UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #2

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Did this lead anywhere?



Also does anybody know how many reviews there have been in the case?
 
There was multiple teams involved in investigating this case and multiple reviews over the years.


1) So was they all completely incompetent over the years?

2) The Met is now in some big conspiracy to cover up the real killer to save their pride?

3) So is Suzy’s family also in this cover up as they also want nothing to do with DV and his pet theory?

4) Are we meant to believe 1000’s of different officers over a 30 year period all failed to spot CV was lying and the real killer?
Easy answer for the Met is "Name That Tune", we've had many reasons given as to why they can't search the PoW, but with a lot of tact and diplomacy I've sure that could obtain permission to take a look and put this question beyond any doubt.
 
I tend to agree, my take on it is the injustice of getting away with a crime, so yes, if it could be proved, then why not go all the way.

I'd imagine though that publishers would not publish DVs book if he named KH. As they could be part of liable proceedings.

There are numerous publications, press reports and indeed court proceedings with a 'Mr A abducted Child B, accompanied by Mr B etc' ....
 
I'd imagine though that publishers would not publish DVs book if he named KH. As they could be part of liable proceedings.

There are numerous publications, press reports and indeed court proceedings with a 'Mr A abducted Child B, accompanied by Mr B etc' ....


That does not stop DV naming him elsewhere though. He is hiding his name because he has zero proof and it’s a theory nothing more.

I hope it is looked into just to prove it’s wrong (IMO) as this just gives people tunnel vision now which is unfortunate.


In his book the wife and ex boyfriend were way more suspicious in nature. IMO
 
Hi Crusader,
With regard to your post stating numerous phone calls were made from the PoW to SJL, I was just wondering where this information came from (if you can say) as I understood there was only one phone call made from the PoW to SJL’s bank to report the finding of her chequebook?
 
That does not stop DV naming him elsewhere though.

Pubically accuse an individual of murder? Really? ....

libel law permits individuals and companies to go to court to defend their reputations against the harms caused by false and defamatory publications made by others. A claimant must show that they have been identified in the publication, and that the publication was defamatory

As it has not been proved that CV was responsible for SLs murder he'd be laughing all the way to the bank with the above!
 
Hi Crusader,
With regard to your post stating numerous phone calls were made from the PoW to SJL, I was just wondering where this information came from (if you can say) as I understood there was only one phone call made from the PoW to SJL’s bank to report the finding of her chequebook?

(From memory here and it may not be 100% lol!)

Yes as you say the Pow rang the bank.

Also (based on AS book) -
1. After hearing from bank, SL herself rang POW to arrange collection of items
2. Prior to leaving at lunchtime, SL again rang POW, speaking to Mrs CV

Be good if these were confirmed / corrected!
 
Thanks for the reply, it would indeed be good if things could be verified!
It would also be very interesting if DV did try and take his case to be tried in a Court Hearing
 
Pubically accuse an individual of murder? Really? ....

libel law permits individuals and companies to go to court to defend their reputations against the harms caused by false and defamatory publications made by others. A claimant must show that they have been identified in the publication, and that the publication was defamatory

As it has not been proved that CV was responsible for SLs murder he'd be laughing all the way to the bank with the above!



I clearly stated in my post if I was convinced he was guilty and if I thought it would help solve the case I would name him.

So I don’t know why you are pointing out the law - I literally said I would happily have my day in court if I believed he had murdered somebody.

I would take all the publicity to blow the case wide open and let’s be completely honest if he is guilty he wouldn’t do anything as he wouldn’t want the hassle. it’s called calling CV bluff.

MOO
 
So a court hearing starts in which an order is made to ban the reporting of. Case starts, no journos present ...

CV sues DV for defamation, and is awarded £10 million plus costs.

DV loses everything including his dog!

And absolutely nothing is achieved forwarding this case ....
 
So a court hearing starts in which an order is made to ban the reporting of. Case starts, no journos present ...

CV sues DV for defamation, and is awarded £10 million plus costs.

DV loses everything including his dog!

And absolutely nothing is achieved forwarding this case ....



or as I literally just said - he is guilty of murder and doesn’t do anything. You are assuming he sues when the odds are he wouldn’t if guilty which is what DV claims. He also from the book doesn’t exactly strike me as somebody with the means to go though a long drawn out court case.

Also the truth would already be out as DV would of named and shamed him hence them being court. That’s the whole point of naming him in the first place. You can’t hide when you have publicly been accused of one of the biggest unsolved murder cases in the U.K.

This is exactly why DV won’t touch the celeb couple because they do have the means and power to make his life hell.
 
or as I literally just said - he is guilty of murder and doesn’t do anything.
Actual murders (who have not been convicted in a court of law) would flippin' sue?

Open and shut, lottery-win-style-payout case for goodness sake .... :D
 
Not quite “nothing would be achieved” as it depends on the outcome.
If DV is proved wrong, then all speculation and suspicion will be removed from CV, which, I should imagine would be a huge relief to him.
However you are right in saying it would not help the case.
 
Actual murders (who have not been convicted in a court of law) would flippin' sue?

Open and shut, lottery-win-style-payout case for goodness sake .... :D

He doesn’t strike me as somebody who would sue personally. We won’t ever know though as DV won’t name him publicly. :)
 
Ian Huntley fooled experienced detectives, why not CV?
Initially Huntley was treated as a witness (offically).

Twelve days after the disappearance of Holly and Jessica, Huntley and Carr provided detailed witness statements over a number of hours before being placed in a safe house, under observation!

What it is essential to understand is the police have limited time to charge or release a suspect following arrest. In such a case, where possible, i.e risk assessed and mitigated, the police will ensure they have sufficient evidence for the initial arrest and detention extensions that will lead to a charge.

Anyone, such as Huntley, who became a self-appointed spokesperson, got as close to the investigation as possible and asked questions of the police about the investigation will very quickly be on their radar.
 
He doesn’t strike me as somebody who would sue personally. We won’t ever know though as DV won’t name him publicly. :)
And @Crusader21

Well if an alleged defamatory statement is 'substantially true' then that would be a sufficient defence in any civil action.

If DV is that confident then he should speak up.

Not to mention that only those with very deep pockets can bring defamation cases to court.
 
There was never any evidence she was going to the POW so the police just don’t search
places when there isn’t a single bit of evidence.
Well, they do, in fact. They searched 123SR, although there's no evidence she went there. They searched 37SR although nobody identified her there. They have searched various places related to JC including, bizarrely, under his mother's kitchen floor. The police must think that JC was able to dig it up, hide a body, and replace the floor, all without his mother's noticing, and have persuaded a judge that this was possible. It does show how easy it would be to search the PoW though. They just tell a judge JC buried her there using his magic shovel.
I have never understood where the wife was though because she was the last person to talk to Suzy on the phone.
We don't know this. We don't actually know who spoke to SJL that morning. All we know is that someone at the PoW called SJL's bank and that her bank called SJL at work to tell her where her cheque book was. They would not give her phone number out to a pub, but they would give the pub's number to her. So probably she called the pub. We don't know who she spoke to, but if there was a 'last' person she spoke to, that says there was more than one call, and more than one person. Logically, there would only need to be two calls if one made, and the second changed, an arrangement. The first call was to arrange a pickup after work. The second call was because a viewing had been requested at 6pm, which clashed. She had tennis at 7pm, so those two dates wipe out the evening. If she needs her diary back that day, she has to reschedule. So she calls to cancel the 6pm visit and moves it up to right away.

We don't know who made the second call or who knew what was said.
She was going to retrieve them after work. It was literally a road over from where she lived so that’s the logical conclusion. Her Cheque book would of been cancelled so no worries there either.
She could not retrieve them after work; see above.

Cancelling a cheque book was a huge pain. Debit cards did not then exist, so if you needed to pay someone who didn't take credit cards (lots of businesses then did not - M&S didn't accept credit cards until 2000 and John Lewis / Waitrose only accepted their own until about the same time), you had to write a cheque. If it was up to £50, you presented a cheque guarantee card with the cheque, and the sales assistant wrote its number down on the back. You had to keep your cheque book and cheque card separate, so that thieves could not steal both at once, and write themselves cheques for £50 apparently guaranteed by your card.

If you lost your cheque book, you would wait a couple of weeks for a replacement to arrive. Meanwhile you would be constantly going to cashpoints to withdraw and carry around cash.
This is just me and way I work. But if I was convinced somebody had gotten away with murder and had spent years writing a book then I would happily see CV in court because it would bring a-whole lot more publicity to the case and open Pandora’s box.
That's not what would happen, though; CV would not even be in court. If you defame someone, and they sue you for libel, they only have to show one thing, which is that what you said was defamatory i.e. there is a sting to the libel. Saying they murdered someone is defamatory, so they'd get their libel action. The presumption is that they're of good character. They don't have to appear in court or testify or defend themselves or prove you libelled them. You have to prove you didn't.

You have a very limited number of permissible ways to do so. One is that the defamatory statements are true. You have to prove they are. The party you have defamed does not have to prove they aren't.

Another is honest opinion; you're not saying that something is true but that based on a series of true facts (which again you have to prove are true), the canonical "reasonable person" might agree with your opinion. There are others, such as privilege (I am allowed to defame you to my own lawyer), etc but as the law stands none would apply here. So there would be no occasion when DV being sued for libel would get to cross-examine or challenge CV or anyone else.

The case would be impossible to defend without finding her body in or near the pub. This is why DV wants them searched. CV would probably not even need any money to bring it; some law firm would take it on for nothing upfront and a large slice of the inevitable damages. DV is no doubt of limited means but he's got a police pension, so that could be attacked, and then of course there's the publisher.
In Finding Suzy he visits the PoW on 14/3/2019 and again on 8/5/2019.
If he was so sure there was a body there, why did he not go to the Police immediately?
Why did he go to the Press before contacting the Police? (Article in The Telegraph 23/6/2019)
According to his book, he made contact with the Police on 24/6/2019.
On the point about timings of DV's work, he is trying to show both that SJL could have gone to the PoW and that she could not have gone to 37SR. If she did the latter she can't have done the former. His meeting with KP, which established how keys were handled, was not until December 2019.
My question is surely the Police would have been duty bound to investigate whatever evidence he presented to them.
Look at any of Whitehall 1212's (generally fact-free) posts in this thread! Having failed to solve the crime, the police have decided that it fits JC and will not hear of any alternative.

If the case against JC were genuinely compelling, it would be less embarrassing for the police to admit it might be wrong. In fact it is ludicrously flimsy. They think JC is implicated by a sighting of a car he did not own (they just assume he had access to one); they never checked how many other sex offenders had been recently released from Wormwood Scrubs; they did not consider anyone a suspect who was not in Fulham that day, but they also can't place JC in Fulham, or even in London; the only "witness" did not say he saw SJL; the supposed likeness of JC to a pencil sketch was never tested in front of an ID parade; the guy who gave them the description also said he saw and then did not see SJL bundled into a car; the same witness described Mr Kipper as smartly dressed, slim and 25 to 30 then later described a podgy 44-year old as a dead ringer for Mr Kipper; the only witness who knew her and says she saw her is dismissed as wrong because her account doesn't fit the pet theory; and so on.
 
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Did this lead anywhere?



Also does anybody know how many reviews there have been in the case?
One major review commencing in 2000.

The SIO was initially changed in early 1987...possibly because the Met hierarchy were not happy at the lack of progress in such a high profile case....just my opinion though.
 
Easy answer for the Met is "Name That Tune", we've had many reasons given as to why they can't search the PoW, but with a lot of tact and diplomacy I've sure that could obtain permission to take a look and put this question beyond any doubt.

<modsnip>

If the police had sufficient evidence to apply for a search warrant then they would have done so, long ago.

This clearly shows that such evidence just does not exist and that the police successfully eliminated CV from the investigation.

Such evidence to obtain a search warrant is quite low weight, particularly in such investigations. It can just be a set of circumstances that cannot be resolved satisfactorily, e.g. Norton Barracks, Quantock Hills, Drakes Broughton, JC's mothers home.
 
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