GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #13

[Clio]

christine megson ‏@meganewswest · 34s35 seconds ago  Bristol, England
Prosecution suggests in would have been impossible for SH to sleep through the removal of bags and items from house

 

[Clio]

ITV Becky Trial ‏@ITVBeckyTrial · 1m1 minute ago
Pros: "All very well in the world of fantasy, but not making any sense in the real world at all" #beckywatts

ITV Becky Trial ‏@ITVBeckyTrial · 1 min1 minute ago
"SH says she was fast asleep, like sleeping beauty, pricked her finger on a spinning wheel, and fallen into a deep sleep" #beckywatts

 

[Clio]

christine megson ‏@meganewswest · 51s51 seconds ago  Bristol, England
"The sexual motive and the real nature of their relationship emerged from their text messages"

 

[Clio]

Siobhan Robbins Verified account  ‏@SiobhanRobbins · 20 secs21 seconds ago
WM:The logical conclusion is SH was involved in this crime from the very start to the very end.

 

[Clio]

ITV Becky Trial ‏@ITVBeckyTrial · 49s49 seconds ago
Pros says when the kidnapping messages were found it was "almost the final piece of the jigsaw" #beckywatts

 

[ColourPurple]

Doesn't matter if she was upstairs or down - joint enterprise

But if shes not aware of it being planned and only got involved in the cver up immediately afterwards, it can't be joint enterprise. I think it's all going to hinge on whether they can prove she was involved in planning(if it existed) and the actual murder and I'm not sure they can.

 

[Clio]

christine megson ‏@meganewswest · 30s31 seconds ago  Bristol, England
"Prosecution cannot say that James Ireland and Donovan Demetrius knew what was inside the bags and cases they moved"

christine megson ‏@meganewswest · 2m2 minutes ago  Bristol, England
"But we say there is plenty of evidence they knew what they were dealing with was the proceeds of serious crime"

 

[sar2them1984]

I was thinking about this, and the prosecution in general, as I was doing the school run. Up to now, I have been disappointed with the prosecution and the rather tame nature of it, and the lack of challenging NM and SH's account of what happened. Then I started thinking that maybe the most obvious bit of evidence against them, is their own words.

I mean: for the jury to find SH not guilty, then they have to believe her story, and NM's story. So, they would have to believe that:

NM, a rather small man, badly affected with Fibro (to the point of struggling to hang up washing) was able to single-handedly overpower a fit and healthy 16 year old. They would have to believe he was able to tape her mouth with sellotape (not the easiest of tape to use) and put handcuffs on her without her fighting back - both of which actions are at least as tricky as hanging up washing. He was able to do this quickly and quietly - despite the pm evidence showing she had put up a fight, and stating it would have taken some time.

They'd have to believe she had taken 20 minutes to smoke a cigarette in the rain, with her child. That she hadn't seen or heard anything. They would have to believe she had heard stomping and a door slamming, rather than the sound of a heavy suitcase being dragged down the stairs. They'd have to believe NM was clean, tidy and not sweating when SH saw him immediately afterwards.

They'd have to believe his story that he just punched her once - regardless of the 40 injuries. They'd have to believe that NM strangled Becky, as opposed to pm evidence showing she had been smothered.

They'd have to believe this man who is always tired and in pain could carry a body downstairs, get it into his car, then carry it upstairs with no help.

They'd have to believe he cut up her body, using just one hand to operate an electric saw whilst having both eyes shut. They'd have to believe he could cut up a body, making no 'wrong cuts' and not even touching the side of the bath with the saw, not even once.

They'd have to believe that SH didn't notice any strange odour in her house, believe that this pregnant woman didn't go to the toilet often, was happy to wee in a lego bucket for days, and happy not to wash herself or her child for 3 days. This woman who was suffering from morning sickness remember.... but doesn't need the bathroom very often.

They'd have to believe that SH didn't find it odd that NM (who in her own words didn't do DIY very often) suddenly spent 3 days fixing a toilet .... that she didn't find it odd that a previously tight NM spent almost £100 on a saw to fix their toilet, then spent a similar amount on shopping. They'd have to believe she didn't find it odd that he was buying rolls and rolls of clingfilm (without seeing any of it used). They'd have to believe she didn't notice her shower curtain or bath mats suddenly go missing. She didn't question why he wasn't helping search for his stepsister, rather than fix a toilet.

They'd also have to believe she can sleep through the noise made by a number of men unloading heavy items from her loft, in the dark, right outside her bedroom ... amongst all the clutter.

They'd have to believe it was a coincidence that she decided to visit her estranged mother on exactly the day the police want to search her house, and they'd have to believe that she didn't find it odd that NM had arranged a lift home for them.

So, either the jury believe all of that ..... which frankly is laughable ...... or they don't believe that story, in which case -they would have to believe that something else had happened. So the only thing that could have happened must be the opposite of their story - that she did do it. If the story SH and MN are telling is so unbelievable, there has to be a reason for that - which is that the truth would tell a very different story, and would be easy to prove.

Is that why the defence has been so happy to let SH and MN get on with their story? After all, if they are pressed to clarify and explain things, they might come up with something more believable...... so by not grilling them, the ridiculous story is what the jurors have to debate.

Put amazingly - yes if you look at the believable facts they are few and far between. Need to gather my thoughts further on this as I have been thinking along these lines but not quite sure how to put them in written form yet

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

 

[CoverMeCagney]

This is like theatre, I would absolutely love to be in that courtroom right now.

PS. Clio, big glass of vino for you later, I'm struggling enough to read it all let alone posting it all. Thank you! :drink:

 

[YidArmyRach]

ITV Becky Trial ‏@ITVBeckyTrial · 1m1 minute ago
Pros: "All very well in the world of fantasy, but not making any sense in the real world at all" #beckywatts

ITV Becky Trial ‏@ITVBeckyTrial · 1 min1 minute ago
"SH says she was fast asleep, like sleeping beauty, pricked her finger on a spinning wheel, and fallen into a deep sleep" #beckywatts

LOL. Fits in with the fairy tale they were telling!

 

[ColourPurple]

christine megson ‏@meganewswest · 30s31 seconds ago  Bristol, England
"Prosecution cannot say that James Ireland and Donovan Demetrius knew what was inside the bags and cases they moved"

christine megson ‏@meganewswest · 2m2 minutes ago  Bristol, England
"But we say there is plenty of evidence they knew what they were dealing with was the proceeds of serious crime"

Erm Donovan didn't even move them Mr Pros!

 

[Clio]

christine megson ‏@meganewswest · 38s38 seconds ago  Bristol, England
"It makes no difference if they believed they were involved in a relevant criminal offence "

Siobhan Robbins Verified account  ‏@SiobhanRobbins · 1m1 minute ago
WM Says JI knew serious stuff coz he told a friend there would be £5k in it for him

 

[sar2them1984]

christine megson ‏@meganewswest · 30s31 seconds ago  Bristol, England
"Prosecution cannot say that James Ireland and Donovan Demetrius knew what was inside the bags and cases they moved"

christine megson ‏@meganewswest · 2m2 minutes ago  Bristol, England
"But we say there is plenty of evidence they knew what they were dealing with was the proceeds of serious crime"

I don't think that they knew what was in those bags at all - not until a later stage BUT they were guilty of hiding what they thought were stolen goods/drugs and unfortunately that is a crime. In any other case people wouldn't necessarily bat an eyelid but because of the contents of the cases I think JI et Al are eager to disassociate themselves with the crime

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

 

[Clio]

Siobhan Robbins Verified account  ‏@SiobhanRobbins · 7m7 minutes ago
Looking at JI/DD charge of assisting an offender which they deny

Siobhan Robbins Verified account  ‏@SiobhanRobbins · 6m6 minutes ago
WM:The prosecution cannot say that they knew, either of them at that point, what was actually inside those cases

Siobhan Robbins Verified account  ‏@SiobhanRobbins · 5m5 minutes ago
But whether or not they knew exactly what it was doesn't matter.

Siobhan Robbins Verified account  ‏@SiobhanRobbins · 5m5 minutes ago
They're charged with assisting someone who they knew/believe had committed an offence.

 

[Alyce]

LOL. Fits in with the fairy tale they were telling!

His references have been so clever -

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Erm Donovan didn't even move them Mr Pros!

Hear hear!!

 

[Alyce]

Erm Donovan didn't even move them Mr Pros!

Am surprised he is sort of lumping them together on this charge - the case against each of them is different surely

 

[Clio]

Siobhan Robbins Verified account  ‏@SiobhanRobbins · 5m5 minutes ago
Sorry typo: WM Says JI/DD knew what they were dealing with were proceeds of serious crime

Siobhan Robbins Verified account  ‏@SiobhanRobbins · 2m2 minutes ago
WM"sad fact that someone like James Ireland succumbes to greed".

Siobhan Robbins Verified account  ‏@SiobhanRobbins · 3m3 minutes ago
WmSays JI didn't really think that he was just helping out person suffering domestic grief

 

[Clio]

christine megson ‏@meganewswest · 49s49 seconds ago  Bristol, England
"clear that Donovan Demetrius must have known or believed that he was helping someone who had committed an offence"

Siobhan Robbins Verified account  ‏@SiobhanRobbins · 42s43 seconds ago
DD says knew nothing about it and badly let down by his brother.

Siobhan Robbins Verified account  ‏@SiobhanRobbins · 34s35 seconds ago
pros says pretty clear he help out with storage & watch over it for next few days

Siobhan Robbins Verified account  ‏@SiobhanRobbins · 41s41 seconds ago
WM:He must have known or believed that he was helping someone who had committed a relevant offence

 

[Alyce]

christine megson ‏@meganewswest · 49s49 seconds ago  Bristol, England
"clear that Donovan Demetrius must have known or believed that he was helping someone who had committed an offence"

Siobhan Robbins Verified account  ‏@SiobhanRobbins · 42s43 seconds ago
DD says knew nothing about it and badly let down by his brother.

Siobhan Robbins Verified account  ‏@SiobhanRobbins · 34s35 seconds ago
pros says pretty clear he help out with storage & watch over it for next few days

Siobhan Robbins Verified account  ‏@SiobhanRobbins · 41s41 seconds ago
WM:He must have known or believed that he was helping someone who had committed a relevant offence

BIB well unless we have missed something ( very possible ) I dont remember any evidence which could show this at all >