GUILTY Uk - Sophie Lionnet, 21, Body Found Burned, Wandsworth, London, 20 Sep 2017 *arrests*

[Tortoise]

For Michelle :cup:

Or maybe :drink:

 

[michelle230]

For Michelle :cup:

Or maybe :drink:

Lol Tortoise.....oh....and make that a mocha with cream and lots of choccy sprinkles :coffeews:

 

[michelle230]

...and by the way the image of you and Sar with your heads stuck in saucepans - I`m gonna have to be very careful what I post on here.

SK threw herself from the balcony of a fourth floor flat.

WARNING: DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME

 

[michelle230]

Bit more about yesterday...
K saying that SK kicked and punched Sophie. SK, "Police`s fault for not asking proper questions and leading K (to say those things!)
Carole from upstairs on going to collect a parcel that delivery driver had left - she was met with abuse and screaming, "How dare you accuse me of having your parcel.." Carole`s fault - she was aggressive and came at the "wrong time".
Francois - she slept with him because he drugged her and she woke up to find him next to her in bed. He stole from her. He hit her, shouted at her etc
Pownall:
(P) You are making it all up as you go along.
SK: Why would I?
P: Because it`s what you do!

P put it to her that OM did not use her - on the contrary, it was her who used him - she dominated and controlled him.

All the reams of medical evidence SK blamed on the abuse of everyone, including her uncle and cousin years ago.
P: You refuse to admit you need psychiatric assistance and are mentally unwell.

On SK`s assertion that OM assaulted her, P said, "That`s very odd because you clearly didn`t discuss that with Peart or he would have questioned OM about that. You are making it up as you go along. You make up dreadful stories. You are always the victim. You have violent mood swings. You exploit the weak".

P: I am going to select some of your lies and not go through every little one. (Thank you P - my washing is piling up, I can`t see anything in my house for dust, I have run out of loo paper and now using newspaper, and I really can`t spend another five years at the Old Bailey - Michelle`s sidenote)

Some points from SK`s medical notes - she had to go to hospital because OM pushed her against the door and dislodged pins in her back. Truth as read from medical notes - routine procedure to remove pins and * nothing * in the notes about being assaulted by partner. Suicide attempts over the years - SK - all caused from her abusive partners (although previously claimed balcony fall was because her mother locked her in a room and refused to let her out to attend a party). Medical notes state: depression, her inability to hold down a relationship or a job (SK`s words at the time to the doctors/psychiatrists. SK - yesterday - "Dr made these things up", "Medical notes incorrectly translated".
Medical notes - she drank cleaning fluid during one hospital stay (* when she was pregnant with K *). SK, "I don`t remember".

Called police to complain about a wooden toy in K`s bath :thinking: (don`t blame me, I`m just the messenger...). SK "Police twisted it".

P: You were at Coombe Wood for six weeks.
SK: Yes, because of OM`s violence towards me (not because I was considered mad and a danger to my unborn child..)
P: OM came to visit you every day.
SK: No he didn`t.
P: I have the hospital records in front of me. It shows that OM came to visit you every day.
SK: .....He was bringing my mother because she doesn`t speak English.

TBC

Tortoise...MOCHA.....NOW

 

[PinkPrincessPoop]

Has anyone asked SK if she feared SL so much and was sure she was abusing her children, etc.....why didn't she just send her back to France? Or call the police? LOL! Everything SK says/does according to her own "defense" makes no sense.

Thank you Michelle for all the updates!

I do not want to start a debate here but I do wonder about that tidbit..."You refuse to admit you need psychiatric assistance and are mentally unwell." How are these types of people suppose to be members of society?

 

[sar2them1984]

...and by the way the image of you and Sar with your heads stuck in saucepans - I`m gonna have to be very careful what I post on here.

SK threw herself from the balcony of a fourth floor flat.

WARNING: DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME

No worries I'm not about to try that....although i must admit i did look up what voluntary defenestration meant!!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[michelle230]

No - she didn`t set fire to the curtains (when OM was working hard and therefore not at her constant needy beck and call). She accidentally put a candle too near to them. (Romantic evening? Lucky OM!)

Was sacked from various jobs - nannying jobs, building supply company (think she said it was a long way away and she was sacked for being late. Another "job" was pyramid selling!! She told doctors in 1999 that she had problems holding down a job. (On medical records but denies this!).

P was making the point that she was financially reliant on OM for most of the relationship.

Then came MW who wanted to go into a business relationship with her. She was going to produce music!!
P: Do you actually have any experience of music production? What * is * your experiece? Can you play an instrument?
SK: Yes
P: Which instrument?
SK: Every instrument (la la la)
MW stated that he had never employed her..and then there was rumblings about a fake contract that I couldn`t quite get my head around!

K`s Amercian medical records, (which she was going to take to the police...but never responded to their concrete appointment given to her), what happened to them? Sadly they vanished during the subsequent police search of the property..oh...along with Sophie`s phone. She stated that she "took K to the BEST

doctors in America". P: There is no evidence at all.

She stated that OM wasn`t receiving any rent from his (dead) father`s flat - using that as evidence that OM was not helping out financially - yet at the same time states that she didn`t know OM`s father had died..he hadn`t bothered to tell her and she was shocked!

Something about pregnancy scans being missed - unsure where this fits in..maybe to do with hiding pregnancy?? Not sure.

2007 - hallucinations and nightmares (more medical evidence). She said it was due to hormones and "normal".

Thinking about it - maybe that`s why she didn`t go for the scans....too much on her medical records?

July 2012 - called police to ask for assistance to remove MW from flat because he was cheating (police records).
SK: It was because he tried to choke me...

One lighter moment was when P raised the "evidence" that OM had boasted about having sex with SK for the first time. P put it to her that OM boasting was another of her (malicious) lies:
SK: (raising voice in great indignation) It`s true. He did. I`ll tell you how it`s true. Because he knew I shaved..how would he know that? How would he know if it`s not true??" (Somewhat missing the point!)
P gave a kind of amused "too much information" gesture

On a different note I found out who the extra person was - SK now has the following:
Interpreter
Appropriate adult
St John`s Ambulance
Medical staff from the mental unit she is being held at (court staff I asked think they are from there - they are medical staff from outside the court)



P: Putting Donald Trump aside......

 

[michelle230]

Has anyone asked SK if she feared SL so much and was sure she was abusing her children, etc.....why didn't she just send her back to France? Or call the police? LOL! Everything SK says/does according to her own "defense" makes no sense.

Thank you Michelle for all the updates!

I do not want to start a debate here but I do wonder about that tidbit..."You refuse to admit you need psychiatric assistance and are mentally unwell." How are these types of people suppose to be members of society?

BIB
Most of them become politicians

 

[michelle230]

P.S. What a rubbish article headline in the Daily Mail about them having sex. Just because a delusional nutter says it (purely to discredit OM as she does at every turn), does not make it true. I doubt they`ve had sex for years! (They have very weird sleeping arrangements).

 

[Tortoise]

One Mocha coming up Madame ...:coffeecup:

Now I'm going to catch up with your posts.

 

[sar2them1984]

Thanks for the updates. If i wasnt so far away I'd mosey on down...

Putting the absurdity of it all to one side i am genuinely shocked that this has gone to trial (or a full trial at least) given the quite obvious and longstanding severe mental health problems she has documented.

I'm by no means an expert but have worked in a variety of settings where people with much less severe mental health problems have been involuntarily detained...add into the mix that she has children...shes well and truly fallen under the radar.

She obviously doesnt feel she has problems which is quite common with people with those kinds of issues but surely her barrister could do something to stop this farcical nonsense. She's not doing herself any favours but is literally digging a hole and making herself look b@t***** crazy. Im suprised they've not gone down the diminished responsibility route...

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[janeh]

Thank you again for the updates. Is SK managing to answer questions without using the interpreter? Just wondering because I cannot understand how come she has lived in England for so long and not learnt the language

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[Tortoise]

There was an accusation against one of them, OM or MW, that they pushed her and caused a miscarriage. I wonder if the missing scans are something to do with there being no medical records of that pregnancy.

In other words another lie.

 

[michelle230]

Didn`t make notes today but will try and remember key points.

P: Why didn`t the police act on your complaint? (When SK dragged Sophie in to the police station..oh..and offered her a follow up appointment to discuss further and bring K`s medical evidence from America)
SK: Maybe because of my race - I`m French - not English - and my colour

Unlike OM, every chance she gets, she lobs in a slur about whoever is being discussed. Every chance she gets. And it is noticed and commented on by P with a raised eyebrow and pointed remark.
Sophie, (quiet, painfully shy and probably socially inept), was sleeping around with half of the "village" (as she calls it), and she was very embarrassed to be seen walking around with her as she is well known in the area, very modest...so modest in fact that she walks with the eyes to the ground!
Sophie had written to her - why do you call me a ...a ...a *****? Sophie had written several facebook messages to her mother saying that she wanted to come home, that she had only intended to stay for one year and it was now one year and five months, saying she had been accused of stealing jewellery for SK. K. even tried to test for Sophie`s fingerprints on a box (jewellery box, I think).
Many times this morning, SK painted a terrible picture of this shy girl. Regarding her insistence that Sophie had slept with Michael (fish and chip man), SK continually referred to Sophie liking "old" men. "Old" as being used deliberately in a vindictive, slurring way - even if it * was * true that Sophie liked * older * men (untrue anyway), SK deliberately used the word * old * men.
SK said that she had told Sophie`s mother all this. (I don`t understand why Sophie`s mother did not give evidence).
SK`s medication must have needed topping up :thinking: because she was much less in control today. She interrupted, challenged P, raised her voice, argued, talked on and on way past answering the actual question she was being asked,asked on numerous occasions, "What`s that got to do with it?" and when caught on a particularly bad piece of evidence, stated "That doesn`t make me a murderer". An amusing moment was when she accused some members of the jury of laughing at yet another of her fantastical beliefs.
Part of one of the last "interviews" was played. Loud and awful slapping was heard. SK contests that it was SK slapping her own face, ("It`s normal to do that in France. My grandmother used to do that".

When questioned about K`s evidence against his own mother, (witnessed SK kicking Sophie and offering that K should assault Sophie as well, she said, "He`s just a child" (i.e. he didn`t know what he was saying).

When asked why she didn`t take the tapes to the police as she now had all the evidence, she replied that she needed to get the house address and the phone first because she "needed to do the police`s job", as they wouldn`t do anything themselves about it.

More venom directed at OM. He was not interested in them "But he took them/collected them from school. He took them out to places" remarked P. SK, shouting, "Well he had to do something. He was living off me. I did the shopping. I did the cooking. I did the washing". OM was always out, never there. OM was a dead stone etc. "But OM took Kelsey to Disneyland", said P. (presumably there is evidence of this). SK "No he didn`t. I wouldn`t let him. Not without me".
SK said that Sophie was free to leave any time but that she didn`t want to go as she had a great time there. Hardly any work to do, all her washing done, free food cooked for her, free lodgings, given money to go out etc P remarked drily, "So, she had a lovely time, did she".

SK was in a different mode today - defiant, argumentative, loud, angry. And that`s * with * medication!

Oh - and she wasn`t happy with the newspaper reporting yesterday :notgood:

 

[michelle230]

One Mocha coming up Madame ...:coffeecup:

Now I'm going to catch up with your posts.

Where`s my chocolate sprinkles :tantrum:

 

[michelle230]

Thanks for the updates. If i wasnt so far away I'd mosey on down...

Putting the absurdity of it all to one side i am genuinely shocked that this has gone to trial (or a full trial at least) given the quite obvious and longstanding severe mental health problems she has documented.

I'm by no means an expert but have worked in a variety of settings where people with much less severe mental health problems have been involuntarily detained...add into the mix that she has children...shes well and truly fallen under the radar.

She obviously doesnt feel she has problems which is quite common with people with those kinds of issues but surely her barrister could do something to stop this farcical nonsense. She's not doing herself any favours but is literally digging a hole and making herself look b@t***** crazy. Im suprised they've not gone down the diminished responsibility route...

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

BIB

She has been deemed criminally responsible (if that`s the correct terminology).

She`s smart enough to have all the answers worked out and to give it her best shot. Having a personality disorder does not classify you as being insane. They come under a completely different category to schizophrenia and psychosis.

 

[michelle230]

Thank you again for the updates. Is SK managing to answer questions without using the interpreter? Just wondering because I cannot understand how come she has lived in England for so long and not learnt the language

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

Yes - but occasionally needs clarification or help with wording her lies...I mean answers. Not often, but occasionally.

 

[michelle230]

There was an accusation against one of them, OM or MW, that they pushed her and caused a miscarriage. I wonder if the missing scans are something to do with there being no medical records of that pregnancy.

In other words another lie.

Yes - that`s right, but unsure of when it was meant to be and whose baby/who caused it. Tomorrow`s homework for me!

 

[janeh]

Thank you Michelle. Yes I was wondering how she managed to lie so effectively (she thinks) if she doesn't understand what is being asked.

Yes - but occasionally needs clarification or help with wording her lies...I mean answers. Not often, but occasionally.

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[michelle230]

"Sophie, (quiet, painfully shy and probably socially inept), was sleeping around with half of the "village" (as she calls it), and she was very embarrassed to be seen walking around with her as she is well known in the area, very modest...so modest in fact that she walks with the eyes to the ground!"

Sk that is. Not Sophie. Just in case you were confused........