GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #32

[cottonweaver]

Well, as I've made no secret of before - TC backed LL so vociferously for other reasons. IMOO, obvs!

I've not been on WS for ages. (Only started after the verdict and then felt so angry about the case details that I had to log in)

Do you mean another romantic attachment? TC - LL? I've only just scratched the surface ( I've managed epsiodes mail podcast and another one I listened to called 'Crime Scene 2 Courtroom' )

 

[esther43]

hell yes, if it is proven that you failed to stop it when alerted.

Must be a rough weekend for Tony. Maybe he could join Philip schof for a vape..

 

[kittythehare]

From your link -

When it is appropriate to charge both corporate and individual gross negligence manslaughter​

Decisions on charge are fact-specific and none of the above precludes a prosecution involving charges of both Corporate Manslaughter and individual gross negligence manslaughter if it is merited on the evidence in a particular case.

The evidence may clearly show gross failings on the part of individuals within the company as well overall failings of the organisation including its senior management.

That's the bit.
It's what needs to happen.

 

[ColourPurple]

And this is the point! Did she?

There's been nothing to suggest that she did, other than people musing that maybe she did.

 

[Parker Knoll]

Latest from the Guardian

Lucy Letby may have harmed dozens more babies, police fear

Exclusive: Officers investigating ‘suspicious’ incidents at Countess of Chester and Liverpool women’s hospitals

www.theguardian.com

 

[marynnu]

He's not entirely insane

Not the greatest vote of confidence.

 

[kittythehare]

Sentence at 2pm tomorrow according to Sky. The morning will be taken up with house keeping and mitigation no doubt.

And Madam won't grace the proceedings, feeling them beneath her, no doubt.

A hospital source told the Mail: ‘She was not that well liked. She had an air of arrogance and could be a bit of a madam.’

Lucy Letby: Church-goer dubbed 'The Innocent One' by friends

With toys in her bedroom, doting parents and the nickname from friends 'The Innocent One', no one could have thought Lucy Letby was Britain's worst ever serial killer.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[kittythehare]

Latest from the Guardian

Lucy Letby may have harmed dozens more babies, police fear

Exclusive: Officers investigating ‘suspicious’ incidents at Countess of Chester and Liverpool women’s hospitals

www.theguardian.com

It is understood that detectives had earlier this year identified a further 40 babies who suffered “suspicious” incidents when Letby was on shift at the Countess of Chester hospital. Further inquiries meant that some of these infants were later de-prioritised by investigators, although their cases have not been dropped altogether.

By April, detectives are understood to have identified “suspicious” cases involving about 30 babies at the Chester hospital.

!
And that is even before Liverpool.
Good God.

 

[Tortoise]

On Sunday night, a government source told the Telegraph that if Letby refused to attend of her own accord she could be compelled to do so.

“Lucy Letby should be in court to hear society’s condemnation of the enormity of her crimes, expressed by the judge,” said the source. “If that requires the use of lawful enforcement, so be it. If she continues to refuse, that will only strengthen our resolve to change the law as soon as we can.” [...]

Currently, judges can order criminals to appear, and prison officers are able to use reasonable force to take them to the court. But it is believed some guards are reluctant to use force because of the risk of legal action if they are seen to have overstepped what is “reasonable”.

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[Dotta]

And Madam won't grace the proceedings, feeling them beneath her, no doubt.

A hospital source told the Mail: ‘She was not that well liked. She had an air of arrogance and could be a bit of a madam.’

Lucy Letby: Church-goer dubbed 'The Innocent One' by friends

With toys in her bedroom, doting parents and the nickname from friends 'The Innocent One', no one could have thought Lucy Letby was Britain's worst ever serial killer.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Hahaha
Deja vu from Ghislaine M case

Another Madam

 

[Marantz4250b]

I would of thought Gross negligence manslaughter would apply in this case.

If in the case of the employer I would doubt it. The employer didn't actually do anything in any of these cases to cause the deaths.

 

[iamshadow21]

And Madam won't grace the proceedings, feeling them beneath her, no doubt.

A hospital source told the Mail: ‘She was not that well liked. She had an air of arrogance and could be a bit of a madam.’

Lucy Letby: Church-goer dubbed 'The Innocent One' by friends

With toys in her bedroom, doting parents and the nickname from friends 'The Innocent One', no one could have thought Lucy Letby was Britain's worst ever serial killer.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Out here, in the delicate Australian lingo, we'd probably say she was up herself.

MOO

 

[Marantz4250b]

Sentence at 2pm tomorrow according to Sky. The morning will be taken up with house keeping and mitigation no doubt.

I'm booked in to have my car wheels swapped for temporary ones at 13:30 while mine are getting refurbished but I'll definitely find a way of watching this!

 

[kittythehare]

Cases where individual gross negligence manslaughter may be more appropriate​

The evidence may indicate that the offence was due to the gross failings of identifiable directors or managers. In such a case it may be more appropriate to charge the responsible individual(s) with gross negligence manslaughter rather than the corporate offence.

This situation is more likely to arise in the case of small and micro-companies, where the whole or very largest part of the failing is the responsibility of one person whose personal activity represents a large part of the company's undertaking. In that situation, the justice of the case can best be met by prosecution of the individual(s) rather than of the company for the manslaughter offence. It may be appropriate in such circumstances to charge the company with an offence under the Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974 (HSWA).

The effective presentation and management of the case is a relevant consideration. Combining charges of Corporate Manslaughter and gross negligence manslaughter can make the jury’s task more complex. There are significant differences in the legal elements of the offences

Corporate Manslaughter | The Crown Prosecution Service

www.cps.gov.uk

 

[Dotta]

I'm booked in to have my car wheels swapped for temporary ones at 13:30 while mine are getting refurbished but I'll definitely find a way of watching this!

Me too
At 3 pm my time
I will try to squeeze all jobs to be done till then.

Let's hope all proceed without surprises!

Justice for Babies at long long last!

 

[marynnu]

Out here, in the delicate Australian lingo, we'd probably say she was up herself.

MOO

Brummies must be closet Aussies then, 'cos we say the same.

 

[kittythehare]

I would of thought Gross negligence manslaughter would apply in this case.

Mebbe not cos

Gross Negligence Manslaughter | The Crown Prosecution Service

www.cps.gov.uk

Corporate manslaughter (including offences under Health and Safety legislation) and death in custody cases are not covered in this document. See the CPS Corporate Manslaughter Guidance.

I think they may well charge them under health and Safety , that brings it to Corporate which can also pursue individually?

Am I reading it right?

 

[Marantz4250b]

On Sunday night, a government source told the Telegraph that if Letby refused to attend of her own accord she could be compelled to do so.

“Lucy Letby should be in court to hear society’s condemnation of the enormity of her crimes, expressed by the judge,” said the source. “If that requires the use of lawful enforcement, so be it. If she continues to refuse, that will only strengthen our resolve to change the law as soon as we can.” [...]

Currently, judges can order criminals to appear, and prison officers are able to use reasonable force to take them to the court. But it is believed some guards are reluctant to use force because of the risk of legal action if they are seen to have overstepped what is “reasonable”.

MSN

www.msn.com

Indeed!

It is not difficult to make someone appear.

I can personally list dozens of people who would be more than happy to ensure a murderers appearance in the dock and who would do so without harming said defendant.

Like I say, it is an utterly ridiculous suggestion that a convicted person gets to choose how their life goes. If a convicted murderer refuses to go to prison then are they allowed to go home? Why is there a difference about coming up for sentence?

 

[CS2C]

Me too
At 3 pm my time
I will try to squeeze all jobs to be done till then.

Let's hope all proceed without surprises!

Justice for Babies at long long last!

Bring muffins

 

[Dotta]

Bring muffins

I am on a diet