VERDICT WATCH UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #28

[Dotta]

I think it's really significant that the defence had their own expert witnesses lined up but didn't call any - apart from the plumber, obvs. I'm trying to think of any circumstances under which that that it is not utterly terrible for the defence but having difficulty.

It would be interesting to know whether this was a change of tack by the defence or that their experts decided they were having nothing to do with them any more? I suspect that perhaps her own evidence had the effect of totally undermining what they were going to say.

The plumber was just a witness.

The witness to appalling conditions the staff had to work in.

Did the "raw sewage" kill the Babies?
Of course not.

But is showed neglect.

JMO

 

[Tortoise]

I think it's really significant that the defence had their own expert witnesses lined up but didn't call any - apart from the plumber, obvs. I'm trying to think of any circumstances under which that that it is not utterly terrible for the defence but having difficulty.

It would be interesting to know whether this was a change of tack by the defence or that their experts decided they were having nothing to do with them any more? I suspect that perhaps her own evidence had the effect of totally undermining what they were going to say.

I really can't see that her evidence had anything to do with it. She seemed to stick to the line of what the defence originally said in opening speech, from a medical point of view, except for saying that she couldn't dispute the insulin evidence for baby L, and in fact Myers never even introduced the idea that he would be calling experts. His line was always that the jury would have to consider with caution what the prosecution's experts had to say.

I think it's pretty clear that the experts they instructed would not be able to assist her defence. They would have known this from the meetings the two sets of experts had before trial, IMO.

 

[Becci]

How long usually after a verdict does the thread close on here pls?

 

[JosieJo]

I think it's really significant that the defence had their own expert witnesses lined up but didn't call any - apart from the plumber, obvs. I'm trying to think of any circumstances under which that that it is not utterly terrible for the defence but having difficulty.

It would be interesting to know whether this was a change of tack by the defence or that their experts decided they were having nothing to do with them any more? I suspect that perhaps her own evidence had the effect of totally undermining what they were going to

Presumably he had medical experts advising him ...maybe they were on standby so to speak ..as in watching the trial in case anything came up along the way that might help ..but it didn't,?

Is that legally feasible?

 

[Jazmania]

I really can't see that her evidence had anything to do with it. She seemed to stick to the line of what the defence originally said in opening speech, from a medical point of view, except for saying that she couldn't dispute the insulin evidence for baby L, and in fact Myers never even introduced the idea that he would be calling experts. His line was always that the jury would have to consider with caution what the prosecution's experts had to say.

I think it's pretty clear that the experts they instructed would not be able to assist her defence. They would have known this from the meetings the two sets of experts had before trial, IMO.

Why would they instruct experts that wouldn't help her defence though?

Are you saying all the experts from both sides get together before the trial? Surely not!

 

[Legal]

In my country we sometimes say:
"One cannot deal with it without Vodka"

Dotta, I have a lot of Polish friends and went to a Polish party once and thought they'd run out of vodka! I was devastated until the host informed me all the vodka was in the freezer!!! Apparently all Polish people keep the vodka in the freezer!

 

[Dotta]

Dotta, I have a lot of Polish friends and went to a Polish party once and thought they'd run out of vodka! I was devastated until the host informed me all the vodka was in the freezer!!! Apparently all Polish people keep the vodka in the freezer!

To chill hotheads

 

[Tortoise]

Why would they instruct experts that wouldn't help her defence though?

Are you saying all the experts from both sides get together before the trial? Surely not!

They wouldn't know what the expert's findings would be until they instructed them.

That they met before trial was confirmed in the podcast.

The judge said -

"Although you know that experts were instructed on behalf of the defence and there were meetings between experts, the only witnesses from whom you have heard were called by the prosecution."



The Criminal Procedure Rules 2020

Pre-hearing discussion of expert evidence​

19.6.—(1) This rule applies where more than one party wants to introduce expert evidence.

(2) The court may direct the experts to—

(a)discuss the expert issues in the proceedings; and

(b)prepare a statement for the court of the matters on which they agree and disagree, giving their reasons.

 

[Parker Knoll]

And I wonder WHO was here from the VERY beginning

I was glued to these threads from Day1 - much to my family's displeasure
[/

I have to say that I'm quite surprised. I recall thinking it looked decidedly dicey back near the start.

Ha ha … I had to dip out this afternoon so I’m just catching up now.
From thread 1 when it was a “ healthcare professional arrested “. We went two years from 2018 - 2020 from recollection on just one thread.
Didn’t you bet your house at one point Marantz or should we not mention that now !

 

[Dotta]

Dotta, I have a lot of Polish friends and went to a Polish party once and thought they'd run out of vodka! I was devastated until the host informed me all the vodka was in the freezer!!! Apparently all Polish people keep the vodka in the freezer!

To add

"Vodka must be served chilled
Broth must be served hot"

The idea to serve vodka as cold as ice comes from, among others, because thanks to the ethanol content, the drink will not freeze to an icicle. This only happens at -27 degrees C.

 

[Parker Knoll]

Oooh … yes straight from the freezer !
Perfection !

 

[katydid23]

Better not to praise the day before the sunset!
It can always finish with Hung Jury.

Ooops
Did I really say that?
Oh well
One never knows what tomorrow might bring.

I don't think it will. They have dedicated themselves for 9 months already. I doubt they will allow it to totally implode now.

There might be a few charges they cannot come to an agreement about, who knows? But I think they will make a decision on the vast majority of them. I have seen cases where the jury came to a successful verdict on most of the charges, but were hung on one or two.

 

[Parker Knoll]

Those are my thoughts Katy.

 

[Marantz4250b]

"Didn’t you bet your house at one point Marantz or should we not mention that now !"*

Erm......did I? Yeah, don't think we really need to bring that up, tbh.



*Don't know why the quite thing isn't working?

 

[Parker Knoll]

Yes - the quote thing I think has a glitch atm.
Elephants never forget !

 

[SusanDonim]

To add

"Vodka must be served chilled
Broth must be served hot"

The idea to serve vodka as cold as ice comes from, among others, because thanks to the ethanol content, the drink will not freeze to an icicle. This only happens at -27 degrees C.

Ooh, I'm not a big spirits fan but that combo sounds lovely! Plenty of fresh bread too

 

[Dotta]

"Didn’t you bet your house at one point Marantz or should we not mention that now !"*

Erm......did I? Yeah, don't think we really need to bring that up, tbh.

Oh come on!!!

You bet this house of yours TWICE!

I never forget

 

[marynnu]

The plumber was just a witness.

The witness to appalling conditions the staff had to work in.

Did the "raw sewage" kill the Babies?
Of course not.

But is showed neglect.

JMO

I don't think it was all that bad Dotta!

 

[katydid23]

But treating Experts as Prosecution's or Defence's is misleading IMO.

Experts represent medical knowledge.

OK, they were called by Prosecution, but then it is Prosecution that charges.

Does Defence need to bring other Experts?
But why?
Would they represent "another medicine" ?

They would represent another medical expert's educated opinion, if they could have found anyone capable and willing to testify.

I have seen cases where both sides had medical experts, who agreed on much of the medical testimony, but with some important differences. In the end, even medical experts have to sometimes speculate to come to their conclusions.

In fact, I remember saying that we would not see other experts -
and was jumped on

Defence's task is to "find holes" in Prosecution's evidence.

Right. And if he wanted to create big holes he should have found someone to back up his claims.

And create resonable doubt.

I am against treating Experts instrumentally.

JMO

 

[Dotta]

I don't think it was all that bad Dotta!

This hospital was run appallingly IN MY OPINION!!

That is why the alleged serial killer could operate in such "murky waters" for a year!

And guess what?
She was employed in Safety Office
And management still fought Consultants and wanted to bring her back to the unit.

I have no further comments.

Just My Opinion