UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #3

[Gardenista]

I'm not sure whether the law provides for more alternates?

Good point, it might be set in stone in the UK. In US trials, I've seen varying numbers of alternates depending on the length of the trial. As an example, the Durst trial was scheduled for 6 months but it went longer due to Covid. They had 12 alternates for that trial.

 

[gill1109]

Inappropriate smiling/laughter might be a sign of mental illness.

I cannot imagine smiling while looking at a parent whose baby died

Inappropriate laughter: Causes, treatments, and coping strategies

Inappropriate laughter is not a medical diagnosis, but some medical conditions may make inappropriate laughter harder to avoid. Learn more.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

I can imagine that all too well. In my opinion (and experience), embarrassment, shock, and sorrow cause some people to behave in ways seen by many people to be inappropriate. This has been seen in many likely miscarriages of justice in the Netherlands catalogued by Prof. Ton Derksen in the Netherlands. I can supply references to his works if anyone is interested. I doubt that Dutch people are terribly different in this respect from English people. A particular case with which I have been professionally involved is that of Kevin Sweeney, convicted of the murder of his wife Susanne in the Netherlands. The case is thought by many experts to have been a miscarriage of justice.

 

[Dcflag]

I wonder if dr jayarams credentials will play any part in the trial on top of his obvious degree and vast medical experience! I guess it gives that extra edge to his credibility that’s he’s almost a friendly faced itv dr.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Thanks for that pal. If she was paying privately though, her costs would be refunded/covered by the court though right?

Unless she is seriously minted, and it's fair to say she's not, then the state will be paying directly.

If she was utterly loaded, then legal aid may be refused. She'd pay up front and likely reclaim if found 'not guilty' on all charges. Then again rich folk have insurance for such eventualities.

That reminds me.....I must renew my policy

Pay yourself - we are talking less than <0.001 (1/100000) wealthiest folk in the population I should imagine.

 

[JosieJo]

Yes, that's what I'm getting at.

How many searches were after the investigation started? I know quite a few were 2015?

 

[Tortoise]

Good point, it might be set in stone in the UK. In US trials, I've seen varying numbers of alternates depending on the length of the trial. As an example, the Durst trial was scheduled for 6 months but it went longer due to Covid. They had 12 alternates for that trial.

I think it's a much better system, having alternate jurors on standby for the duration of the trial.

Happened in the McStay case too, which was a 6 month trial. All sorts of unforeseen events can occur over 6 months.

 

[gc105]

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[HeatherErica]

The judge has approved the release of the confession note: Lucy Letby trial - latest: Nurse 'adamant' she's done nothing to harm any of the babies in the case as defence begins

 

[May72031]

On the other hand, irrespective of this case, I doubt she will work as a nurse again because the unprofessionalism and breach of patient privacy is not good.

Erm, I would think not!

 

[Marantz4250b]

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Holy kamoley, that looks really, really bad!

 

[Dcflag]

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I can see why the defence are going for anguish over guilt. Goes to show context is everything. What she actually has written says “I killed them on purpose because I’m not good enough”.

 

[branmuffin]

It's really a disconnect that the prosecution has to dance around. Their KC has to persuade the jury that these deaths were so obviously unnatural that they should convict this woman of murder, when most of the professionals didn't see it that way at the time, and their responses seem inexplicable in that new light. This is particularly true of the older charges where it seems like they're trying to impose a narrative on a fragmentary and imperfect record of events, from a combination of notes and fading memories. Often it's only a very brief note of a clinical interaction that puts LL as having had anything to do with some of the babies. As I said before they discard or not the notes and testimony when it suits.

He's doing a very good job of painting a very black story around it all but that's mostly what it is so far.

I have a feeling that doctors and the administration of C of C are remembering the scandal associated with the Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust and are trying to pin all their oversights regarding staffing issues, both experience-wise and level-wise, and the outmoded and dangerous equipment they still have to this day. At least as of June 2022. A little recap of the MSMT quagmire.

Mid Staffordshire scandal highlights NHS cultural crisis

The final inquiry into the care scandal at Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust has revealed a profound crisis of culture at every level of the health service. David Holmes reports.

www.thelancet.com

Mid Staffs NHS trust charged over deaths of four patients

Foundation trust that was at centre of patient care scandal faces charges relating to deaths at Stafford hospital between 2005 and 2014

www.theguardian.com

 

[kittythehare]

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I can't say what I want to say.

 

[MachinaCollecta]

Holy kamoley, that looks really, really bad!

I’ve suffered from depressive anguish myself, but these are really strong, confessional statements she’s alleged to have written here. I’d be very curious to know if LL has ever had documented mental health issues, as if she hasn’t I’m not sure the defence will be able to sell this note as being the spilling out of someone on the edge. This is dark, potentially incriminating stuff. JMHO.

 

[merrypason]

Hmmm I must admit the note seems more like ramblings than a confession BUT there could be a confession there amongst the ramblings.

The 'I killed them on purpose because I'm not good enough' is particularly interesting because it's not even a coherent thought. Almost like the 'because I'm not good enough' was added later.

Unless she had lots of other notes expressing similar anguish and introspection when the babies were dying, I feel like it's given her a 'mentally diminished' defence without her defence needing to say a word, and not actually referring to her mental state AT THE TIME of the deaths. I imagine there will be a sympathy sentiment for how much in anguish she was in. But it doesn't prove how she felt when these unexplained incidents were happening, only how she felt when she was suspected.

MOO

 

[MachinaCollecta]

Hmmm I must admit the note seems more like ramblings than a confession BUT there could be a confession there amongst the ramblings.

The 'I killed them on purpose because I'm not good enough' is particularly interesting because it's not even a coherent thought. Almost like the 'because I'm not good enough' was added later.

Unless she had lots of other notes expressing similar anguish and introspection when the babies were dying, I feel like it's given her a 'mentally diminished' defence without her defence needing to say a word, and not actually referring to her mental state AT THE TIME of the deaths. I imagine there will be a sympathy sentiment for how much in anguish she was in. But it doesn't prove how she felt when these unexplained incidents were happening, only how she felt when she was suspected.

MOO

“I killed them on purpose” or “I did this” are pretty confessional, but obviously context is what the defence can perhaps use to try and explain it away. After all, we don’t know what her state of mind was nor why she wrote these things down, so there may be an “out” in there somewhere.

Just taking LL as a person and her alleged crimes out of this, if you’d told me the police had found that note in a serial killer’s possessions I might believe you. It seems like the ramblings of someone whose inner guilt is manifesting hugely.

 

[JosieJo]

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Imo it's going to be very difficult for the defence to do anything with this its so awful seeing it as the Jury see it.
Even if its anguish is it anguish from a situation she is in or anguish from guilt ?

 

[Powermjp]

If you read the note with a bit crossed out it's hard to make out it says to me.

"I killed them on purpose because I'm not good enough to care for them + I'm a horrible evil person"

And above the word care it says something else that looks like it was written after but the sentence i put above looks like it flows in the same writing style and pen

 

[Tortoise]

I can see why the defence are going for anguish over guilt. Goes to show context is everything. What she actually has written says “I killed them on purpose because I’m not good enough”.

If you follow on to the next line I think the whole sentence is

"I killed them on purpose because I'm not good enough to care for them + I am a horrible evil person" then she's inserted "killing me" right on top of "care for them"

IMO

 

[kittythehare]

Hmmm I must admit the note seems more like ramblings than a confession BUT there could be a confession there amongst the ramblings.

The 'I killed them on purpose because I'm not good enough' is particularly interesting because it's not even a coherent thought. Almost like the 'because I'm not good enough' was added later.

Unless she had lots of other notes expressing similar anguish and introspection when the babies were dying, I feel like it's given her a 'mentally diminished' defence without her defence needing to say a word, and not actually referring to her mental state AT THE TIME of the deaths. I imagine there will be a sympathy sentiment for how much in anguish she was in. But it doesn't prove how she felt when these unexplained incidents were happening, only how she felt when she was suspected.

MOO

not a single gram of pity for all the dead babies or even one of them..