GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #8

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  • #741
I really don't see what you're getting at here. A door that can't be opened without a key is effectively locked. If it was a Yale-type lock, it could have been left "on the latch" so that an expected visitor could push it open. This wasn't the case, so they retrieved the key that had been left for them. I don't see any contradiction here.

why did NM phone then to ask if Becky would be in to let them in, OR in the alternative (ie if Becky would not be in) if AG would leave a key out?

would Anjie leave a door unlocked for any stranger to walk in and possibly harm Becky or burgle the house?
 
  • #742
What I would like to know is this: WHY were they even going round to the house in the first place? We know they normally went Mon/Weds/Fri to help with (ahem..) housework. So why did they even go round that Thursday? They knew AG was going out and DG was at work. SH (as AG's main carer) would know she had a hospital appointment, and how long she'd be out for. They even asked if Becky was home, didn't they? So given they weren't "friends" with Becky, why did they even turn up there?

Has this been covered? I've been out of the loop all day!
 
  • #743
I'll leave you peeps to it. Perhaps it is just tiredness I don't know but it certainly hasn't been too friendly a reception tonight.
 
  • #744
I'm not suggesting it will convict anybody. but the devil is usually found in the detail and it is small details like this that show whether a person who may be lying has not thought through their version completely before speaking, and it may not tie in with another person's version. I raised it because SH was clear she went straight to the kitchen and outside with the child and now I see Nathan says SH didn't go straight outside, she went into the lounge with him.

Perhaps they didn't get their stories quite so straight as they thought they had.

Maybe so, but you will always find small variations like this when any two people give an account of some mundane event.
 
  • #745
What I would like to know is this: WHY were they even going round to the house in the first place? We know they normally went Mon/Weds/Fri to help with (ahem..) housework. So why did they even go round that Thursday? They knew AG was going out and DG was at work. SH (as AG's main carer) would know she had a hospital appointment, and how long she'd be out for. They even asked if Becky was home, didn't they? So given they weren't "friends" with Becky, why did they even turn up there?

Has this been covered? I've been out of the loop all day!

The jury at Bristol Crown Court watched Hoare explain that they were planning on returning a cake tin to Matthews' grandmother Margaret because she was taking his mother Anjie Galsworthy to a hospital appointment.

http://www.westerndailypress.co.uk/...tory-27967420-detail/story.html#ixzz3pL7iHP3K
 
  • #746
why did NM phone then to ask if Becky would be in to let them in, OR in the alternative (ie if Becky would not be in) if AG would leave a key out?

would Anjie leave a door unlocked for any stranger to walk in and possibly harm Becky or burgle the house?

Well, AG didn't leave the door unlocked. Perhaps she wasn't sure if Becky might go out again, or might not hear them if she was upstairs listening to music, so she left the key anyway.
 
  • #747
G'night Tortoise.
And I agree with you. It's the differing details in the Statements he did, she did n matching things up. Will eventually add up and give the Jurors their Verdict.
Lots to come yet though. So don't hold your breath.

And it has been very tense around today.
Sending Peace, Love and Light to you all.
Namastè ☆
 
  • #748
why did NM phone then to ask if Becky would be in to let them in, OR in the alternative (ie if Becky would not be in) if AG would leave a key out?
<snip>

I asked this a few days ago. Possible reasons that a key was left in the recycling box is that there was no guarantee that Becky would hear them knock (as she was planning on sleeping/taking a shower) or maybe she would have gone out again by the time they got there.
 
  • #749
Thanks, Clio. I'd forgotten that bit. Not exactly a reason to be there for 8 hours though!

I've just had a brainwave (it's probably been discussed ages ago and I've forgotten!). Becky was a school girl and it was the half term holidays...... so I'm swaying towards kidnapping gone wrong, and that NM and SH planned it together. "We'll just say we heard her go out, and we'll take grandmas cake tin back so we have a reason to be seen there". They'd talked about it, they clearly discussed hating Becky, I think they saw the one opportunity when Becky would be home alone - half term, no school, AG out, possibly a rare occurrence. They knew she was home alone and the coast was clear. If it's true he had a bag, handcuffs and a stun gun in his car that points to kidnapping rather than murder. He's tried to keep her quiet, and she's died, to what extent that was intentional I don't know but I'm not sure it was premeditated murder. I reckon he then told SH immediately that it had gone wrong, and therefore the rest of it was planned and carried out together, or at least with SH's full knowledge. They had several days to tighten up their story so he takes all the blame and she gets to keep the kids.
 
  • #750
I'm with Jinkasaurus. I'm mega confused about their relationship. I'm more confused about their family unit as I'm not the tidiest of people n having grown up children still at home and a hubby with many hobbies. But I can still get to my bed. Still get in my bathroom kitchen and other rooms without wondering what might attack me on my travels. How on earth can they be parents to a toddler living in a bedroom cluttered with everything?
Where would the toddler play eat or sleep?
Arghhh what a sad existence. :'(

And remember they were expecting twins when those photos were taken. At some point a midwife and health visitor would have been paying them a visit. Surely they would have had to have sorted out that mess before the twins were born, or I could imagine that social services would have been involved.
 
  • #751
why did NM phone then to ask if Becky would be in to let them in, OR in the alternative (ie if Becky would not be in) if AG would leave a key out?

would Anjie leave a door unlocked for any stranger to walk in and possibly harm Becky or burgle the house?

Isn't it strange that neither SH or NM had a key anyway, considering they were Anjie's carers. Wouldn't they need access in an emergency, like if she had fallen couldn't get up again (but had her mobile with her to call for help). I would have thought if Anjie was bad enough to need a carer, there might be times that getting out of bed, going downstairs and opening the door would be difficult if not impossible - so strange that her carer didn't have a key.
 
  • #752
Also I mean. Come on who just casually out of the blue orders 2 Stun guns?
Why would anyone purchase them if it wasn't for something 'ahem' dodgy.
They could of been charged with 'Going equipped'
Pre meditated? Somewhat. For something. At sometime.
As CovermeCagney just said. It was half term. And the time was right. Hmmm?
Sorry rambling... out loud
 
  • #753
I wonder who's really the manipulator and dominant one in this relationship.

Ha. It does makes you wonder.

To me, he comes off as childish. Mentally immature. Has temper tantrums. Impulsive. Rude. Disrespectful. All based on his interaction with the investigators. I also see some remorse and shame when discussing what had allegedly happened. But somebody like that can also be easily manipulated because he is predictable and lacks individuality and mental self-control. He's not much of a thinker. He's more a do-er and a follower. An easy puppet. Its easy for a more level headed and poised individual (in the mind), a tactician and puppet master, to control the situation and to control an impressionable individual such as the male suspect and their actions. Who do we know that is poised and controlled under otherwise stressful situations?

Maybe: The male suspect is an impulsive meat head. The female suspect may be more of a puppet master throughout their relationship. Bouncing ideas off him. Planting ideas into him. Over the long term, you can shape somebody like that to do your bidding and be the controlling one behind closed doors. He may be older, and to friends and family it can be portrayed on the outset as the controlling one because he is also presumably obnoxious to boot, but the strong silent one sitting quietly in the corner is still the one who's running the show and who's really in control of the relationship, but have the benefit of playing victim.

When it comes to the crime, maybe there are shared interests in their joint venture. One is jealous of someone and feeling generally petty. The other may be angry at past actions of that same person. Over time, a long term psychological campaign may result in the puppet springing into action.

Just because the male suspect is older by way of age, it doesn't mean anything. Just because someone was younger when they first got into the relationship with an older person, doesn't mean the younger one is immediately the sweet innocent one being abused. They both know what they're doing. Some may even argue the younger one has her head on tighter than the older one, who's maturity isn't all there. To me, their relationship appears to be a symbiotic one. They feed off each other. Both get what they want out of it.

What are we observing now in this case anyway? The male takes all the blame for the entire crime. Continues to protect the female suspect in the legal sense of not casting any blame onto her. The "abused" and "submissive" female suddenly springs into action and produces a rap sheet full of deplorable behaviors and talking points against the male suspect.
 
  • #754
Angers me also him saying to the police to not say SH name. Telling the police how to do their job, they should have said eh no we'll say what we have to, not bowing down to his demands.

The reason i think he didn't want SH's name mentioned is because she was fully involved and he didn't want to run the risk of slipping up. He was getting it all straight in his head, some liars can't look people in the face, NM is a perfect example.

Police probably don't want to wind him up, so they will gladly play along. He's a big baby and incredibly impulsive. If you pushed him any further, he might flip out into violent rage. There were moments in there where I was afraid of a physical confrontation from the suspect. You want to get information out of him, not do psych warfare on him and destroy his mind and push him over the edge, so they won't purposely wind him up and will generally try to appease him. And it appears it will be easy to do psyche warfare on this individual (He's lucky hes not being water-boarded as he will crack so quick). He seems impressionable and very mentally weak and easily manipulated. If the police kept on pushing his buttons, he will lose it. This also sheds light on this character, that he is predictable and seemingly easy to control.

I agree. There could be a lot of reasons why he didn't want the female suspect's name mentioned.

If she is truly innocent, then it could be shame as to why he didn't want her name brought up, because he can't see himself to look at her again.

If she was not innocent at all, it could be because bringing up her name reminds him and brings him back to the dark place where she is in control of him and manipulating him and nagging him into doing things. Its sort of like "Stop bringing up the name. Note to self: Yes, I know my agreed upon role here already. I am taking full rap for it like we discussed. OK, lets get on with it. Stop reminding me."
 
  • #755
Well, AG didn't leave the door unlocked. Perhaps she wasn't sure if Becky might go out again, or might not hear them if she was upstairs listening to music, so she left the key anyway.

Becky's friend that she spent the night with the night before her murder said they'd been up all night listening to music etc and were tired so maybe AG locked the door and left the key because she thought Becky might go to sleep and either wouldn't hear the door or not to disturb her.

http://m.bristolpost.co.uk/Becky-Wa...saw-teenager/story-27947152-detail/story.html
 
  • #756
I'm SURE she has mentioned her child but it will have been bleeped/edited out for anonymity of her child.

Also, we're only seeing/reading/hearing odd sentences and sound bites from the trial. We're not hearing everything and we're not hearing what questions they were asked for the main part.

Well, I hope the both of them have mentioned their child at some point. Could you imagine if they haven't?!?!

I guess what I was trying to point out is that in the snippets of testimony and interviews we have been privy to there hasn't been mention of their child or SH's pregnancy. For instance, SH says she came in from the back yard after her "ciggie" and feeding the rabbit and washed her hands and grabbed a glass of water. No where in that statement does she mention their daughter. Did she also wash her daughter's hands? Did she dry her hair off from the rain or hang up her coat? Grab her a snack? Did she leave her daughter outside? Given what was transpiring upstairs, if SH was involved, did she even know where her daughter was? Anything? If the police asked you to recount an event such as SH was, wouldn't your child factor into the story?

I just really think it's weird that neither of them mention their daughter in any of the situations they've spoken about. Directly in the statements that they have made, it seems implausible that when recounting the events off that weekend, their little girl wouldn't be referred to once. My children are woven into my life. I can't walk from one room to the other without encountering them, without them asking me for something or me offering something to them. Children that age are into everything and ask a boat load of questions about everything.

I'll concede that the interviews have been cut down and that a tweet can't tell the entire story. It just gives me pause and doesn't seem like a natural way of speaking about one's life if you have a child. Actually, it's sticking out like a sore thumb to me.
 
  • #757
What I would like to know is this: WHY were they even going round to the house in the first place? We know they normally went Mon/Weds/Fri to help with (ahem..) housework. So why did they even go round that Thursday? They knew AG was going out and DG was at work. SH (as AG's main carer) would know she had a hospital appointment, and how long she'd be out for. They even asked if Becky was home, didn't they? So given they weren't "friends" with Becky, why did they even turn up there?

Has this been covered? I've been out of the loop all day!

"The jury was shown a video of a police interview with Hoare after the teenager went missing. Hoare, 21, told detectives she and Matthews, 28, went to Becky&#8217;s home to return a cake tin and watched children&#8217;s television there."

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...cused-giggled-during-interrogation-court-told
 
  • #758
Well, I hope the both of them have mentioned their child at some point. Could you imagine if they haven't?!?!

I guess what I was trying to point out is that in the snippets of testimony and interviews we have been privy to there hasn't been mention of their child or SH's pregnancy. For instance, SH says she came in from the back yard after her "ciggie" and feeding the rabbit and washed her hands and grabbed a glass of water. No where in that statement does she mention their daughter. Did she also wash her daughter's hands? Did she dry her hair off from the rain or hang up her coat? Grab her a snack? Did she leave her daughter outside? Given what was transpiring upstairs, if SH was involved, did she even know where her daughter was? Anything?
.

SH does mention her daughter though in the first police interview. She says her daughter was whinging as she wanted to go outside with her so she took her out with her to feed the rabbit.
 
  • #759
Mind boggling &#128531;
 
  • #760
SH does mention her daughter though in the first police interview. She says her daughter was whinging as she wanted to go outside with her so she took her out with her to feed the rabbit.

Okay, I was exaggerating a bit. Thank you for pointing that out, Missy. Now I remember SH saying that, too. Can you recall any other mention of their child? Serious question...because I can't.
 
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