UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #2

[Cluesleuth]

It's getting to the point where Waddingtons could issue a Suzy Lamplugh Cluedo.

"CV did it, with the Surfboard, in the phone box"

I wondered if SJL, SH and AB stopped off at the POW on the Sunday evening after returning from Surfing

 

[Cluesleuth]

As a result, I am now contemplating my own book on the case - my primary thesis will be as follows:
1. Mr Kipper was a real person
2. SJL did meet him for a viewing at Shorrolds Road (seen by multiple witnesses), but he was disappointed by the property.
3. As a result, a second viewing of 123 Stevenage Road was arranged ‘ad hoc’ with SJL agreeing to drive Mr K there herself.
4. SJL and Mr K seen driving from Shorrolds Road to Stevenage Road via Fulham Palace Road by BW (yes there’s quite a big time gap between 1pm and 2.45pm but I’ll gloss over this)
5. When SJL and Mr K arrived at Stevenage Road, they found WJ was out and so were not able to access the property.
6. SJL and Mr K seen near the car by a neighbour in Stevenage Road waiting for WJ to return.
7. WJ returns home to find SJL and Mr K looking through (eg) the rear windows of 123 Stevenage Road.
8. WJ kills both SJL and Mr K, buries their bodies in the back garden and invents the 12.45 sighting of the white Fiesta to cover her tracks when she later realises it is SJL’s car.

6. I understand this witness did not personally know SJL so did she presume it was SJL that she saw near the car?
Were the female and male actually the same couple that were seen speeding away from the area in a BMW by the jogger exiting the park.
Did a female drive SJL's car to Stevenage rd and then been picked up by the male in the BMW to exit the area.
Whoever parked the Fiesta looks to have done so in haste or nervousness.

 

[WestLondoner]

6. I understand this witness did not personally know SJL so did she presume it was SJL that she saw near the car?
Were the female and male actually the same couple that were seen speeding away from the area in a BMW by the jogger exiting the park.
Did a female drive SJL's car to Stevenage rd and then been picked up by the male in the BMW to exit the area.
Whoever parked the Fiesta looks to have done so in haste or nervousness.

The claim of a couple "seen speeding away from the area in a BMW by the jogger" arose IIRC only in 2000, 14 years later, by someone who
- had never come forward before,
- now claimed to be able to remember the day, date and time of something he had in the meantime forgotten,
- was responding to a police appeal not for witnesses, but witnesses to Cannan abducting SJL, i.e. was coached,
- included inaccurate details fed to the public by the police, such as the black BMW that Cannan did not have in 1986, that prove he did not see anything, and
- who in effect helpfully saw what the police wanted someone to have seen.

These 2000-era sightings are all worthless, IMHO. If the police had asked for witnesses to SJL being bundled into an ice-cream van by someone dressed as Batman, there would have been witnesses to that as well.

The reason this case is so challenging is FMM because when you strip it down to what ought to be the most credible sightings and witness accounts, and you try to expand that into a theory, any theory is contradicted by a different bit of credible evidence or reasoning.

- BW can't have seen SJL in the FPR at 2.30 if her car was abandoned at 123SR from 1pm.
- The car can't have been abandoned at 1pm because she had only just left the office at that time.
- SJL can't have died in the PoW because nobody there had any motive and any innocent accident would have been reported
- She can't have gone to 37SR because the keys did not go missing with her, so she never took them
- She can't have been abducted off the street because of the previous point, nor was she seen elsewhere

etc...

 

[Crusader21]

Where is the S before Kipper?

 

[Cluesleuth]

Where is the S before Kipper?

just make a search on the internet for the relevent tools to use..

 

[WestLondoner]

Are you saying there's another place where she wrote down 'Kipper' as 'Skipper'?

If the police at any time thought the name was 'Skipper', this seems likelier to me to be because there was an actual 'Skipper' in her diary or the Sturgis contacts list than because she had written 'Skipper' down elsewhere.

 

[shadwell]

Are you saying there's another place where she wrote down 'Kipper' as 'Skipper'?

If the police at any time thought the name was 'Skipper', this seems likelier to me to be because there was an actual 'Skipper' in her diary or the Sturgis contacts list than because she had written 'Skipper' down elsewhere.

Skipper as in ‘captain,’ ‘chief’ or ‘boss?’

 

[shadwell]

re no client card
my thoughts are that this was possibly because this appointment was made via a third party, a friend maybe
Someone who SJL had been in conversation with in the days prior

BW's sighting
This is an excellent sighting from a person who knew Suzy personally.
You are right Crusader re her position on Fulham Palace road. BW says she was travelling north towards Hammersmith this is important.

The first attachment is a screenshot from the recent tv docu The Vanishing of Suzy Lamplugh its the actual police incident room at the time. In the background is a whiteboard with details that the police obviously considered of most importance at that time re the suspect male KIPPER.
Note:-
KIPPER/SKIPPER
Mall Road
Mr 'L'
2 Photofits of a Male

From this we can see that Skipper was being considering as well as Kipper - You will have to go back to SJL's Diary entry to understand why. Im not sure I can post it here as an attachment but what I can tell you that there is an S before the K.
So now we have either a Mr S Kipper, a Mr Skipper, Mrs Kipper or written in a hurry or in some sort of shorthand Mr S then Kipper. The S appears to me as a capital. This open things up quite a bit and is of course a process of elimination an open mind here I think is needed meanwhile.

Mall road
Its interesting we havent heard Mall Rd mentioned before but if it appears on the whiteboard I think its important and would make BW's sighting on Fulham Palace road of Suzy and a male on that road travelling north toward Hammersmith relevant. BW says her sighting was after 2.30pm
Mall road appears a reatively short road that leads to the rivers edge at the end of the road is The Rutland Arms pub also worthy of note a number of sculling and rowing clubs are alongside. These sports teams have a team Skipper.

*I would like to hear from anyone local to Mall road in 1986 or would have photos of the street - the Rutland arms

Mr 'L'
An interest note. is Mr Kipper/Skipper Mr 'L' or is Mr 'L' a seperate person which would put two males in the frame.

I agree in keeping things simple.

Mall Road or MALE RCI (should read IC1)?

 

[shadwell]

just make a search on the internet for the relevent tools to use..

??

 

[shadwell]

A couple of speculative points to go on with…

Stevenage Road - the car is found with the driver’s door unlocked, the handbrake off and the seat pushed back. But is that how it was left when parked there? Or did the garage owner, finding it blocking his access open the driver’s side door (possibly even going as far as popping the lock - easy enough back then), release the handbrake and push it forward out of his way? (Cf: James Valdez case, Arizona)

The Sunday night phone call - asking AL if he has got her diary and chequebook? Was this also the subject of the conversation with NB that night? Did she suspect that one of them might have taken it?

 

[shadwell]

In this case, AL would know that SJL’s diary was missing when questioned on the Monday evening.

 

[Cluesleuth]

Mall Road or MALE RCI (should read IC1)?

Its possible,
I enlarged it and tried darkening, contrasting it etc but couldnt find any sign of E if anything the c and l werent joined (I dont colse my d's but I admit thats nothing to go by) it look a strong R - MALL Rcl?
Its a good point tho shadwell and worth noting if it is a police typo errors thanks for taking a close look I will do a few searches on what you suggest when I get time see if anything interesting comes up.

 

[Crusader21]

just make a search on the internet for the relevent tools to use..

Lost me.

Esda test maybe? But obviously with an imprint the S would be on a previous page.

Are you suggesting SLs intial ledger has been tampered with???

 

[Cluesleuth]

A couple of speculative points to go on with…

Stevenage Road - the car is found with the driver’s door unlocked, the handbrake off and the seat pushed back. But is that how it was left when parked there? Or did the garage owner, finding it blocking his access open the driver’s side door (possibly even going as far as popping the lock - easy enough back then), release the handbrake and push it forward out of his way? (Cf: James Valdez case, Arizona)

The Sunday night phone call - asking AL if he has got her diary and chequebook? Was this also the subject of the conversation with NB that night? Did she suspect that one of them might have taken it?

Wouldn't his fingerprints be on the handbrake though?

I don't know about others but I'm not clear about when she realised she had actually lost it

 

[Cluesleuth]

Lost me.

Esda test maybe? But obviously with an imprint the S would be on a previous page.

Are you suggesting SLs intial ledger has been tampered with???

Its possible not everything on the page would be made public, there are usually sound reasons for this.
imprinting from a previous or next page would appear differently than the script written directly on the diary page.

This is just my opinions only Im by no means an expert.

 

[Crusader21]

.

 

[Crusader21]

I think it's safe to say that SL had written 'Mr Kipper' in her work diary.

Admittedly the police incident board of 'Kipper / Skipper' is a strange one.

Remember the police on TV docs pushed the 'JC was known as Mr Kipper in prison' line too ....

 

[Pinkizzy]

Search SL on Getty images/videos and you'll see a Mr S Kipper written on a whiteboard

 

[Pinkizzy]

Here it is:

Suzy Lamplugh's Disappearance; ENGLAND CS Diary opened, ZOOM IN on...

Suzy Lamplugh's Disappearance; ENGLAND CS Diary opened, ZOOM IN on hand written entry Mr Kipper Various of police room with people working at desk and information on missing girl on board, along with...

www.gettyimages.co.uk

 

[Cluesleuth]

For anyone interested this is another shot of the whiteboard unfortunately obscurred by detective head.
I have no idea who these surnames/names relate to so please bear that in mind. Like me you might just find it useful to keep on file.
again this is just a snapshot from the tv screening of The Vanishing of Suzy Lamplugh so not the best quality