GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #32

[JosieJo]

Correction!

NJ KC coined this phrase.
But LL readily agreed.

He did yes ...but it's what Dr Gibbs said in his TV interview this week said that I loved..the way he used the phrase

 

[Dotta]

Oh possibly yes, I didn't think of this. It would also align with her comments about no one can help her. Although, if so, why work so hard to avoid any guilt - admittedly saying I'm guilty is a strong statement for her I'm sure but she actively avoided it otherwise. Difficult to comprehend the mind of such individual though!

How can she admit guilt when her parents are fighting for her?

It would destroy them.
They believe in her innocence.

JMO

 

[Taskforce88]

I was reading about how she possibly left the notes (I killed them) for police to find on purpose which makes sense considering she could have easily disposed of them but I have to ask why? Why would she even risk giving the game away by leaving them to be found?

Link to lead investigator

The notes could simply have been her feeling guilty of failing the children, feeling responsible in some way. It doesn't mean an admission of guilt that she killed them.

 

[RichardKimble]

Re the 6 cases where no verdict could be reached, I'd venture with what is now known it'll be unlikely to retry there cases, what chance a fair trial on them.

 

[Stella123]

I’m quite suspicious about the anonymous Doctor. While these other Doctors, from his team - his bosses, were trying to get LL removed - he was enabling her. Not just feeding her information after a private meeting, but continuing to have a relationship with her after she was removed. He was betraying his colleagues. Being two faced basically as he must have known they were dealing with management and had concerns of foul play.

Maybe he was hoodwinked and blinded by his relationship with her - or maybe he was scared she would tell his wife so keeping her onside.

Whatever he said in court he is a bit suspicious as he was at the heart of things when the other Doctors had grave concerns. He also put LL before patient welfare.

 

[ColourPurple]

The notes could simply have been her feeling guilty of failing the children, feeling responsible in some way. It doesn't mean an admission of guilt that she killed them.

"I killed them on purpose" says it all!

 

[Stella123]

We may never know why:

”Like most of the serial killers I have worked with and studied, Letby has been silent about what might have driven her to kill. In that respect she is like our worst British serial killer, Dr Harold Shipman, who also maintained his innocence and refused to accept any responsibility for the deaths of at least 215 of his often elderly female patients. [..] Even after an exhaustive inquiry by Dame Janet Smith, which reported in 2002, she had nothing much to say on the motivation question. Smith admitted that neither she nor her team could “gain any real insight into Shipman’s character” and had been unable to “attempt any detailed explanation of the psychological factors underlying Shipman’s conduct”.

Shipman was popular in the community in Hyde, Greater Manchester, where he practiced, and was seen by most as a trusted and “old-fashioned” doctor. When he was first arrested and charged his patients even set up a fund to pay for his legal expenses. The disbelief that such a popular doctor could also murder his patients is perhaps the fault of yet another media cliché, where serial killers are dysfunctional loners and frankly so odd that they might as well have horns on their heads and a long, pointed tail. If only it were that easy.”

Lucy Letby confirms yet confounds our ideas of a serial killer | David Wilson

Her silence is a hallmark of the serial killer, but ‘beige’ nurse did not display the usual warning signs

www.theguardian.com

If she is a narcissist she may have no insight into her behaviour. Rather than psychiatrists - maybe she should be having a psychological profiling. That could reveal the lack of empathy for others and reveal a lack of insight into what is right and wrong.

 

[Dotta]

reveal a lack of insight into what is right and wrong.

Oh
But she knows perfectly well the distinction between Right and Wrong.
Why to cover her tracks?

 

[ColourPurple]

I’m quite suspicious about the anonymous Doctor. While these other Doctors, from his team - his bosses, were trying to get LL removed - he was enabling her. Not just feeding her information after a private meeting, but continuing to have a relationship with her after she was removed. He was betraying his colleagues. Being two faced basically as he must have known they were dealing with management and had concerns of foul play.

Maybe he was hoodwinked and blinded by his relationship with her - or maybe he was scared she would tell his wife so keeping her onside.

Whatever he said in court he is a bit suspicious as he was at the heart of things when the other Doctors had grave concerns. He also put LL before patient welfare.

It was the consultants who were raising concerns and he wasn't a consultant. He was a junior doctor at the time and didn't start working there till half way through the deaths, so although he knew questions were being asked about the triplets and Baby Q I don't think he would have been aware of all of the consultants concerns about her, or their conversations with senior executives etc.

 

[Dotta]

It was the consultants who were raising concerns and he wasn't a consultant. He was a junior doctor at the time and didn't start working there till half way through the deaths, so although he knew questions were being asked about the triplets and Baby Q I don't think he would have been aware of all of the consultants concerns about her, or their conversations with senior executives etc.

So
Why did he get a confidential email?
Which he eagerly sent to LL?

 

[ColourPurple]

Maybe she wanted to be caught?
To finish this deadly game?

She doesn't struck me as a person vehemently claiming her innocence.

Her parents seemed to fight more than her.

She looked resigned as if reconciled with her fate.

JMO

I don't think she wanted to be caught, or to stop killing babies. I think she wanted to be back on the ward and was due to be too in May 2017 if the consultants hadn't managed to convince executives to involve the police!

Up until that point she had managed to convince the hospital execs that she was innocent and was a victim of bullying and I think she thought she would do the same with the police too. Probably imagined herself being invited to the police station for a scheduled chat.

I think if she'd realised that they'd turn up unannounced at the crack of dawn to arrest her and search her home, workplace and parents home, she would have got rid of all the notes and hospital paperwork!

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Quotes RSBM.

in that situation you have a lot of SOCIAL power and EMOTIONAL power as well as the obvious life or death power. Everyone with a premie in that place is totally beholden to a highly skilled NICU nurse. It would have been a huge rush for someone who had felt perennially underestimated or overlooked.

I think you are very insightful with this.

She didn't really try to show off during resuscitations or play the hero. There is a minority sub-type of Munchausen's (factitious disorder) where the individual is motivated not by wanting sympathy and attention, but by outsmarting medical professionals. I strongly believe that Letby got a thrill from "outsmarting" everybody who trusted her

Could have been both? By regularly changing methods and her strategy, she was enjoying out-smarting everyone, but she also seemed to seek sympathy in her messages to others.

"I grew up with Lucy and not a single thing that I’ve ever seen or witnessed of Lucy would let me for a moment believe she is capable of the thing’s she’s accused"

Our friends don't see every side we have. It would be so difficult to admit that a seemingly lovely friend could do this.

I wonder if she initially went into NICU nursing 100% innocently or if she had already been feeling this side of herself and purposely wanted that level of power.

 

[marynnu]

So
Why did he get a confidential email?
Which he eagerly sent to LL?

I have a vague memory that he took part in some consultant meetings as part of his professional development. This email could be linked to that.

 

[ColourPurple]

So
Why did he get a confidential email?
Which he eagerly sent to LL?

Like I said, he was aware of the questions being asked about the triplets and Baby Q, and the confidential email was in relation to review of the two triplets deaths, which he'd been present at. But he wasn't involved in raising concerns about her presence at all of the other unexpected deaths and collapses. That was just the consultants.

 

[Dotta]

"You are harbouring a murderer"

'You are harbouring a murderer': How NHS bosses appeased Lucy Letby

Hospital bosses who presided over the hospital while Lucy Letby was killing and maiming babies were repeatedly warned about her by doctors and told 'you're harbouring a murderer'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Stella123]

This does show intention to kill the third triplet

One of Letby's handwritten notes is shown to the court. It is the one which includes a draft sympathy message for Child O, Child P and another triplet.

Mr Johnson asks why a sympthy message has included the name of the surviving triplet as well as the names of Child O and Child P.

NJ: "Was that your objective, to kill all three?

LL: "No."

NJ: "Did that excite you?"

LL: "Absolutely not."

She had drafted a sympathy note for all three triplets.

The Chester paper sets out some of the cross examination.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 9 - cross-examination continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Tortoise]

Toadying. Those "troublesome Doctors" cared about their patients. While I think LL managed to manipulate the situation and distract from the deaths of the babies by her claim of being victimised, the Trust put staff grievances over the safety of patients. They should be prosecuted too.

Questions I have are - even though the Doctors tried to raise this again and again. WHY weren't post mortems done if they had concerns? That could have provided evidence much earlier, via pathologists reports.

Thank you for posting this by the way (as I couldn't read it before due to paywall).

https://archive.ph/2023.08.19-231054/https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lucy-letby-files-nurse-hospital-evidence-rkxchgqh9#selection-1525.0-1525.261

Post-mortems were conducted for six of the seven babies who were murdered.

We don't know of course if they were conducted for the further six deaths we now find out she was also present for, because we know nothing about them at this stage.

 

[Dotta]

Considering additional suspicious deaths, she seemed (allegedly) to be "out of control" ALL the time, not only at the end as NJ KC said.

Also
How STRANGE that her parents read "victim statement"!!! and not she herself at the Trust meeting.

Curiouser and curiouser

JMO

 

[d0lphin]

Sorry if this is common knowledge but were all of the victims of murder or attempted murder multiple births?

 

[Becky53]

Thank you for posting this by the way (as I couldn't read it before due to paywall).

You’re welcome