UK - Scarlett Vickers (14) stabbed to death at home in Darlington. Parents charged with murder (5 July '24)

[Dotta]

Hmmm...

If X person attacks a random Y person in the street with a knife and kills this person
(for whatever reason, or no reason at all) -

Is it murder or manslaughter?

Sure,
there seems to be premeditation.
Meaning: taking a knife and carrying it in the streets.

But the same refers to indoors IMO.

Isn't it premeditation to use a deadly weapon which is a knife,
and engage in throwing it, swinging it in the presence of others?
Especially minors with whom an adult has the duty of care?

Even children know this could prove lethal.
"Don't play with knives, don't play with matches"...etc. is responsible parents' mantra to their children.

I guess alcohol was a factor here.
As everyone knows
"Long drink=short temper fuse."

"Drink is the great provoker" some say.

But IMO it is NOT a mitigating factor.

Was it a random throwing of the knife?

It was a precise, deep and lethal single stabbing
according to pathologist.
With a knife allegedly held firmly in the hand.

JMO

Quote:

"Forensic pathologist Jennifer Bolton said it was 'practically impossible' for a thrown kitchen knife to have caused the injury.
Instead Dr Bolton concluded
the knife was being held 'tightly'
with a firm grip when it injured Scarlett."

Scarlett Vickers' fatal wound 'impossible' from thrown knife - BBC News

Scarlett Vickers' father Simon, accused of her murder, says her death was a "tragic accident".

www-bbc-com.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Deleted member 339775]

Hmmm...

If X person attacks a random Y person in the street with a knife and kills this person
(for whatever reason, or no reason at all) -

Is it murder or manslaughter?

Sure,
there seems to be premeditation.
Meaning: taking a knife and carrying it in the streets.

But the same refers to indoors IMO.

Isn't it premeditation to use a deadly weapon which is a knife,
and engage in throwing it, swinging it in the presence of others?
Especially minors with whom an adult has the duty of care?

Even children know this could prove lethal.
"Don't play with knives, don't play with matches"...etc. is responsible parents' mantra to their children.

I guess alcohol was a factor here.
As everyone knows
"Long drink=short temper fuse."

"Drink is the great provoker" some say.

But IMO it is NOT a mitigating factor.

Was it a random throwing of the knife?

It was a precise, deep and lethal single stabbing
according to pathologist.
With a knife allegedly held firmly in the hand.

JMO

Quote:

"Forensic pathologist Jennifer Bolton said it was 'practically impossible' for a thrown kitchen knife to have caused the injury.
Instead Dr Bolton concluded
the knife was being held 'tightly'
with a firm grip when it injured Scarlett."

Didn’t they say the knife went into her chest 11cm? Really doesn’t seem like it could have been randomly thrown does it. I mean IMO in theory that could have happened and it’s all a tragic accident but really, what are the odds of accidentally picking up a knife as well as tongs(!) and it not only stabbing the other person but entering their chest 11cm deep?! I agree with your thoughts on alcohol playing a large role in this though

 

[bobbymkii]

4:18pm

Jury sent home for the night​

The trial will resume tomorrow morning at 10am.

Scarlett Vickers LIVE: Darlington dad murder trial jury sent out by judge

Simon Vickers, 50, of Geneva Road, Darlington, is charged with the murder of his daughter, Scarlett

www.darlingtonandstocktontimes.co.uk

 

[Alyce]

The Crown Court at Teesside

Daily Courtroom List for Monday 27 January 2025



FINAL 1

​

Court 1 - sitting at 10:00 am

THE HONOURABLE MR JUSTICE COTTER

​

Trial (Part Heard)

U20247258

Simon VICKERS 11DD0225624

www.courtserve.net

 

[Dotta]

Still no verdict?
Hmmm....

Manslaughter vs Murder
is being discussed I guess.

With each option having supporters.
Exactly like on this forum.

JMO

 

[bobbymkii]

Darlington dad found guilty of killing teenage daughter

A Darlington man has been found guilty of the murder of his teenage daughter,...

hellorayo.co.uk

 

[Sarahlou]

Guilty of murder! Good. I'm glad the jury didn't buy that ridiculous story.

 

[Deleted member 339775]

Well I for one am pleased with the verdict and I hope it brings some justice for Scarlett. He obviously was lying from the beginning so I’m glad they found him guilty

 

[Dotta]

Yes.
So Right.
The law is harsh, but it is the law.

JMO

 

[wtiger]

i can only assume that the jury saw evidence that was not reported by the press during this trial....because murder (premeditation) seems a leap from what i read.

but fair enough the jury were better placed to judge than i was

 

[Dotta]

i can only assume that the jury saw evidence that was not reported by the press during this trial....because murder (premeditation) seems a leap from what i read.

but fair enough the jury were better placed to judge than i was

The most damning was pathologist's report.
It was the most important clue/evidence of this trial IMO.
And it was reported all right.

JMO

 

[bobbymkii]

“Mr Crow said that the defendant picked up a knife off the side counter of the kitchen and said ‘We were messing on, we were play-fighting and she lunged towards me and it just went in’.”

This, IMO has always been the most plausible explanation as to how Scarlett was stabbed. If he had plead guilty to manslaughter on the basis of this explanation, I don't think the Crown would have even taken the murder charge to trial.

Instead, he's gambled on getting off scot-free based on the fourth or fifth ridiculous story he came up with, and lost big time.

If he's sat in his cell tonight wondering who to blame, he need only look in the mirror and see this face:

Simon Vickers has been convicted of murder (Image: PA)

Dad murdered his daughter, 14, after stabbing her in heart during 'play-fight'

Simon Vickers has been convicted of murdering his daughter Scarlett

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

 

[Dotta]

“Mr Crow said that the defendant picked up a knife off the side counter of the kitchen and said ‘We were messing on, we were play-fighting and she lunged towards me and it just went in’.”

This, IMO has always been the most plausible explanation as to how Scarlett was stabbed. If he had plead guilty to manslaughter on the basis of this explanation, I don't think the Crown would have even taken the murder charge to trial.

Instead, he's gambled on getting off scot-free based on the fourth or fifth ridiculous story he came up with, and lost big time.

If he's sat in his cell tonight wondering who to blame, he need only look in the mirror and see this face:

Simon Vickers has been convicted of murder (Image: PA)

Dad murdered his daughter, 14, after stabbing her in heart during 'play-fight'

Simon Vickers has been convicted of murdering his daughter Scarlett

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

Scary guy!
Brrr.....

 

[MollyHarps]

I’m actually quite surprised that the murder charge has stuck - I thought it would be downgraded to manslaughter.

It sounds to me like a drunken / drug fuelled argument or accident gone wrong.

Hall didn’t turn on her partner in the evidence which I think she would have if it was an intentional murder stabbing.

I have no sympathy for him though - you don’t play fight with knives they are dangerous.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

The law is harsh

I don't know about the law in a case of violent crime being harsh...

This, IMO has always been the most plausible explanation as to how Scarlett was stabbed.

If that actually happened, why would he tell different stories?

Also a teenager would instinctively keep her distance from a knife, not lunge toward it.

She would likely move away from him in any case, (not toward him), if they were horsing around with kitchen items and he was throwing them at her (or whatever.)

So there wasn't a reason to lunge toward him while he held a knife. She would have had to have no idea he held a knife, and be moving toward him while he was doing whatever, and that doesn't add up for me. IMO.

 

[Sarahlou]

I think he was very drunk/drugged and they got into an argument and he lunged at her. I don't buy that she lunged towards him.
I think the mother might be protecting him as she didn't want to lose him too. Or she didn't actually really know what happened and took his word for it. JMO.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

It would be interesting to hear exactly what the jury believes happened.

 

[Dotta]

It would be interesting to hear exactly what the jury believes happened.

The verdict shows us IMO.

The girl was attacked in her own home by a drunk/drugged "father".

Who didn't have the courage to tell the truth.

Save children from violence!
No excuse for violence!

JMO

 

[bobbymkii]

If that actually happened, why would he tell different stories?

SBM. Because, as I said in my post, he's gambling on getting off completely scot-free. By acknowledging that he was holding the knife when she lunged into him he is acknowledging that he was handling it recklessly/dangerously and at the very least has no defence to the crime of manslaughter.

 

[Honeybirdette]

Common sense prevails thank god … he lied through his teeth from the start. said to the paramedic I threw a knife … then no I didn’t say that.. then in court said he might have thrown it alongside some tongs… the paramedic told him to put the knife down, in court he denied the knife being in his hand when they asked him this. There was only 3 ppl in the house and one was stabbed. Ones lying through his teeth and muddling his story up and the other is pretending she didn’t see what happened despite being in the same room at the time.

what other sensible conclusion could the jury come to with this evidence?