all relevant.

it's part of the trial, but not part of the evidence. At the end of the trial the barristers on each side and the judge have some time to remind them of certain things, but they're meant to reach their own conclusions.
They certainly shouldn't rely on it so much that they need a transcript of the summing up in the jury room!

 

[WaxLyrical]

I find it bizarre and ridiculous that jurors are unable to get a copy of the summing up, it shouldn’t be a speed-writing or memory exercise for them. Different people digest information on different ways. Surely the most important thing is making sure they have all the relevant information, and given that they have literally tens of thousands of pages, a copy of the summing up would likely be welcomed and sensible.

It’s a relic of our ancient court system, and should really be dragged into the current century.

I really feel for them, especially when they’ll all need to feel very comfortable in their decision making. There is likely to be an underlying feeling of “are we missing/forgetting anything”.

 

[notsure]

I find it bizarre and ridiculous that jurors are unable to get a copy of the summing up, it shouldn’t be a speed-writing or memory exercise for them. Different people digest information on different ways. Surely the most important thing is making sure they have all the relevant information, and given that they have literally tens of thousands of pages, a copy of the summing up would likely be welcomed and sensible.

It’s a relic of our ancient court system, and should really be dragged into the current century.

I really feel for them, especially when they’ll all need to feel very comfortable in their decision making. There is likely to be an underlying feeling of “are we missing/forgetting anything”.

It does seem a little odd that the judge is basically telling them: "If you missed it the first time, tough. I ain't saying it again."

 

[WaxLyrical]

It does seem a little odd that the judge is basically telling them: "If you missed it the first time, tough. I ain't saying it again."

Especially when the transcript already exists!

 

[Marantz4250b]

What’s the point then? Surely it’s all part of the trial and all relevant.

I think it's more the case that if only one section of the trial is provided as a transcript then the jury may place more weight on it than other things when, in reality, a judges summing up, although important, is a rather minor part of the whole.

 

[Dotta]

Especially when the transcript already exists!

But it must mean that it is against some rules, no?

But then, what do I know?
I have never even been to Court

 

[notsure]

Especially when the transcript already exists!

It's bizarre. The jury should have any info they require at this point.

 

[WaxLyrical]

But it must mean that it is against some rules, no?

But then, what do I know?
I have never even been to Court

Yes, absolutely, but it’s those rules which I think should be challenged.

I just feel the jury should have access to transcripts of everything that’s happened, especially in a trial of this length and complexity. Anything at all which could help support them in ensuring that they are aware of all the facts. Especially when they’ll be discussing witness testimony that happened nine months ago!

 

[Marantz4250b]

There is likely to be an underlying feeling of “are we missing/forgetting anything”.

I can see the counter argument to that, though. If they are given a transcript of the judges summing up they may be likely to think the opposite, that they haven't missed anything as its all in the summing-up. Which, of course, it isn't!

If they are given a transcript of the summing-up then they should have a transcript of everything.

 

[dalsglen]

I'll go for Thursday at 3.11 for the verdict, not sure which Thursday right enough...