GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #13

[sar2them1984]

I know what you mean. We could hear his sarcasm and disbelief at their stories even through the written word, so I'm thinking it was probably a bit more forceful and scornful in person. Don't know if you've ever watched Judge Rinder but I was imagining him like that. lol

Haha so was I !!

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[Tortoise]

I'm trying to recall how long it is before all the details come out. And when will sentencing be? I need to plan my diary (and possibly my husbands lol!) so I can be home that day.

you have more than one husband? :naughty:


Yay I found the smilies!!!

 

[Alyce]

I'm trying to recall how long it is before all the details come out. And when will sentencing be? I need to plan my diary (and possibly my husbands lol!) so I can be home that day.

Assuming we have NM and SHs Barristers tomorrow ?
JI and DDs on Monday, then the Judge.
Could have Jury out as early as Monday night, at the latest Tuesday.
One week for deliberations at least ?
Then sentencing will be a few weeks later wont it ? so mid December for a sentencing day ?

 

[Beesknees]

That's what I'd been trying to explain, badly I think lol. For example, that it isn't just that SH didnt open the freezer and find body parts... it's that even without telling her not to , he was confident that she wouldn't innocently open the freezer part of their fridge freezer, looking for something to eat (maybe some of the frozen stuff they'd bought from Asda) and instead find it full of frozen body parts, freak out and call the police. Luckily he was somehow able to stop her doing this "regulate her behaviour" without saying a word.

I think that what the Pros tried to say is that if it was not known by SH he wouldn't have done anything under her nose. Since going to Becky's house, he would have gone alone and all the rest. And very well pointed.

 

[Beesknees]

It definitely has felt lacklustre at times, and short, but I reckon we'd all feel differently if it had been televised and we'd heard the whole thing. I haven't watched many live trials, Pistorius being the last one, but it made me uncomfortable how aggressive it all was there.

Even being so agressive, he walked almost Scott free! lol

 

[Alyce]

Where there are 11 jurors the verdict needs to be 10-1

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/23#l1g19

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Oh goodness, I wonder if that is going to prove tricky then and mean a long, long Jury time

 

[Clio]

yes- maybe someone who has a better grasp on some of these details can elaborate on the point WM was making here....

SH said the toilet in CML was working fine on the morning on the 20th. NM/SH then went to Crown Hill. SH stayed at Crown Hill whilst NM went to "help a friend".

Later that day, NM collected SH from Crown Hill and took her home to CML where she smelt bleach and NM said, oh yes, the toilet is blocked, you can't go in the bathroom or wtte.

How could that happen if NM had been off somewhere helping a friend all afternoon? The implication being that he had not been helping a friend, he had been cutting up Becky's body in the bathroom at CML.

SH sent a text to NM that day at 3.10pm where she says 'What time do you finish work LOL? Hugs and kisses'. Why did she do that if she knew he was helping a friend? She later changed/added to her story to the police that she thought he was at work/had gone on to work. It was that same evening they watched the "Do you want to hide a body" video. Pros is suggesting this shows they found the whole thing funny.

 

[Jinkasaurus]

I found myself visualizing SH being on the stand with Juan Martinez as the prosecutor. That would have been a thing of beauty (with US rules of pros being more aggressive, of course!).

 

[YidArmyRach]

SH said the toilet in CML was working fine on the morning on the 20th. NM/SH then went to Crown Hill. SH stayed at Crown Hill whilst NM went to "help a friend".

Later that day, NM collected SH from Crown Hill and took her home to CML where she smelt bleach and NM said, oh yes, the toilet is blocked, you can't go in the bathroom or wtte.

How could that happen if NM had been off somewhere helping a friend all afternoon? The implication being that he had not been helping a friend, he had been cutting up Becky's body in the bathroom at CML.

SH sent a text to NM that day at 3.10pm where she says 'What time do you finish work LOL? Hugs and kisses'. Why did she do that if she knew he was helping a friend? She later changed/added to her story to the police that she thought he was at work/had gone on to work. It was that same evening they watched the "Do you want to hide a body" video. Pros is suggesting this shows they found the whole thing funny.

Omg, do you think she was actually asking "what time will you have finished dismembering Becky?" That was the 'work' he was doing - and she wanted to know when the coast was clear for her to come home - hence why she was so confident her DNA wouldn't be found there, as he was doing it whilst she was out.

 

[Clio]

That's what I'd been trying to explain, badly I think lol.

LOL I nearly added And this one's for CP when I posted that tweet!

 

[Gigi-G]

I started off thinking, oh why doesnt he probe more and ask more difficult questions but there was a great post on here ( yesterday ? ) from someone and sadly I cannot remember who, but it explained in good detail as to how much the Prosecutor can do.
I think Mr M has done a great job of showing just how ridiculous both NM and SHs stories are, and he ( or any Prosecutor ) has to trust that the Jury can see the relevance of his line of questioning and how he is revealing their lies.

I think if he were to ask NM and SH how and why they killed Becky and what they were hoping to achieve, then they are not going to answer him as it would only incriminate them further. So he would end up with cant remember, dont know, type of responses and ultimately it would begin to look as though he were badgering them to no avail.
I think it's a fine line between trying to get NM and SH to reveal as much as possible but knowing that, unless they crack, they are never going to tell the truth about what happened and why they did it.
But,as was said on here earlier, if Mr M can create the situation whereby the Jury do not believe a word of what they are saying, then the only option left ( hopefully ) is for the Jury to find them guilty.

I'm hoping that after all is said and done. That BW'S family can believe that Justice was done. As they'll never know the truth behind the abismal grotesque murder of their Angel. But if I were a family member. I'd want to know the whys and wherefores who and why took 'that started out as a game' to ' teach a lesson' ended up so grisly. By a close family member(s)
It beggars belief. Even Fred & Rose West eventually spilled the beans.
So we can only hope that given time and the cold light of what they've done lays heavy on their hearts. That they feel the need to vent some truths. To put to bed all the unknown unsaid answers in black and white. For the family to understand ..... WHY?

 

[cottonweaver]

No I didn't. I said they were not part of this trial. I then edited to say that The indecent images charge might even have been dropped by which I meant it is not impossible that they have been dropped.

Sorry Clio- I either mis-read or mis- remembered your earlier post . Apologies once again.

 

[Tortoise]

Omg, do you think she was actually asking "what time will you have finished dismembering Becky?" That was the 'work' he was doing - and she wanted to know when the coast was clear for her to come home - hence why she was so confident her DNA wouldn't be found there, as he was doing it whilst she was out.

penny dropped?

the pair of them are sick to the core. joking about it.

 

[edgedweller]

SH said the toilet in CML was working fine on the morning on the 20th. NM/SH then went to Crown Hill. SH stayed at Crown Hill whilst NM went to "help a friend".

Later that day, NM collected SH from Crown Hill and took her home to CML where she smelt bleach and NM said, oh yes, the toilet is blocked, you can't go in the bathroom or wtte.

How could that happen if NM had been off somewhere helping a friend all afternoon? The implication being that he had not been helping a friend, he had been cutting up Becky's body in the bathroom at CML.

Ah, but playing devil's advocate for a second, then Mr M claimed that NM couldn't possibly have done that without SH, and she had been at CH all day...

Perhaps NM had just taped the bathroom off to prevent DNA splatter, tried with the saw and quickly realised he couldn't do it alone. 4hrs is not a long time esp as he had to go to B&Q as well.



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[Clio]

Sorry Clio- I either mis-read or mis- remembered your earlier post . Apologies once again.

No problem - I was probably rushing and could have explained better what I meant

 

[ColourPurple]

A couple more of the things we discussed previously , were summed up well today by pros:


Mr Mousley then questioned why Matthews chose to carry out the plan on a day he went to the family’s home in Crown Hill with Hoare.He told the court

“why take the risk” of having the 21-year-old in the house, who he claims would tell the police of what he did.

Mr Mousley questioned how Hoare's version of events, and her claim that Matthews was 'normal' when she saw him after he had killed Becky.

"Even Nathan would have been visibly affected and overwrought after, whether out of excitement, whether out of fear afterwards.The signs would have been clear to see, yet Shauna says nothing at all, he was on his phone and watching the television."– MR MOUSLEY, PROSECUTING


www.itv.com/news/west/2015-11-05/becky-watts-trial-shauna-hoare-was-a-confident-calculating-woman/

 

[edgedweller]

Omg, do you think she was actually asking "what time will you have finished dismembering Becky?" That was the 'work' he was doing - and she wanted to know when the coast was clear for her to come home - hence why she was so confident her DNA wouldn't be found there, as he was doing it whilst she was out.

YES, I find it totally plausible that is what she meant. I think they both grossly underestimated how difficult, awkward and tiring it would be to dismember a body. I think he was trying to do it alone on the 20th but realised he would need SH's help. Hence more bleach etc, gloves bought over the weekend.


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[MamaJoJo]

I thought that the summing up today was splendid and bought to the forefront many inConsistencies with the testimonies of key players and hopefully it's these inconsistencies and "unfortunate coincidences" which the Jury remembers.

However overall I am disappointed with the tactics of the Prosecution. I've been quite open that I think that the prosecution failed to use witnesses and evidence to their fullest potential in order to drive home the inaccuracies and sheer implausibleness (is that even a word) of some of the information provided by key players. I believe they could have used many more witnesses to show NM/SH guilt and lies - for instance they could of used AG, if not in person then a written statement giving info on times of that day/demeanour of SH/NM, statements or testimonies from KD/JP - yes they have pleaded guilty but it would give huge insight into whether JI was telling the whole truth and whether SH was around etc. Also the case - I'm suprised they didn't highlight or show how difficult it would have been to get someone of Beckys size into the case -I've seen it done on other trials.

Similarly I felt that particularly with SH, she was asked very closed questions. Some may say that was the pros plan and the least said the better but I think if certain points had been pressed further then a much more clearer picture would have been gained...

Saying that, I know from social media that Beckys family are happy with the prosecution, however I can't help feeling that their own beliefs that SH is guilty is clouding their objectivity on just how much presented evidence can prove beyond reasonable doubt that SH is guilty...I have a feeling they are going to be left feeling very wronged come verdict day..

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My sentiments, exactly.

 

[ColourPurple]

Omg, do you think she was actually asking "what time will you have finished dismembering Becky?" That was the 'work' he was doing - and she wanted to know when the coast was clear for her to come home - hence why she was so confident her DNA wouldn't be found there, as he was doing it whilst she was out.

I think exactly that. It's the same sick humour as showing NM the "Do you want to hide a body " video while the dead body of his step sister lay not far away.

 

[ColourPurple]

LOL I nearly added And this one's for CP when I posted that tweet!

Haha, when I read it I was like "YES!! Exactly!!! lol