UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #2

[Pinkizzy]

This is so specific that it holds a lot more water than a memory 30+ years after the fact IMO

MG may have panicked or became confused when he was questioned in 1986 and later changed his statement when interviewed by DV

 

[asyousay]

MG may have panicked or became confused when he was questioned in 1986 and later changed his statement when interviewed by DV

So he got confused a few days after the fact but then 35 years later he suddenly remembered what really happened?


We have never heard before DV she didn’t take keys and there is zero proof apart from this book that she didn’t take them. I am just not buying the fact she wrote down a “fictional appointment” but then wouldn’t of automatically taken the keys to sell the story.

Sorry that’s super far fetched IMO

 

[Pinkizzy]

So he got confused a few days after the fact but then 35 years later he suddenly remembered what really happened?


We have never heard before DV she didn’t take keys and there is zero proof apart from this book that she didn’t take them. I am just not buying the fact she wrote down a “fictional appointment” but then wouldn’t of automatically taken the keys to sell the story.

Sorry that’s super far fetched IMO

I guess he may have lied about the keys for some reason

 

[Terryb808]

If you were going to kidnap someone and didn’t want to raise any suspicions you’d use a more common name.
Mr Kipper is just too odd for words, on the other hand if SJL needed to meet someone and couldn’t get out of the office it’s the sort of name she might use.
Apparently she liked using nicknames and she may have had this one for the person she was going out to meet.
There are too many things wrong with this appointment for it to be a real viewing. The office have no other information on Mr Kipper, even if you make a last minute appointment, you would record all the appropriate contact details.
In this case there are none, not even a first name or initial. She worked for a successful business and you just don’t work like this, the basics must be followed.
IMO Mr Kipper either didn’t exist, or was a nickname for someone SJL knew, either way the viewing never happened.

 

[Cluesleuth]

If you were going to kidnap someone and didn’t want to raise any suspicions you’d use a more common name.
Mr Kipper is just too odd for words, on the other hand if SJL needed to meet someone and couldn’t get out of the office it’s the sort of name she might use.
Apparently she liked using nicknames and she may have had this one for the person she was going out to meet.
There are too many things wrong with this appointment for it to be a real viewing. The office have no other information on Mr Kipper, even if you make a last minute appointment, you would record all the appropriate contact details.
In this case there are none, not even a first name or initial. She worked for a successful business and you just don’t work like this, the basics must be followed.
IMO Mr Kipper either didn’t exist, or was a nickname for someone SJL knew, either way the viewing never happened.

A more common name like SKIPPER perhaps? I think we would all like to have an explaination why that name appears along side Kipper on the Incident Room whiteboard

 

[asyousay]

If you were going to kidnap someone and didn’t want to raise any suspicions you’d use a more common name.
Mr Kipper is just too odd for words, on the other hand if SJL needed to meet someone and couldn’t get out of the office it’s the sort of name she might use.
Apparently she liked using nicknames and she may have had this one for the person she was going out to meet.
There are too many things wrong with this appointment for it to be a real viewing. The office have no other information on Mr Kipper, even if you make a last minute appointment, you would record all the appropriate contact details.
In this case there are none, not even a first name or initial. She worked for a successful business and you just don’t work like this, the basics must be followed.
IMO Mr Kipper either didn’t exist, or was a nickname for someone SJL knew, either way the viewing never happened.

Yet LE believe she did go and meet a Mr Kipper so on that alone I am not going to disregard it.



None of us know enough to disregard anything as we don’t know what happened when she left her place of work.


For all we know she was attacked as she walked to her car.

 

[Pinkizzy]

Isn't it strange how SL was seen outside Shorrolds Rd with a tanned man, driving along Fulham Palace Road with a male passenger, sitting in the park drinking champagne with a man and yet none sees her in Putney. None sees her or pretends to see her near her flat - odd.

 

[Terryb808]

Yet LE believe she did go and meet a Mr Kipper so on that alone I am not going to disregard it.



None of us know enough to disregard anything as we don’t know what happened when she left her place of work.


For all we know she was attacked as she walked to her car.

Going back to thread 1, the first option put forward was being car jacked by JC as she got to her car in Whittingstall Road.
This is his MO and he was reasonably good at it, he is believed to have used this technique in broad daylight in his home city of Birmingham.
To account for the BW sighting he would have needed to take her to a secluded spot, before persuading her to drive home to Hammersmith.
At this point he restrained her and dumped her car in Stevenage Road to put the police off.
To complete the story after the press coverage on the Wednesday he murdered her and dumped her body in the Grand Union canal at Gallows Bridge on Thursday morning (as seen by JD’s lorry driver) at 5am.
Two things wrong, JC isn’t that good at planning to this degree.
We have absolutely no evidence that any of this happened. I don’t think JD even has this as a working narrative.

 

[asyousay]

Yes I was reading about this Canal theory did LE search it?

I don’t know much apart from he was meant to have dropped a bag was it I think it was.

 

[TimFisher1965]

It looks like DL spoke to several people before they were interviewed by the police -

MG
HR
Owner of the Stevenage Rd property
SLs next door neighbour in Putney
PoW landlord by phone and maybe in person

Hi, do you think DL is the person asking for Susan on the phone? when do you think DL spoke to the POW or went there? How would she know to look there? interesting but needs some facts to back it up to be credible I think.

 

[WestLondoner]

Isn't it strange how SL was seen outside Shorrolds Rd with a tanned man, driving along Fulham Palace Road with a male passenger, sitting in the park drinking champagne with a man and yet none sees her in Putney. None sees her or pretends to see her near her flat - odd.

The description of a "tanned" man rules out JC IMO. He had just got out of prison - he wouldn't have a tan, he'd be somewhere between pasty white and average.

The supposed account of SJL sitting in a park drinking was volunteered 14 years later so is of no value, IMO.

The really interesting sighting is the BW one. It is impossible to reconcile with anything but carjacking by an acquaintance, yet nobody saw a thing (even 14 years later).

 

[WestLondoner]

Hi, do you think DL is the person asking for Susan on the phone? when do you think DL spoke to the POW or went there? How would she know to look there? interesting but needs some facts to back it up to be credible I think.

She is really the only candidate, although the timing is baffling. Supposedly a woman and a police officer called the pub, if CV's account is vaguely accurate. You can see how the police would call once they heard about the cheque book (if we assume CV got the times or the day wrong but the substance roughly right). It's hard to fathom how DL could have done so, or why she called her Susan, or why CV thought her name was Sarah when clearly she would have announced herself as 'her mother'.

 

[Pinkizzy]

I guess SL may have told her about the lost items and MG knew about the errand to collect her things from the pub at some point during the day. Have you read David Videcette's book?

Hi, do you think DL is the person asking for Susan on the phone? when do you think DL spoke to the POW or went there? How would she know to look there? interesting but needs some facts to back it up to be credible I think.

 

[TimFisher1965]

I guess SL may have told her about the lost items and MG knew about the errand to collect her things from the pub at some point during the day. Have you read David Videcette's book?

I have read DVs book several times and exchanged lots of messages with him. mark Guerdon didn’t even seem to know about the lost possessions when asked about it. I think he thought she was running a personal errand but he never says anything about the possessions to my knowledge. I don’t think Dl knew anything about the possessions either I can find no evidence she has ever mentioned it. I have spoken to a person who was in the office that day and they are certain she lost the possessions the night before.

 

[Cluesleuth]

She is really the only candidate, although the timing is baffling. Supposedly a woman and a police officer called the pub, if CV's account is vaguely accurate. You can see how the police would call once they heard about the cheque book (if we assume CV got the times or the day wrong but the substance roughly right). It's hard to fathom how DL could have done so, or why she called her Susan, or why CV thought her name was Sarah when clearly she would have announced herself as 'her mother'.

Was the caller a friend who knew of the lost diary and where it was lost/found and rang to enquire if she had been to collect them as she needed to speak with SJL urgently, on learning she hadnt they left their name and a tel number for SJL to call her when SJL arrived. Such was their concern to speak to SJL that they instructed the Landlord to keep her talking and not let her leave by telling her he couldnt find the diary and chq book.
Did SJL need to be warned about someone.

these are my opinions only

 

[Terryb808]

The point I was trying to make in my “JC did it” post was that due to the lack of real evidence and facts you can make a reasonable narrative for many different possibilities.

What is needed (by the police) is to look at each possibility and eliminate them. DV’s book outlines one possibility and his conclusions have not been looked at.

This method is just basic problem solving, when all else fails, go back to the beginning and start again.

Don’t take short cuts and try and prove the error ridden case put together by the previous teams.

 

[Pinkizzy]

I have read DVs book several times and exchanged lots of messages with him. mark Guerdon didn’t even seem to know about the lost possessions when asked about it. I think he thought she was running a personal errand but he never says anything about the possessions to my knowledge. I don’t think Dl knew anything about the possessions either I can find no evidence she has ever mentioned it. I have spoken to a person who was in the office that day and they are certain she lost the possessions the night before.

Dl may have heard about the trip to the PoW from SL or MG. DL called or visited other witnesses, didnt she?

 

[Cluesleuth]

The point I was trying to make in my “JC did it” post was that due to the lack of real evidence and facts you can make a reasonable narrative for many different possibilities.

What is needed (by the police) is to look at each possibility and eliminate them. DV’s book outlines one possibility and his conclusions have not been looked at.

This method is just basic problem solving, when all else fails, go back to the beginning and start again.

Don’t take short cuts and try and prove the error ridden case put together by the previous teams.

In my opinion what pulled JC's name into the SJL case was because of who he said he bought the mini from.

 

[Terryb808]

In my opinion what pulled JC's name into the SJL case was because of who he said he bought the mini from.

Yes exactly, I have also read it quoted that it was a name he used himself.
I don’t believe in coincidences when crime is involved and this is a big one.
The problem with proving JC remained in London until the Thursday and the Gallows Bridge sighting is that all those that might have been involved have passed away.
The police failed to confirm his alibi at the time and it’s too late now.
JC is the only person who knows for sure and he’s not saying.

 

[Terryb808]

I still think the only way to move forward is to search the PoW and the adjacent railway embankment.
This would confirm or debunk DV’s narrative and close off one possibility.