UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #2

[Pinkizzy]

I’m not negative by nature, but I can’t help but think if JC dies and says nothing, the police will want to close the case.

I guess they WILL search the POW whether he says something or not. They have nothing to lose by searching the site

 

[Terryb808]

I guess they WILL search the POW whether he says something or not. They have nothing to lose by searching the site

Sadly I think the opposite, they’ll use his death to not search the PoW. They’ll do anything to save face and not be proven wrong.
We’ll have to wait and see.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

The prime suspect of estate agent Suzy Lamplugh's murder is on his deathbed, and her family are now hoping he will reveal the truth before he dies.

John Cannan, 68, was named by police as the chief suspect in the disappearance of 25-year-old Suzy, whose body has never been discovered since her disappearance in 1986.


Cannan is currently receiving end-of-life palliative care in prison and Suzy's family wonder if he holds the key to solving the mystery surrounding her disappearance.

But what happened to Suzy? Who is John Cannan? And what happened during the search? Here we go through the story, sharing how it stands so far.
The prime suspect of estate agent Suzy Lamplugh's murder is on his deathbed, and her family are now hoping he will reveal the truth before he dies.

John Cannan, 68, was named by police as the chief suspect in the disappearance of 25-year-old Suzy, whose body has never been discovered since her disappearance in 1986.

Cannan is currently receiving end-of-life palliative care in prison and Suzy's family wonder if he holds the key to solving the mystery surrounding her disappearance.

But what happened to Suzy? Who is John Cannan? And what happened during the search? Here we go through the story, sharing how it stands so far.

 

[WestLondoner]

I'd be more interested in what he has to say about Sandra Court.

She was last seen at her sister's house just north of Bournemouth. Her body was found in a watery ditch at Sopley to the east. Various of her personal possessions were found scattered miles apart, but all in the same direction - forming a trail towards the M3 and London. It is as though whoever killed her came from London to do so, then drove back there by the easiest route on a paper map: to Ringwood, then the A31, and finally the M3. He presumably stopped to scatter her stuff on his way. This was actually quite stupid. He probably thought this would make her harder to find or identify. Instead, as her effects were identifiable things like a handbag, it created an evidence trail showing that the killer left the scene in a car and headed for London.

Unlike the SJL case, this one does actually fit JC's known rape MO of finding a random female to prey on, his murder MO of dumping the body in water, and his habitual careless provision of evidence. See for comparison JC keeping Shirley Banks' car in his own garage and there being a document in his flat with her fingerprints on. A car park ticket places the car that JC shared in Southampton during that day (May '86).

SC was, however, seen alive at 3am; the fact that JC was in a pre-release hostel with an overnight curfew has hitherto provided him with an alibi, plus nobody saw her killed. If he was - in practice - able to get out of the hostel, and return undetected before the morning headcount or whatever, then he could have murdered her, dumped her body, and then hurriedly driven through the night back to London, perhaps chucking her stuff out of the car window.

This one fits him a lot better than SJL IMHO. His car was in the right area, he is known to have attacked randoms, and he was sufficiently smart to do this whereas nothing suggests he was anywhere near smart enough to have abducted SJL without leaving a trace.

 

[Terryb808]

I'd be more interested in what he has to say about Sandra Court.

She was last seen at her sister's house just north of Bournemouth. Her body was found in a watery ditch at Sopley to the east. Various of her personal possessions were found scattered miles apart, but all in the same direction - forming a trail towards the M3 and London. It is as though whoever killed her came from London to do so, then drove back there by the easiest route on a paper map: to Ringwood, then the A31, and finally the M3. He presumably stopped to scatter her stuff on his way. This was actually quite stupid. He probably thought this would make her harder to find or identify. Instead, as her effects were identifiable things like a handbag, it created an evidence trail showing that the killer left the scene in a car and headed for London.

Unlike the SJL case, this one does actually fit JC's known rape MO of finding a random female to prey on, his murder MO of dumping the body in water, and his habitual careless provision of evidence. See for comparison JC keeping Shirley Banks' car in his own garage and there being a document in his flat with her fingerprints on. A car park ticket places the car that JC shared in Southampton during that day (May '86).

SC was, however, seen alive at 3am; the fact that JC was in a pre-release hostel with an overnight curfew has hitherto provided him with an alibi, plus nobody saw her killed. If he was - in practice - able to get out of the hostel, and return undetected before the morning headcount or whatever, then he could have murdered her, dumped her body, and then hurriedly driven through the night back to London, perhaps chucking her stuff out of the car window.

This one fits him a lot better than SJL IMHO. His car was in the right area, he is known to have attacked randoms, and he was sufficiently smart to do this whereas nothing suggests he was anywhere near smart enough to have abducted SJL without leaving a trace.

Yes I have this one down to JC, I understand that a letter was posted to the police saying SC’s death was an accident.
The sender tried to disguise his handwriting by using his left hand. However, hand writing experts feel is was JC who sent the letter.

 

[Terryb808]

On the topic of JC, I wonder if he’ll sent the Met on one final big dig before he shuffles of this mortal coil?

 

[Crusader21]

This book renewed my interest in the SL case - Amazon.co.uk Hard to believe it's from 30 odd years ago.

There's no doubting that JC is one nasty piece of work .....

 

[Terryb808]

This book renewed my interest in the SL case - Amazon.co.uk Hard to believe it's from 30 odd years ago.

There's no doubting that JC is one nasty piece of work .....

Yes, it’s an interesting read, I think you can get this book on Kindle.
It certainly allowed me to better understand JC.

 

[WestLondoner]

On that cover photo he looks a bit like Harry H Corbett out of Steptoe and Son.

https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/11/590x/secondary/harry2-4070420.webp?r=1653475888505

Luckily for HHC, he died in 1982 which is a perfect alibi. Without it, the police might have tried to fit him up with this one.

 

[Cluesleuth]

Can I ask
Has anyone here made a freedom of information act request re key to 37 Shorrolds road?
the chq book diary and postcard?

 

[WestLondoner]

There's a FOIA exemption for live investigations, which this still is. If Cannan dies and the police close the case, it could perhaps then be FOIAed, but if anyone has tried they will certainly have been told nothing doing.

 

[Pinkizzy]

You can ask the detective in charge about the keys and cheque book

 

[shadwell]

So. I’m up to page 26 in this thread… Having foolishly replied to one of DV’s recent tweets and now inexorably finding myself pulled towards the mouth of the SJL rabbit hole.

 

[shadwell]

As a result, I am now contemplating my own book on the case - my primary thesis will be as follows:
1. Mr Kipper was a real person
2. SJL did meet him for a viewing at Shorrolds Road (seen by multiple witnesses), but he was disappointed by the property.
3. As a result, a second viewing of 123 Stevenage Road was arranged ‘ad hoc’ with SJL agreeing to drive Mr K there herself.
4. SJL and Mr K seen driving from Shorrolds Road to Stevenage Road via Fulham Palace Road by BW (yes there’s quite a big time gap between 1pm and 2.45pm but I’ll gloss over this)
5. When SJL and Mr K arrived at Stevenage Road, they found WJ was out and so were not able to access the property.
6. SJL and Mr K seen near the car by a neighbour in Stevenage Road waiting for WJ to return.
7. WJ returns home to find SJL and Mr K looking through (eg) the rear windows of 123 Stevenage Road.
8. WJ kills both SJL and Mr K, buries their bodies in the back garden and invents the 12.45 sighting of the white Fiesta to cover her tracks when she later realises it is SJL’s car.

 

[shadwell]

Admittedly I have no evidence for this, but was 123 Stevenage Road ever searched? If not, maybe now is the time…

 

[Pinkizzy]

As a result, I am now contemplating my own book on the case - my primary thesis will be as follows:
1. Mr Kipper was a real person
2. SJL did meet him for a viewing at Shorrolds Road (witnessed by HR), but he was disappointed by the property.
3. As a result, a second viewing of 123 Stevenage Road was arranged ‘ad hoc’ with SJL agreeing to drive Mr K there herself.
4. SJL and Mr K seen driving from Shorrolds Road to Stevenage Road via Fulham Palace Road by BW (yes there’s quite a big time gap between 1pm and 2.45pm but I’ll gloss over this)
5. When SJL and Mr K arrived at Stevenage Road, they found WJ was out and so were not able to access the property.
6. SJL and Mr K seen near the car by a neighbour in Stevenage Road waiting for WJ to return.
7. WJ returns home to find SJL and Mr K looking through (eg) the rear windows of 123 Stevenage Road.
8. WJ kills both SJL and Mr K, buries their bodies in the back garden and invents the 12.45 sighting of the white Fiesta to cover her tracks when she later realises it is SJL’s car.

Yep yep yep

 

[Crusader21]

As a result, I am now contemplating my own book on the case - my primary thesis will be as follows:
1. Mr Kipper was a real person
2. SJL did meet him for a viewing at Shorrolds Road (seen by multiple witnesses), but he was disappointed by the property.
3. As a result, a second viewing of 123 Stevenage Road was arranged ‘ad hoc’ with SJL agreeing to drive Mr K there herself.
4. SJL and Mr K seen driving from Shorrolds Road to Stevenage Road via Fulham Palace Road by BW (yes there’s quite a big time gap between 1pm and 2.45pm but I’ll gloss over this)
5. When SJL and Mr K arrived at Stevenage Road, they found WJ was out and so were not able to access the property.
6. SJL and Mr K seen near the car by a neighbour in Stevenage Road waiting for WJ to return.
7. WJ returns home to find SJL and Mr K looking through (eg) the rear windows of 123 Stevenage Road.
8. WJ kills both SJL and Mr K, buries their bodies in the back garden and invents the 12.45 sighting of the white Fiesta to cover her tracks when she later realises it is SJL’s car.

We've all been there trying to make things fit, good advice I've often heard is to keep it simple .....

I could say that no estate agent client card was filled in for Mr Kipper. SL had previously filled in a contact card for every client recorded in her work diary, even 'last minute' ones.

The BW sighting was too far up the Fulham Palace Road (ie north of the cemetary), to allow the fiesta to access Stevenage Rd without doubling back.

Finally(!), as DL called to WJ almost immediately with the family dog, surely the wee dog would have been pawing at the fresh graves in the garden!?!

 

[WestLondoner]

It's getting to the point where Waddingtons could issue a Suzy Lamplugh Cluedo.

"CV did it, with the Surfboard, in the phone box"

 

[WestLondoner]

As a result, I am now contemplating my own book on the case - my primary thesis will be as follows:
1. Mr Kipper was a real person
2. SJL did meet him for a viewing at Shorrolds Road (seen by multiple witnesses), but he was disappointed by the property.
3. As a result, a second viewing of 123 Stevenage Road was arranged ‘ad hoc’ with SJL agreeing to drive Mr K there herself.
4. SJL and Mr K seen driving from Shorrolds Road to Stevenage Road via Fulham Palace Road by BW (yes there’s quite a big time gap between 1pm and 2.45pm but I’ll gloss over this)
5. When SJL and Mr K arrived at Stevenage Road, they found WJ was out and so were not able to access the property.
6. SJL and Mr K seen near the car by a neighbour in Stevenage Road waiting for WJ to return.
7. WJ returns home to find SJL and Mr K looking through (eg) the rear windows of 123 Stevenage Road.
8. WJ kills both SJL and Mr K, buries their bodies in the back garden and invents the 12.45 sighting of the white Fiesta to cover her tracks when she later realises it is SJL’s car.

I enjoyed that. WJ has not received nearly enough attention as a possible suspect. And did anyone actually see the permanent PoW landlord on the M4 that day? Maybe the "holiday" was a bluff. Maybe he cunningly doubled back. Maybe he was having an affair with AL and he saw SJL as competition for his affections. Yer never know.

Does prompt an interesting thought. The plod to this day imagine that SJL's car was in Stevenage Road for a second viewing. Do we know what prices 37SR and 123SR were on at? I have a feeling the former was around £180 to £200k. If 123SR was on at a materially different price, there's no way SJL would have taken a £200k house buyer to see (e.g.) a £130k house. If you're in the market today for a £600k house, an agent's not going to show you £850k or £300k houses. One you can't afford and the other's too small. This detail would tell us whether a second viewing there was likely.

 

[Cluesleuth]

We've all been there trying to make things fit, good advice I've often heard is to keep it simple .....

I could say that no estate agent client card was filled in for Mr Kipper. SL had previously filled in a contact card for every client recorded in her work diary, even 'last minute' ones.

The BW sighting was too far up the Fulham Palace Road (ie north of the cemetary), to allow the fiesta to access Stevenage Rd without doubling back.

Finally(!), as DL called to WJ almost immediately with the family dog, surely the wee dog would have been pawing at the fresh graves in the garden!?!

re no client card
my thoughts are that this was possibly because this appointment was made via a third party, a friend maybe
Someone who SJL had been in conversation with in the days prior

BW's sighting
This is an excellent sighting from a person who knew Suzy personally.
You are right Crusader re her position on Fulham Palace road. BW says she was travelling north towards Hammersmith this is important.

The first attachment is a screenshot from the recent tv docu The Vanishing of Suzy Lamplugh its the actual police incident room at the time. In the background is a whiteboard with details that the police obviously considered of most importance at that time re the suspect male KIPPER.
Note:-
KIPPER/SKIPPER
Mall Road
Mr 'L'
2 Photofits of a Male

From this we can see that Skipper was being considering as well as Kipper - You will have to go back to SJL's Diary entry to understand why. Im not sure I can post it here as an attachment but what I can tell you that there is an S before the K.
So now we have either a Mr S Kipper, a Mr Skipper, Mrs Kipper or written in a hurry or in some sort of shorthand Mr S then Kipper. The S appears to me as a capital. This open things up quite a bit and is of course a process of elimination an open mind here I think is needed meanwhile.

Mall road
Its interesting we havent heard Mall Rd mentioned before but if it appears on the whiteboard I think its important and would make BW's sighting on Fulham Palace road of Suzy and a male on that road travelling north toward Hammersmith relevant. BW says her sighting was after 2.30pm
Mall road appears a reatively short road that leads to the rivers edge at the end of the road is The Rutland Arms pub also worthy of note a number of sculling and rowing clubs are alongside. These sports teams have a team Skipper.

*I would like to hear from anyone local to Mall road in 1986 or would have photos of the street - the Rutland arms

Mr 'L'
An interest note. is Mr Kipper/Skipper Mr 'L' or is Mr 'L' a seperate person which would put two males in the frame.

I agree in keeping things simple.