GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #15

[Kaly99]

They had both of the defendants with the same motive for the kidnap, dislike/hatred/harm/sex - so not as NM had tried to peddle a 'well-intentioned' motive.

Is th any way we can be sure of this? I know the press is running with the sexually motivated angle, but I would've thought that would be impossible to know without having heard the jury discussion. Isn't it possible the jury believed NM's motive for kidnapping Becky, but decided he snapped and killed her in the attempt, thus making him guilty of murder but SH only guilty of manslaughter?

 

[ColourPurple]

Link to the BBC documentary about Becky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MtD5EjmKC0&feature=youtu.be

 

[ColourPurple]

Just watched the short video on this article and DG says NM lied throughout when he was in court, and the stress of having to watch him and not being able to say anything led to DG having a minor heart attack in court.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...y-blaming-giving-birth-daughter-s-killer.html

 

[ColourPurple]

I don't know if I missed this during the trial but Becky's friend Courtney who holidayed with them says NM would brag about having hit somebody with a sledgehammer.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...shyness-weight-worries-lovely-funny-teen.html

That made me think immediately of the joke SH had shared with NM on Facebook

"Nathan Matthews I have no idea why I found this soo funny but did xoxo"
Is there a non sexual way to eat a lollipop?
Smash it with a hammer and eat the remain

I really wouldn't be surprised if there are other crimes they are linked to.

 

[Ironside]

I totally believe this story - Retribution did say they were pathological liars.

Becky Watts killer Shauna Hoare faked having cancer and lied about being pregnant, former classmate claims

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-killer-shauna-hoare-6815398

 

[ColourPurple]

After hearing the statement from Becky's mother saying that it is important to listen to teenagers and don't ignore or dismiss what they tell you - and if they are worried about something take your time to listen to them .......... well for the first time I am wondering if NM and SH were actually planning to "scare" Becky (I mean if it was a sexual assault, it would scare her), rather than kill her, because they were totally confident that she wouldn't tell on them, or she wouldn't be believed. Maybe this time she threatened to tell someone different - such as her boyfriend - and they panicked.

I wonder exactly what Becky had told people in the past, and what had been dismissed? And I wonder if this wasn't the first time that NM and SH had done something to Becky.

That particular comment was loaded with meaning in my opinion.

I only heard about her telling her therapist and her best friend that she was scared of NM but maybe she'd mentioned things to family members too

 

[ColourPurple]

I totally believe this story - Retribution did say they were pathological liars.

Becky Watts killer Shauna Hoare faked having cancer and lied about being pregnant, former classmate claims

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-killer-shauna-hoare-6815398

I noticed another article yesterday worded it that she "claimed" to have been attacked on the way to school. Thought it was a funny way to word it rather than just saying she had been attacked.

 

[ColourPurple]

A few comments about SH

At school she had become a compulsive liar and earned a reputation for being a “slag”.


A former school pal said: “She was always the one getting picked on. She was a fantasist.

Shauna started at The Grange school in nearby Warmley and told her trial how she was raped by a stranger one morning as she walked to class.


Her former schoolmate said she struck up a bizarre relationship with perv teacher Timothy Arthur, 59 - handed a suspended sentence last year after he was caught with thousands of indecent images of kids on his computer.


The friend said: “She used to go and talk to him. She would go and sit down and speak to him during every lesson when we had him. He used to teach us maths sometimes. Most people thought that was weird.”

One of her first boyfriends, Rory Lewis, now 23, told The Sun: “She was a lovely girl — very down to earth and caring.


“She was always wanting to make friends and could also be quite flirty.


“I think she must have fallen in with the wrong crowd. She could be easily influenced.”

The friend added: “I used to speak to her a bit but she was very stuck in her own world.


“When she first started school she was quite quiet and quite fun. She would sneak out for with us.


“But then one day she just switched. She started getting really mouthy and abusive to people.


“She became horrible and she clearly didn’t give a ***** about herself. I think by then she had got together with Nathan. I think he had control over her.”

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...killers-would-have-struck-again-says-dad.html

 

[bos]

I've not been able to post during the day recently and have only managed to catch up in the evenings ( though I was stunned to hear that the verdicts had been returned when I was sitting in the car outside my daughter's school at 3pm). The right result I feel though I can't help but feel Becky's family won't have closure; there are too many whys and lies imo.

I was one of the people earlier in the trial who couldn't get their head around the lack of hard evidence against SH and therefore how she could be convicted of involvement beyond reasonable doubt, although my heart was saying she was involved.

Eventually, aided by the discussion here and the Judge's instructions, I was able to see that the sheer number of "coincidences" explained away may not have been impossible individually, but common sense DID make them improbable in totality. Funnily enough, I think the piece of evidence that finally tipped the scales for me was the fact that SH googled Becky Watts missing and her & NM's names.

 

[Tortoise]

Is th any way we can be sure of this? I know the press is running with the sexually motivated angle, but I would've thought that would be impossible to know without having heard the jury discussion. Isn't it possible the jury believed NM's motive for kidnapping Becky, but decided he snapped and killed her in the attempt, thus making him guilty of murder but SH only guilty of manslaughter?

morning kaly,

obviously (sorry!) we don't know how the jury discussed this, so it is pure guesswork, but to have convicted SH on the kidnap charge I think the following might have played a part in their decision -

1. They didn't believe a single word she said
2. They believed that they went there with a joint purpose to kidnap
3. SH revealed her dislike of Becky and no sadness or grief after her death - she played a cover up game (with NM) to AG and DG an hour afterwards. That is shocking IMO.
4. They had the sexual motive in the prior sexual experimentation with a female friend and the kidnap texts - I doubt very much whether these played no part in their decision on this.
5. His stated motive seems likely to be one plotted by them both to get him a light sentence, knowing no-one can 'prove' otherwise - make it seem like he had no malicious intent and it was an accident - he is unlikely ever to reveal a sexual element or intent to kill.
6. He has this massive collection of films and pictures, and addiction, and has admitted using prostitutes because he needs this outlet for his sexual frustration he can't satisfy in his relationship with SH.

I cannot believe his story, of that I am sure, so I doubt all 11 of them did.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

For what is clear now is that the seeds of that killing were sown long ago, something Becky would have been aware of when she posed uneasily for that picture.
By then she knew what sort of a person her stepbrother was – if not what he was capable of.
Vain and socially inadequate, Matthews bitterly resented Becky’s position in the family household, claiming that she took her father and stepmother – his real mother – for granted.
~~
But perhaps it is the following piece of self-assessment that is closest to the mark: ‘You don’t corner a rat in a corner, because they attack.’
Clearly, in Matthews’ eyes, it was he who was the victim.
~~
In legal argument ahead of the trial it was also claimed that when Becky was just eight, he made an inappropriate pass at her, touching her thigh over her clothes.
Two of her friends complained of similar contact at the same age.
~~
Hoare, who is no longer pregnant, claimed she had no idea what her boyfriend was going to do or had done – even though she was just yards away from him when he killed Becky, then cut up her body.
But prosecutor William Mousley QC rejected this version of events, telling the jury that Hoare was involved from start to finish and had presented herself as ‘confident and calculating’.
‘Again, not a flicker of emotion in the whole time she was in the witness box,’ he said. ‘A very cool, one might say very cold individual.’


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...isted-soul-Nathan-Matthews.html#ixzz3rGnMVdF1

A well written article, imo. NM and SH are the perpetual victims, not an ounce of common sense or humanity between them. NM felt the world owed him a living and Becky ultimately was going to pay dearly for his own perceived shortcomings and inadequacies. SH jumped on board with NM, enjoying the attention and increasingly sick fantasies. Both compulsive liars who reveled in their duplicity, showing one side to the family and another when alone. These two together created hell on earth!

 

[ColourPurple]

DG confirms Becky told friends she was scared of him but that she didn't tell them (the family)

Darren said of Shauna, a serial fantasist who once lied about having cancer: “I got a bad feeling about her right from the start


“I asked Nathan a couple of times, ‘Why are you looking at girls this age?’ But he was in his 20s. We didn’t have any control over him.”

Meanwhile, Becky struggled with eating disorder anorexia at secondary school and was bullied over her weight, dropping to 5st aged 12.


But when she began eating properly and gaining pals and a boyfriend, Matthews’ nasty side surfaced. Darren recalled: “The older Becky got the more jealous Nathan got.


“He started jumping out on her. We thought it was just a bit of fun but he wanted her to be scared of him. She told friends that she was frightened, but she did not tell us.”

Becky's mother Tania says she was begging to move back in with her.

“Becky was begging to move back in here".

DG believes they planned the attack

Darren, a sheet metal foreman, said: “They’d been planning it for months. They knew I worked. They knew Anjie had to go to hospital regularly. They waited until Becky was on her own and did it.

Anji confirms the note from NM didn't include an apology

During the case Anjie was also handed a note written by her son from prison. But she said: “It didn’t apologise, it just said that he had to be careful about what he could say.”

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...he-blamed-wife-for-birth-of-her-murderer.html

 

[MissyLDT]

http://m.bristolpost.co.uk/know-truth-happened-Becky-Watts/story-28162457-detail/story.html

I think this one answers our previous questions regarding the Watts family statement yesterday. Seems like Becky had highlighted concerns to them.

 

[Clio]

Interview with PW, Becky's nan

In an exclusive interview with the Bristol Post, Pat Watts said she believed the whole truth about what happened to Becky has not come out during the five-week trial at Bristol Crown Court.

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/know-t...tory-28162457-detail/story.html#ixzz3rGx5ByDf

"If we had any idea what was going on, we would have done something," she told the Bristol Post. "She was trying to tell us things were bad, but no one was listening to her."

 

[Alyce]

Link to the BBC documentary about Becky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MtD5EjmKC0&feature=youtu.be

Thanks for that link CP. I watched last night, live, but the BBC link went down part way through and they didnt manage to get the missing footage back for us, so it was good to be able to watch the whole programme.

One thing I noticed, which made me gggrrr, was the comment that Becky was missing for 21 days. I do wish reporters would get their facts straight on such things.

I felt so sad when DG said he still listens out for the front door at 10pm, and Becky coming home.

 

[ChuckieD]

The lad I'm working with today went to school and was good friends with NM for quite a while but they fell out.

 

[ColourPurple]

http://m.bristolpost.co.uk/know-truth-happened-Becky-Watts/story-28162457-detail/story.html

I think this one answers our previous questions regarding the Watts family statement yesterday. Seems like Becky had highlighted concerns to them.

Her nan has also pondered if there was another crime scene

"The idea that he cut her up alone in the bathroom, with his eyes closed, and did no damage, is ridiculous," Becky's maternal grandmother said.


"The forensics found nothing and spent a long time in there, and so you have got to wonder whether it did happen like that and if everything was done there. If it was done elsewhere, I just can't image where."

www.bristolpost.co.uk/know-truth-happened-Becky-Watts/story-28162457-detail/story.html#ixzz3rGycWIk4

 

[Martha Morris]

To my fellow Brits (and others) who have contributed to this thread, I just wanted to say that although I haven't posted until now, I have been logging in and reading on a daily basis and Websleuths/this thread has been my first port of call before any other media.

I personally had no doubt SH would be convicted - their story in relation to her level of involvement was pure unadulterated BS from start to finish and I knew the jury would see through it, but I can understand the doubts and concerns. I've had them myself in other cases, but this one, for some reason, I was stone cold certain she would get convicted. I also had a feeling it would be very quick and indeed it was. I don't have the gift of clairvoyance by the way, but it's just sometimes in certain cases you get that gut feeling of how it's going to go, and this was one of those cases.

Anyway, thanks again to everyone who participated on this thread. It's rare to see a British case at the top of 'new posts' on Websleuths ... but you've kept this one front and centre - so thanks to you all!

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Did we ever find out if the verdicts were all unanimous?

I just have visions of them walking into the jury room and being asked "who thinks they're guilty?". All hands go up. Doesn't sound like there was any room for doubt at all!

 

[CoverMeCagney]

The lad I'm working with today went to school and was good friends with NM for quite a while but they fell out.

And what's his take on it all?