GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #11

[Tortoise]

If it's a standard bath then Becky being the height she was would have been slightly too long to be laid completely flat. She would have needed to be places almost as though she was relaxing in the bath with her head resting on the end

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that's what I think. so it would have been quite difficult to angle the power saw. her head was most likely placed at the plug end I'd say, even then it would still be incredibly difficult if she was too long for the bath.

 

[Wallace]

What's with the "to my knowledge"?? She mentions it at the start of every sentence virtually

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Probably something that her solicitor has said to her.

On a separate note I found it odd that her solicitor allowed the line of questioning that the interviews were taking. The interviewer said that SH needed to prove that she wasn't involved. It's up to the Police to prove that she was, it's not up to her to prove that she wasn't. Was really surprised that her solicitor did not interrupt and point that out.

 

[Tortoise]

Just noticed that toilet is a shambles -toilet seat broke and lid on cistern not on..actually that could back up SH claims that toilets keeps breaking. Our old toilet wouldn't flu properly and we had to keep taking the lid off the cistern to raise the ballcock

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I can't get over the toothbrush and toothpaste lying right behind the loo, on that small ledge. it's just disgusting.

 

[Tortoise]

Probably something that her solicitor has said to her.

On a separate note I found it odd that her solicitor allowed the line of questioning that the interviews were taking. The interviewer said that SH needed to prove that she wasn't involved. It's up to the Police to prove that she was, it's not up to her to prove that she wasn't. Was really surprised that her solicitor did not interrupt and point that out.

me too.

 

[YidArmyRach]

I can't get over the toothbrush and toothpaste lying right behind the loo, on that small ledge. it's just disgusting.

Or their daughter's spouted cup on the bathroom floor. All kids that age will automatically try to drink out of a cup like that if they find one. The poor little girl must have been putting all sorts of germs and things into her mouth living there.

And the empty tuna tin, yoghurt pots and cans in the bathroom - that's not hoarding, that's just downright laziness! Hoarding junk is one thing, leaving festering food containers around is another entirely. And who eats in the toilet? Goodness knows what a life that little girl would have had with that lifestyle.

I don't think NM could have done what he claimed he did in that room, unless he emptied all the junk out first. There just wouldn't be room. SH has only mentioned him locking the door, not removing anything. Could he have even had the room to fix the toilet with all that rubbish in there?

 

[onthecounter]

Probably something that her solicitor has said to her.

On a separate note I found it odd that her solicitor allowed the line of questioning that the interviews were taking. The interviewer said that SH needed to prove that she wasn't involved. It's up to the Police to prove that she was, it's not up to her to prove that she wasn't. Was really surprised that her solicitor did not interrupt and point that out.

I think the interviewer meant in order to avoid facing further/ any charges, rather than in order to convince a jury.

 

[Tortoise]

I think the interviewer meant in order to avoid facing further/ any charges, rather than in order to convince a jury.

it still doesn't make sense though, I'm not sure they could charge someone with no evidence against them but suspicion.

 

[cottonweaver]

Landing upstairs, image with loft ladder. Space to use circular saw and produce pristine cuts as per patholog? See what you think.



Then here is link to all pics together, with policeman saying that bathroom was relatively clean and clear of junk compared to rest of house.
lounge and kitchen have available some floor space?
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-trial-shown-6628363

Previous pics posted of bathroom: Can't imagine how you cover all the bathroom floor and piled high junk to enable no transference of BW DNA etc onto those items.

 

[Tortoise]

I think there is even less likelihood of them being able to remove all traces of blood from the landing area. all those bannisters, the carpet, walls and crevices on the doors. at least in the bathroom you have access to water to wash it down and ceramic tiled surfaces.

 

[mrazda71]

Extracts from SH first voluntary interview Thursday 26th Feb. Bolded parts for analysis.

SH : "got in, um, heard music upstairs, assumed Becky had been in then" <snip>

SH : "We came back up, I went into the kitchen to get a drink I think it was and wash my hands, then I heard the front door slam, um carried on washing my hands, went into the living room, then I think it wasn't until a lot later on that Anjie asked me if Becky had gone out and I said 'yeah, I heard the door go, she must have gone out earlier'." <cut in video>

SH : "washing my hands I think, I heard the door slam.."

Policeman : "Ah"

SH : "..front door, um, again I didn't look at the time or think anything of it so I didn't really kind of like 'ooh, what was that?' it was just the door so Becky would've gone out."

Policeman : "Yeah, OK sorry I think I've accidentally got this in the wrong order here.."

SH : "OK" (laughing)

Policeman : "..you'll have to clarify this, so right let me just go back slightly then if I could. The door slamming then, um, you've already said you er you've got to get from the kitchen to the living room, so how far away from that front door would you have been?"

SH : "Um, about, you've got the front door, the living room and about halfway up the hallway is the kitchen, so I would have been at the sink, so, dunno distance? (laughing), a reasonable amount I'd say."

Policeman : "Yeah, OK, and immediately before this sound of the door slamming, what could you hear then?"

SH : Um I think it was just CBBs again to be honest, I was kind of more you know trying to make sure the vitamins back and getting my drink, um, NO, I heard stomping down the stairs, cos that's what made me think that Becky had left in a mood (looking) cos I said to Anjie cos I said door slammed I wasn't sure if that was the wind, I took it because there was like quite STOMP, STOMP, STOMP down the stairs I assumed, you know, she was in a bit of one of her tantrums." (laughing)

Policeman "Yeah."

1. She says we then immediately says I. Is this because that part about going into the kitchen is part of their (badly) planned story?

2. This time she mentions the door slam she "didn't think anything of it" other than that Becky had gone out.

3. This time she mentions the door slam she says she did think something else of it...that it might have been the wind. And, going onto number 4, the same sentence..

4. The order of her thoughts about the door slamming has to be a construction and not a true memory, it does not make sense that her first sense of what was happening was that it was Becky stomping down and leaving in a tantrum and that she also had wondered if it was the wind.


IMO this is proof that she is lying, and that she lied to Anjie before they left the house that day.

The "we" would be her and her daughter.

 

[sar2them1984]

that's what I think. so it would have been quite difficult to angle the power saw. her head was most likely placed at the plug end I'd say, even then it would still be incredibly difficult if she was too long for the bath.

See I was thinking that the head would need to be the other end, what with the taps there wouldn't be anyway to rest the head other than on the taps and I would have assumed this would have left some kind of marking on the back of the head

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[Tortoise]

The "we" would be her and her daughter.

yes I know. but then she switches to I.

 

[Tortoise]

See I was thinking that the head would need to be the other end, what with the taps there wouldn't be anyway to rest the head other than on the taps and I would have assumed this would have left some kind of marking on the back of the head

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WARNING GRAPHIC DETAIL

what about her head lying flat on the bottom of the bath? but that creates problems for her legs fitting. but if her head is propped up on the sloping end of the bath, I don't think he would be able to get to her neck, her chin would stop him being able to get the saw with its big plate (don't know the technical term) up against the skin.

 

[mrazda71]

yes I know. but then she switches to I.

I'm so sorry I don't understand why you're querying then?

She wouldn't say 'we came in, we washed our hands, we got a drink, we went to the living room' I imagine they came in and little went wherever ...

 

[sar2them1984]

WARNING GRAPHIC DETAIL

what about her head lying flat on the bottom of the bath? but that creates problems for her legs fitting. but if her head is propped up on the sloping end of the bath, I don't think he would be able to get to her neck, her chin would stop him being able to get the saw with its big plate (don't know the technical term) up against the skin.

Gosh I hate talking about this ....

If the bottom half was dealt with first then the top part/head could have slid down to end up flat on the bottom

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[cottonweaver]

Or their daughter's spouted cup on the bathroom floor. All kids that age will automatically try to drink out of a cup like that if they find one. The poor little girl must have been putting all sorts of germs and things into her mouth living there.

And the empty tuna tin, yoghurt pots and cans in the bathroom - that's not hoarding, that's just downright laziness! Hoarding junk is one thing, leaving festering food containers around is another entirely. And who eats in the toilet? Goodness knows what a life that little girl would have had with that lifestyle.

I don't think NM could have done what he claimed he did in that room, unless he emptied all the junk out first. There just wouldn't be room. SH has only mentioned him locking the door, not removing anything. Could he have even had the room to fix the toilet with all that rubbish in there?

A few thoughts about these photos I just posted:

We can all probably agree that this level of hoarding is often symptom of MH issues.
NM says SH gave him ultimatum about clearing some of the stuff. But we don't know the detail, or if that's true I suppose.
With this level of junk and small child I am surprised Social Services were not involved, but maybe by then SH wasn't meeting her SWorker at home ever ? ( Anyway these things incl not having a TV licence,not wanting others to see the state of how they lived with a child there, the benefits fraud that he didn't live there at all, and on and on they must have had a dreadful existence there and maybe this contributed to his paranoia/MH issues?)

If those scenes of total clutter are mirrored in the loft I doubt how they could have had a serious plan to kidnap anyone and “keep them in the attic”

Finally, if we believe NM Gran and the NM hoarding got worse when he started to see SH, how can this hoarding mean SH also had MH issues? I heard about the anti-depressants but it's unclear how long they were prescribed for her – surely not as long as they have been dating – 7 years or so. Consequently how did SH put up with his hoarding and them living “out of two rooms” as he described to the police in the Mirror article? She put up with it or knew no better or what?

I was going to add that it's no wonder they lived on take-aways, but actually the kitchen and living room are clearer than the rest of the rooms.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-trial-shown-6628363

 

[Tortoise]

I'm so sorry I don't understand why you're querying then?

She wouldn't say 'we came in, we washed our hands, we got a drink, we went to the living room' I imagine they came in and little went wherever ...

S'ok, don't be sorry

I just thought it was fragmented, as if she was not continuing on with a memory. Like it was a separate thing she had rehearsed, I was in the kitchen, I did this and that. Rather than we came back up and went into the kitchen, my daughter went into the living room and I got a drink and washed my hands when...

Another thing, presumably she would also wash her daughter's hands after they'd been in the rabbit hutch, but that's by the bye.

 

[ColourPurple]

A few thoughts about these photos I just posted:

We can all probably agree that this level of hoarding is often symptom of MH issues.
NM says SH gave him ultimatum about clearing some of the stuff. But we don't know the detail, or if that's true I suppose.
With this level of junk and small child I am surprised Social Services were not involved, but maybe by then SH wasn't meeting her SWorker at home ever ? ( Anyway these things incl not having a TV licence,not wanting others to see the state of how they lived with a child there, the benefits fraud that he didn't live there at all, and on and on they must have had a dreadful existence there and maybe this contributed to his paranoia/MH issues?)

If those scenes of total clutter are mirrored in the loft I doubt how they could have had a serious plan to kidnap anyone and “keep them in the attic”

Finally, if we believe NM Gran and the NM hoarding got worse when he started to see SH, how can this hoarding mean SH also had MH issues? I heard about the anti-depressants but it's unclear how long they were prescribed for her – surely not as long as they have been dating – 7 years or so. Consequently how did SH put up with his hoarding and them living “out of two rooms” as he described to the police in the Mirror article? She put up with it or knew no better or what?

I was going to add that it's no wonder they lived on take-aways, but actually the kitchen and living room are clearer than the rest of the rooms.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-trial-shown-6628363

I think that link has got some of Becky's house wrongly labelled as SH's. The pics of the clearer lounge and one of the kitchen I think are Becky's house, along with the rabbit hutch and conservatory ones

 

[cottonweaver]

I think there is even less likelihood of them being able to remove all traces of blood from the landing area. all those bannisters, the carpet, walls and crevices on the doors. at least in the bathroom you have access to water to wash it down and ceramic tiled surfaces.

Absolutely, you have to tape plastic everywhere. Then you still have no room to move with that saw.
I'm posting all these just cause these location shave been mooted on this thread previously.

Across all the photos I can only see the kitchen floor and part of the lounge floor or outside having the space to undertake this as well as tape off all that junk. ( He couldn't have deep cleaned all the junk afterwards and is it realistic that he could stage it after by piling junk everywhere on that bathroom floor - shampoo bottles yes that would take seconds. )

All questions, can't find a simple answer other than it was done elsewhere .... but where is the evidence for that.... and why would a lot of the empty cleaning and packaging materials be in their trash can?

 

[Tortoise]

Gosh I hate talking about this ....

If the bottom half was dealt with first then the top part/head could have slid down to end up flat on the bottom

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WARNING GRAPHIC DETAIL

I've always thought he would have removed the head first. Because it would be even worse than it already is to see the face as a constant reminder of what you are doing, and also I thought that because the neck wasn't a clean cut. He had slipped with the saw and cut into the jaw. I thought this might have been when he was there on his own after buying the saw and he cut his hand, so he realised he needed SH to help.