GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #9

[e-sherlockholmes]

Just using your post to jump off. I know that NM had confessed to Becky's murder at this point, and was probably horrified at what he had done (giving him the benefit of the doubt here), but I though it was telling that he was the one who appeared to be distraught, was crying and did seem to be upset by what had happened, in his interviews.

Whereas SH is very calm in hers, right from the start. I know she didn't like Becky, but I can get upset and tearful when hearing sad news about people dying, I've cried when talking to a friend whose son I had never met committed suicide, so I do find SH to be rather calm and collected when she has just discovered that her long-term partner's step-sister is dead.... that a teenager she had known for around 6 years has been dismembered.

Of course people are right to point out that she was only 14 when they met, legally still a child - but what type of man in his twenties is interested in a girl so young? For a start, a very immature one! Girls are usually more mature for their age, and if he was particularly immature (which I don't think is impossible to rule out) then the gap in maturity levels could be a lot less than it was in actual years. So, I don't think that we should automatically assume that SH was moulded by NM.

I think her composure and measured answers are what makes me find it hard to accept the submissive, controlled role in the relationship. However, like I've said before, we are only given snippets of evidence to make judgements from, so its all supposition and opinion and nothing else.

To play devil's advocate (though I don't hold this view), if the male suspect did the murder and dismemberment all by himself, but is otherwise not a complete psychopath, he could very well have developed some form of PTSD. Sometimes, people go to 'dismember' people out of a sense of practicality, but have PTSD afterwards. Although, needless to say that anyone capable of such is already a little "different" than most who wouldn't have gone there. And if the female suspect is truly innocent, then its possible she is as poised and composed as she is. After all, an innocent person has no knowledge of the crime and may not be phased by the gruesomeness of the crime.

That being said, its also just as likely the female suspect took part in the crime, and is the ideal psychopath with total lack of remorse and empathy for the victim, who's able to stay composed and fake emotions they have done all throughout their lives. Maybe the female suspect has a high degree of psychopathy than the male suspect, even as both are equally as complicit in taking part, hence the different reactions. The question is which theory you believe.

As for their relationship, yes that's true. But its also a dynamic relationship. Its not a static event where the power struggles stay the same throughout all their years together. She might have been younger back then, but she grew up and power struggles can change in the relationship and the dominant/submissive on the onset can change roles. There is also the public side and private side to every relationship. You always hear friends and family say they "couldn't believe so and so is such a monster". Basically people don't really know other people that well and that is generally true of all relationships. Do you ever really know someone? Its often very superficial when you think about it. Everybody has secrets. Everybody has a private life. The truth is often different to what one can observe on the outside. I find family/friend testimonies helpful, but I don't rely on them.

 

[bos]

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Becky-...tthews-break/story-28035208-detail/story.html

This is the video where she claims she wasn't aware of any searches for Becky

These videos of SH aren't the ones discussed in court today though, these are the voluntary interviews before arrests and before BW's body parts were found

 

[Wallace]

If I lend someone my watch can I pay you to tell me the time?

 

[Tortoise]

As others have said, I'm basing my thoughts on what has been presented in court. Part of the evidence presented is of an abusive relationship. The jury must decide what to make of that evidence and whether there is truth in it.

i have considered the possibility that she masterminded this. I don't think that's the case personally, looking at the evidence presented.

Edited to add: Please do correct me if I'm wrong and we have been presented with evidence of her abusing him. I can't recall it but when I've been working it is quite possible I've missed some stuff.

not correcting you as such. just want to add my own pov on this.

I think there are clues that NM's admission was not the truth and that he was pressurized into it, feeling that as a man he can't throw his girl/woman, mother of his child and unborn babies, to the wolves. He couldn't look up when he was talking, he said he should be able to fill them in with more details but couldn't, he didn't know she wasn't strangled, he didn't want SH's name spoken and he wanted her removed from his video screen in court.

It's possible that NM was restraining Becky's arms or holding her legs and SH suffocated Becky in the fight while she held one hand over her airways from behind, and her head in an arm-lock.

 

[bos]

Thanks for fixing my post Coldpizza, I,d use the quote function but it doesn't seem to like me:tantrum:

 

[Wallace]

Anyone read the Daily Mirror's coverage of today in court. They seem to be very sympathetic towards SH.

 

[Coldpizza]

Admin Note

This thread is about Justice for the murder of Becky Watts and to discuss the Trial.

Continuing to personalize posts will result in the loss of posting privileges.

No more warnings.

 

[LBB]

not correcting you as such. just want to add my own pov on this.

I think there are clues that NM's admission was not the truth and that he was pressurized into it feeling that as a man he can't throw his girl/woman, mother of his child and unborn babies, to the wolves. He couldn't look up when he was talking, he said he should be able to fill them in with more details but couldn't, he didn't know she wasn't strangled, he didn't want SH's name spoken and he wanted her removed from his video screen in court.

It's possible that NM was restraining Becky's arms or holding her legs and SH suffocated Becky in the fight while she held one hand over her airways from behind, and her head in an arm-lock.

I've pondered this and havent been able to decide what I make of NMs odd behaviour in interview. I really don't know what to make of it at all and totally agree with you that these could be clues. On the other hand I wonder if his behaviour could be for other reasons. Does he not want to look at her because he's ashamed of his behaviour? Does he not want her mentioned because he's scared at not seeing her again/losing her.

I honestly don't know what I think here!

Slight side issue but I do think that whatever the verdict, right now the various journalists will be digging around to find information on all of them and once a verdict is reached, I expect we will learn a lot more about both NM and SHs up bringing, life in general, whether either were ever violent, reasons behind foster care (and if the Daily Mail had there way we will definitely know the value of their home). I think that those stories post-trial will give us a far clearer picture of the characters involved in the trial than what the snippets of evidence we are hearing can.

 

[Wallace]

How much longer is this trial scheduled to last?

 

[LBB]

How much longer is this trial scheduled to last?

They originally said it was scheduled for six weeks and this is week four.

 

[Tortoise]

Even if SH was innocent of the murder, I cannot accept her ridiculous stories to cover for the week after and the dismembering of Becky.

She had her opportunity while she was at the police station to say - he did it, I found out he had done it when we got home, he's dangerous and has kept me prisoner all week threatening to harm me if I say a word to anyone. I'm here, arrest him, he's chopped her up and hidden her in a shed, and I need police protection.

That alone makes me think they were in it together and planned one way or another to come out of it singly.

 

[skibaboo]

They originally said it was scheduled for six weeks and this is week four.

Is it really week 4? Wow, it seems to have flown by. I guess that just goes to show how much this has got us all intrigued. I still have no idea what the outcome will be and whether guilty or not guilty and for whom.

I just want to add, I've been here since day 1 and I have NEVER seen any poster lay any blame on Becky, nor even allude to it.

 

[mspuurfect]

This is all jmo, I find it very hard to believe SH knew absolutely nothing and seems like a girl thats watched too much CSI imo. The fact she was 14 when she got together means nothing to me, I remember being a teenager, proud of my body and my allure and loving the attention. I think NM and SH had many abandonment issues which glued them in some ways to one another. I think he is covering for her because of the child/unborn children (sure I've read he's great with kids somewhere, sorry can't quote the source). I think this was a partnership that fed off one another and like another poster he is now covering for her (they had days to make up the story) The fact she knows NOTHING I just don't see true. It was not a big house, the bedroom on same floor as the bathroom, I don't believe she would just ignore and not question anything and I don't think she was abused bu him IMO! She could smoke, get her nails done, slag him on FB, eat numerous takeaways but as totally controlled I don't believe - sorry. I think she wanted to please but so did he, I think she probably went off sex or he did with her being pregnant and that was a big motive, a big game gone wrong JMO

 

[Gigi-G]

I thought the trial started around the 7th October and yesterday was day 13 of the trial...

 

[skibaboo]

I thought the trial started around the 7th October and yesterday was day 13 of the trial...

Oh yes of course, it started on the 7th. So we're almost into week 3 (Wednesday will be 3 weeks since it began). lol I should have known that, it's been a long day! It has still flown by though!

 

[Cherwell]

It actually started on Monday 5 October, but the first couple of days were occupied with jury selection and other matters.

Week 1 Mon 5th
Week 2 Mon 12th
Week 3 Mon 19th
Week 4 Mon 26th
.... so we are in Week 4 of the trial

 

[Gigi-G]

It actually started on Monday 5 October, but the first couple of days were occupied with jury selection and other matters.

Week 1 Mon 5th
Week 2 Mon 12th
Week 3 Mon 19th
Week 4 Mon 26th
.... so we are in Week 4 of the trial

Thanks Cherwell. I stand corrected... 😊

 

[Thomas Andrews]

Can anybody list/summarise the prosecution's evidence that proves beyond reasonable doubt that SH helped murder BW?

 

[iclaudia]

Am I right in thinking that the evidence is roughly as follows:

Conspiracy to kidnap - a few text messages between SH/NM about other people and purchase of stun guns (in name of Shauna Phillips but on phone that NM habitually uses). From what I can see the stun guns are disguised as a torch so she wouldn't necessarily know what they were if left lying around.

Sexual motive - only evidence of sexual motive in the aforementioned text messages which were generic and not specific to BW. No evidence of any sexual interest in BW.

SH murder - a veritable mountain of improbabilities and her being present at every stage of the process. But no DNA from her on the body or upstairs at BW house (? is this correct). Some DNA on items used for BW dismemberment. Her making sudden contact with her estranged mother and inexplicably suddenly her mother's house being their second home.

As an aside, when I listen to or read SH's reaction to finding out "what Nathan had done" I don't believe a word of it. It sounds scripted and awkward and as though she thinks that's the kind of thing you need to say in this situation. Whether or not that means anything though is another matter...

 

[iclaudia]

Can anybody list/summarise the prosecution's evidence that proves beyond reasonable doubt that SH helped murder BW?

Sorry just to make clear that I cross-posted with you, my post is not a summary of the prosecution's evidence and was just my pondering thoughts over coffee this morning...