GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #4

[MamaJoJo]

I'm no law expert so forgive me but, IF police believed that SH knew what NM had done and she'd helped in some way wouldn't she ad charged with a more serious offence than PTCJ?

From what I've read, PTCJ can carry a life sentence. Seems pretty serious to me.

ETA: just looked for the article I read earlier about sentencing PTCJ and can't immediately find it. I did find the article that everyone referenced a few pages ago which says 4 to 36 months.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/perverting_the_course_of_justice/

This link has some interesting case descriptions in addition to the one quoted below...

Concealing Evidence
R v Gonsalves [2008] 1 Cr. App. R. (S) 40
The appellant's partner having murdered a man, she helped to clear up potentially incriminating items before dialling 999 and asserting that two foreigners had committed the murder. She maintained her story (which it was accepted she had told at her partner's instigation) for several days. Sentence reduced to 18 months imprisonment.

Let me keep looking...

 

[Alyce]

They were not related at all by blood.

I don't think he is married; not that that stops people from being sexually attracted to someone else.

I dont think they are married either, not seen any reporting of that........plus, because of the age gap, NM and RW did not grow up in the same household, so she would possibly not be viewed by NM the way a brother would see a sister....

 

[ChuckieD]

I'm no law expert so forgive me but, IF police believed that SH knew what NM had done and she'd helped in some way wouldn't she ad charged with a more serious offence than PTCJ?

We know very little so it's difficult to say. I'm no law expert either but the Police do have to convince CPS that they have a case, maybe that's the best they could go for at the moment. Just because she's been charged with one thing it doesn't mean she can't later be charged with something else and remember there are 5 other people still in custody right now over this. I find it impossible to believe six 20-somethings would ruin their lives, risk never seeing their kids again, cover for the brutal murder of an innocent child just to be a good mate. I think there is a lot more to this story. Time will tell.

Probably did her a favour charging and remanding her anyway, I wouldn't want to be her out on the streets at the moment.

 

[Insp.Dots]

Warmley could be his last officially registered address - ie, on the electoral roll - so that would be the one used for court purposes.

But, I was trying to come up with an explanation for why we have not heard about any search at this address, and the only thing I could think of was that there are new tenants in the property and it could be proved that there was no possibility of NM having been at that address over the crucial period.
Of course there could have been a search which was not reported ? and it could be that a family member - father, brother ? lives at Warmley and NM has kept this address as his official one.

There are 2 others with same surname at Warmley address so could be his parents. Also Warmley is further away and it may be that press just didn't get wind of any search. Other than possibility of benefits claim it could also be NM thinking ahead and hoping to to bail, as I would think the landlord in CML would swiftly start an eviction process.

 

[mrazda71]

From what I've read, PTCJ can carry a life sentence. Seems pretty serious to me.

Where are you getting this life sentence for PTCJ from? I've seen it quoted a few times but here it says: 4 - 36 months.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/perverting_the_course_of_justice/

 

[MamaJoJo]

Where are you getting this life sentence for PTCJ from? I've seen it quoted a few times but here it says: 4 - 36 months.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/perverting_the_course_of_justice/

I know! Weird!! I'm still looking for the article I read earlier today. Give me a sec...

 

[Hexenb]

Easier to dispose of small pieces than a whole adult body.

It seems like she was more stored than disposed of maybe he was just waiting for the right time to dipose of the body parts

 

[MamaJoJo]

Where are you getting this life sentence for PTCJ from? I've seen it quoted a few times but here it says: 4 - 36 months.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/perverting_the_course_of_justice/

Here is what I read earlier...

Perverting the course of justice
The Offence
3. Perverting the course of justice is a serious offence. It can only be tried on indictment and carries a maximum sentence of life imprisonment. The offence is committed where a person:
does an act (a positive act or series of acts is required; mere inaction is insufficient)
which has a tendency to pervert and
which is intended to pervert
the course of public justice.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/perverting_the_course_of_justice_-_rape_and_dv_allegations/

This link is specific to making false allegations in either rape or DV cases. I assumed that a PTCJ charge would carry the same sentence across the board. I must be wrong.

 

[Tealgrove]

If he didn't have a connection to the property he would not have given the address.

It's probably a family connection.

Could also be where his mail is delivered. I get the feeling he didn't really have stable roots put down. The address where that he gave in court is his official address however, he lives with SH. He can't officially live with SH because her benefits would be adjusted if he ACTUALLY LIVED THERE.

That's my guess.

 

[gia2]

Then you hold your hands up and say 'I messed up' and face the consequences of your actions, you don't sit and watch a family in utter turmoil and go about your life knowing that your partner murdered and chopped up his little 16 year old step-sister. It's unforgivable, in my opinion. No matter how it's painted. If he is guilty and if she covered for him I hope she's hit with the full force of the law. It's abhorrent. That's just the way I feel about it. Luckily, we all have different opinions ;-)

I didn't say that it is forgivable or that she shouldn't face the full consequences for her actions. I said it is an understandable reaction. Not understandable from a moral perspective, but as a psychological reaction to such an extremely distressing event. Sadly this type of reaction is not uncommon, there are so many instances where family or friends have assisted an offender in some way. That doesn't make it any less terrible though of course.

We don't know what she has actually done to assist him at this stage, but I certainly think she should be held fully accountable for everything she has done. Whatever she did do is certainly exasperated by the fact she has a relationship with Becky's family.

 

[Wallace]

Ummmm, exactly! I can't imagine any solicitor or barrister allowing him to lie either. But he told the court he lives in Warmley. I'm not the one who said he lives there, HE is the one who gave that address. So, why did he give that address? I'm not sure why you are directing your sarcasm at me. I'm just pointing out that we have been given two different addresses for him -- the one on Cotton Mill Lane with his girlfriend and child, and now the one in Warmley. Which is the right address? Folks here are saying he lives on Cotton Mill Lane but he's probably not supposed to because of government subsidies, so he gave his old address. But if that's his old address, and he doesn't currently live there, then he has lied to the court. Maybe Warmley is where he really lives, or maybe he has a family connection to the address. Either way, whether it's where he currently lives, or whether he has some family connection to the address, it goes back to my earlier post wondering why we haven't heard about a search of this Warmley residence.

If I'm the only one who thinks that's strange, so be it. I'll drop it now.

As someone else already said there are legitimate reasons for giving an alternative address to the court.

Please don't stop throwing out ideas but this one is a dead end.

He has not lied to the court.

The address may be a friend or family member or actually his official address (as opposed to where he sleeps).

It may or may not have been searched. The Police have not overlooked it.

Warmley is a small place, if the Police trucked up to a property in numbers (like they have every where else) someone would have noticed. Unlike many of the other areas where property has been searched a Police presence is less common. It would be far more likely to be noticed and gossiped about.

 

[mrazda71]

Could also be where his mail is delivered. I get the feeling he didn't really have stable roots put down. The address where that he gave in court is his official address however, he lives with SH. He can't officially live with SH because her benefits would be adjusted if he ACTUALLY LIVED THERE.

That's my guess.

Is it actually known that she was in receipt of benefits? Or is that just an assumption based on stereotypes or facebook? Cause on Facebook my job is listed as one of Santa's Helpers

 

[ChuckieD]

Is it actually known that she was in receipt of benefits? Or is that just an assumption based on stereotypes or facebook? Cause on Facebook my job is listed as one of Santa's Helpers

I didn't assume anything. Just gave an example of why NM's address was different. No idea if she has a job or not. That said, his job's been mentioned, her's hasn't.

 

[Alyce]

Is it actually known that she was in receipt of benefits? Or is that just an assumption based on stereotypes or facebook? Cause on Facebook my job is listed as one of Santa's Helpers

I think the benefits angle was given as one possible explanation for why NM and SH have declared different addresses.
They have been together for 7 or more years and even assuming they didnt live together in the beginning ( she being 14 or so ) it would have been logical to believe they did live together now, after such a time together and with having a 2 year old child.

 

[Electric Sheep]

Could also be where his mail is delivered. I get the feeling he didn't really have stable roots put down. The address where that he gave in court is his official address however, he lives with SH. He can't officially live with SH because her benefits would be adjusted if he ACTUALLY LIVED THERE.

That's my guess.

My additional guess is that he is also on welfare (unemployment) so it would be more likely to come to the attention of the welfare if he was registered as living at that address. Dole + cash in hand "ad hoc" delivery + single parent allowance + council house + other single parent benefits = relatively comfortable life with very little effort.

 

[Wallace]

I think the benefits angle was given as a possible explanation for why NM and SH have declared different addresses.
They have been together for 7 or more years and even assuming they didnt live together in the beginning ( she being 14 or so ) it would have been logical to believe they did live together now, with having a 2 year old child.

I believe the place on CML is a 4 bedroom house.

Since April 2013 there has been a deeply unpopular system know as the bedroom tax. It penalises people who have spare bedrooms, 2 or more spare rooms would lead to a 25% reduction in rent benefit. If they were trying to play the benefits system it would be more likely that they would each have smaller homes.

 

[Foxymona]

I wonder if SH is being put under a lot of pressure for a plea deal- say all you know and all involved and you can still have a life after you served your time and see your daughter?

I wonder if the other 5 were landed in it by no way their own fault- I mean look at the fb of a lovely clean house, clean child, happy family snaps- how would they possibly be mixed up in this all- but they have been arrested and detained- and the time extended- I don't know if that is because the case is high profile and the police are taking no chances.

And then I wonder if this is the tip of the iceberg and something far far more sinister is going on that is yet to come to light... This story keeps on getting more and more horrific- and I don't think it is going to stop anytime soon. We will know more when the other 5 are either charged or released.

I would say NW is saying nothing- but someone is talking alright and my guess would be one of the young women/ mothers. They are very young and very very out of a situation they can control.

IF I was with someone and adored them and had a family with them and they committed a crime like this- I don't know how I would react. I would like to think I would pick up the phone- but I can see how I would be duped into lying, or play along out of fear. BUT if that was the case- at this stage I would be telling absolutely everything I know and fully cooperating. No other action would make sense.

I still can not find a link between NW and SH- however I read somewhere that NW did know KD - but I can not remember for the life of me where or how- does anyone know?

It is so hard to speculate on anything when we don't know when she was murdered, where she was murdered, the motive, where she was dismembered, and even if her tech devices were found. There is a lot more to this story to come out. I have a load of completely different plausible theories.

 

[Foxymona]

AND I think drugs play a part here somehow!

 

[katydid23]

Why would NM be jealous of BW?

There is sometimes a lot of jealousy in blended families. Many times the older kids get jealous of the way their father [or mother] 'settles down' and parents their 'new' family. Often, the parent was not a good one in their first marriage, due to being young, poor, addicted, etc. But they may mature, become more responsible and commit themselves to their second family. This often angers the older half-sibs or step sibs, to see the father suddenly becoming the parent they always longed for. And they often blame it on the step sibling. And become spiteful. JMO

 

[Alyce]

I also read somewhere that NW knew KD ..and I also cant remember where - because I have read so much these past two weeks ...but I am fairly sure the comment implied they knew each other, but not as close pals.