VERDICT WATCH UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #28

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  • #161
11:18am

The judge says the mother of Child Q said the baby was in and out of hospital about three times a year, and had a weakened immune system, and was diagnosed with developmental delay, and would require appropriate support.
Professor Owen Arthurs reviewed radiograph images for Child Q. A single loop of dilated bowel was seen in the first, which was 'slightly normal', and gas in the bowel which had gone to the bowel wall. They were 'signs of NEC', but 'not diagnostic' of NEC.
"Things were settling" at the time of the third x-ray, taken at Alder Hey.
Dr Dewi Evans and Dr Sandie Bohin had considered the possibility of NEC.
Dr Evans said although there were markers of Child Q having infection, from the bile aspirates and 'not really tolerating feeds', it did not explain the 'sudden collapse' at 9.10am, with a 'very significant deterioration', and it was 'not clear how to put it all together'.
The suspicion of NEC was 'perfectly reasonable', as was putting Child Q on CPAP.
He said Child Q would not have vomitted anything at all, unless 'a lot' of clear fluid had been forced down the NGT, possibly with air as well.
He said once Child Q had vomitted, he recovered. He said in relation to the air+++, there was very little Neopuffing taking place. He said when babies vomit, they do not swallow air.
In cross-examination, he accepted he had initially concluded Child Q had received air, and not fluid. The air++ was 'noteworthy'. Dr Evans refuted he had 'added' the liquid element to support the case. He said the evidence he had heard from the people looking after Child Q had been "a great help" in forming his opinion. He said the presence of NEC or otherwise could not be discounted, but that would not cause a sudden collapse, and noted the rapid recovery of Child Q, and no further gastro-intestinal problems until his discharge from the Countess hospital in July 2016.
Dr Bohin noted the aspirates were 'not uncommon' for Child Q prior to the collapse. She did not know where the fluid+++ came from for Child Q, from the notes. Child Q's intermittent air was unlikely to cause the 'air++' aspirated. She concluded Child Q had been given air down the NG Tube, which had distended the abdomen so much, squashing the lungs, causing mottling. In cross-examination, she agreed 'mucus+++' being aspirated could cause problems with breathing. She said there was not a cause of where the 'mucus+++' would have come from.
She refuted the possibility of any baby sucking in air during a vomit. She added aspirates was a sign of NEC, as well as other factors. She said it was not a diagnosis of NEC. She said Child Q 'got better too quickly for it to have been mild NEC'.

11:20am

Letby was enquiring with a male doctor about what Dr Gibbs had been saying about leaving Child Q unattended. The doctor reassured Letby.
After Letby was taken off nursing duties, she filed a grievance with the hospital in September 2016. She said that time was emotionally difficult and had left her feeling isolated.

11:22am

The judge says agreed evidence says searches of Letby's home in Chester and Hereford were carried out in 2018 and 2019 respectively.
He said there were various papers collected, including 'NOT GOOD ENOUGH' and 'I am a horrible evil person'.
The defence says these were notes written by someone who was 'distraught' at what was happening and was being 'unfairly targeted'.
The prosecution say the notes are by 'a troubled person' who was 'in part confessing to what she had done'.

11:24am

257 handover sheets were found at Letby's Chester and Hereford homes, 21 of which in relation to babies in the indictment.

 
  • #162

Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue

Judge Goss is reminding the jury of the evidence in this case, he is taking them back over what clinicians said about Child Q - he was assessed to be 'stable' before and subsequent to his collapse


Judge Goss summarises what Child Q's mother said about his health in the years following his discharge from the Countess of Chester. She said he was 'in and out of hospital many times' with 'various infections'.

Clinicians expect Child Q to live a normal lifespan, but have said he will require regular observations
Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
1m

Judge Goss is reminding the jury of messages exchanged between Ms Letby and a doctor, who cannot be named for legal reasons, in the days following Child Q's collapse - this is around the time she was taken off frontline duties by hospital management and given a clerical role

He reminds the jury that 257 handover sheets were seized at her home, 21 of which relate to children in this case
 
  • #163
apologies for being irritatingly pedantic but because some of the children in the indictment are/were twins or triplets there won't be 34 parents. It's 28 I think?
Otherwise, spot on.
Gosh how right you are.

26 I think, 13 sets of parents
 
  • #164
  • #165
  • #166
11:29am

In relation to a note filled in on both sides, Letby said she had written it as 'everything had got on top of her', and 'it made her feel guilty and isolated' and 'she was blaming herself'.
She thought the police would be involved and she would lose her job. She thought she was being victimised by Dr Ravi Jayaram and Dr Stephen Brearey. She said despite what she had written, she 'had not killed them on purpose'.
She said she was 'career focused' and the note 'I AM EVIL I DID THIS' was how the situation had made her feel. She said that year was difficult as there were more babies being admitted to the neonatal unit, with more complex needs such as chest drains and stomas, and staffing levels were 'quite poor at times', and she was doing a lot of additional shifts and overtime, and did not believe there was much support on offer.
She said the handover sheets she had taken home in her pocket, were kept 'for no particular reason' and she 'did not know how to dispose of them'.

 
  • #167
11:29am

In relation to a note filled in on both sides, Letby said she had written it as 'everything had got on top of her', and 'it made her feel guilty and isolated' and 'she was blaming herself'.
She thought the police would be involved and she would lose her job. She thought she was being victimised by Dr Ravi Jayaram and Dr Stephen Brearey. She said despite what she had written, she 'had not killed them on purpose'.
She said she was 'career focused' and the note 'I AM EVIL I DID THIS' was how the situation had made her feel. She said that year was difficult as there were more babies being admitted to the neonatal unit, with more complex needs such as chest drains and stomas, and staffing levels were 'quite poor at times', and she was doing a lot of additional shifts and overtime, and did not believe there was much support on offer.
She said the handover sheets she had taken home in her pocket, were kept 'for no particular reason' and she 'did not know how to dispose of them'.

How lame and ambiguous her explanations sound to ME!
 
  • #168
11:29am

In relation to a note filled in on both sides, Letby said she had written it as 'everything had got on top of her', and 'it made her feel guilty and isolated' and 'she was blaming herself'.
She thought the police would be involved and she would lose her job. She thought she was being victimised by Dr Ravi Jayaram and Dr Stephen Brearey. She said despite what she had written, she 'had not killed them on purpose'.
She said she was 'career focused' and the note 'I AM EVIL I DID THIS' was how the situation had made her feel. She said that year was difficult as there were more babies being admitted to the neonatal unit, with more complex needs such as chest drains and stomas, and staffing levels were 'quite poor at times', and she was doing a lot of additional shifts and overtime, and did not believe there was much support on offer.
She said the handover sheets she had taken home in her pocket, were kept 'for no particular reason' and she 'did not know how to dispose of them'.

"She said the handover sheets she had taken home in her pocket, were kept 'for no particular reason' and she 'did not know how to dispose of them'."

Did she say she "didn't know how to dispose of them? " I don't remember her saying that, but she must have if the judge quoted her.
But I do remember her saying she 'collected paper.' :rolleyes:
 
  • #169
"She said the handover sheets she had taken home in her pocket, were kept 'for no particular reason' and she 'did not know how to dispose of them'."

Did she say she "didn't know how to dispose of them? " I don't remember her saying that, but she must have if the judge quoted her.
But I do remember her saying she 'collected paper.' :rolleyes:
I think, from memory, that is what she said to police.
 
  • #170
11:42am

Letby had said 'ideally', handover notes should be put in the confidential waste bin. She said she 'hardly ever looked at them'.
In evidence, she confirmed she had bought a shredder, and 'only shredded bank statements', and the handover sheets and notes were 'insignificant'.
When asked about Child M's blood gas records, the note taken home was 'an error on her part', and said the sheets had 'no meaning to her'.
In a 2019 police interview, she identified a 'support network' of three nurses and a doctor she had after being removed from nursing duties.
She had she was 'not really aware' of air embolisms, and could not recall any specific training in that.
In her 2020 interview, Letby was asked about the diaries. She said she thought she started documenting names amid concerns of the rising number of babies dying.
In evidence, she said she had liked all doctors at the hospital. She said she was worried she was in trouble as she may have made a mistake in the care of Child Q.
She accepted, in an email she had written, she was 'having a meltdown++' as noted.
In messages to a colleague, she accepted reference had been made to air embolus, and had filed a Datix form on July 1, 2016 in which she cited an open port had a potential risk of air embolus.
She denied she was 'covering herself' for a cause of accidental air embolus or 'getting her defence in with friends'.
Asked about a series of Facebook searches for parents' names of babies, she had they were for babies who had died or were seriously unwell. She denied she was 'checking up on her victims', but that they were 'on her mind'.
She said she could not recall why she had written a sympathy note for all three triplets [Child O, Child P and the surviving triplet], when one of the triplets survived.

 
  • #171
I think, from memory, that is what she said to police.
It's kind of a silly explanation. Who doesn't know how to get rid of papers? So many easy ways---rip them up, shred them, burn them, dump them, return them to office disposal site, etc etc
 
  • #172
What is the sympathy note? Is that the ‘today is your birthday’ note, or is there another one we haven’t seen?
 
  • #173
11:49am

The judge says the jurors have to be sure of the defendant's guilt, her character, and any inconsistencies between evidence given by the defendant and any witnesses.
The judge says if jurors are sure that two babies had insulin administered to them, deliberately, they have to consider whether that was a coincidence, or whether it was done to [my note - by?] one person, and if so, who.
He says there were 'certain common features' among the cases, that the defendant was on duty for each event. He refers to the note that Nicholas Johnson KC had referred to, which was a list that included five babies had unusual bleeding, eight had discolouration. The defendant said she did not see discolouration or there was no discolouration to be seen. Five babies' collapses happened within moments of a nurse going on break. Four of the babies were 'screaming/crying uncharacteristically'. Four babies recovered after being taken to another hospital. Three cases were where Letby was accused of behaving inappropriately after the baby passed away.
The prosecution say these are not unconnected events, and say the insulin, air embolus and post-mortem findings can make the jury sure of Letby's guilt.
Letby denies doing any harm, and the searches and keeping of confidential documents had nothing sinister. The handwritten notes were 'a product of despair'. The defence say the jury cannot be sure in any event of Letby's guilt.

 
  • #174
In her 2020 interview, Letby was asked about the diaries. She said she thought she started documenting names amid concerns of the rising number of babies dying.

I don’t recall ever hearing this in evidence …. It’s ALMOST a semi credible explanation.
 
  • #175
11:51am

The judge says a 20-minute process will now commence where jurors will affix their name labels to all the confidential documents they will have for their deliberations, to begin soon. He says there will be a few more things to be said to the jury once this process is completed, before the deliberation process can then begin.

 
  • #176
In her 2020 interview, Letby was asked about the diaries. She said she thought she started documenting names amid concerns of the rising number of babies dying.

I don’t recall ever hearing this in evidence …. It’s ALMOST a semi credible explanation.
I wonder though, why she only said it on her last arrest. It would have been much fresher in her mind in 2018 and 2019.
 
  • #177
In her 2020 interview, Letby was asked about the diaries. She said she thought she started documenting names amid concerns of the rising number of babies dying.
Don’t remember hearing this before today...
 
  • #178
11:54am

The judge says the beginning of the deliberation process is a 'strict procedure', and after the 20-minute break, he has a few words, but 'important words', to say to the jury.

 
  • #179
Letby had said 'ideally', handover notes should be put in the confidential waste bin. She said she 'hardly ever looked at them'.
I always thought that line was significant, as even by her own description she's admitting that she DID look at them , even if it was "hardly ever". So they weren't something just thrown in a bag, under the bed and forgotten about, IMO.
 
  • #180
It's kind of a silly explanation. Who doesn't know how to get rid of papers? So many easy ways---rip them up, shred them, burn them, dump them, return them to office disposal site, etc etc
Yep, let me count the ways!
 
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