UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #2

[Terryb808]

Suzy’s Car - Some Questions

I have a theory about why Suzy’s car was found in the condition it was and thought I’d ask for everyone else’s view?
1. Why was the drivers door left unlocked?
2. Why was the handbrake off?
3. Why were the ignition keys taken?
4. Why was Suzy’s purse still inside?
5. Why was the passengers door locked?
This might seem minor, but it could explain what happened to Suzy, however, it all depends on making assumptions.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

It would certainly explain both DV’s assertion that SJL didn’t take the keys to 37 SR, she just reposition them. The couple seen outside by HR looking for a lunchtime quickie realised they had the wrong keys and went elsewhere.
MG would have know this was going on, which may be why he went round twice.
He might have thought she had gone there for the same reason.
None of this can be proven and at the time none of the Sturgis staff are going to own up, not good for business.

So the place to start is by re-visiting the Sturgis staff at the time, and encouraging them to disclose the complete picture of office practices and what was going on at the time that SJL disappeared.

I don't believe that the abduction was by someone unknown to SJL. If SJL had been meeting a new and unknown client then there would have been a record card in the Sturgis index, irrespective of whether the given data was bogus. I suspect that Sturgis would carry out some due diligence on new clients to confirm their address and contact details.

In which case SJL's abductor was known to her and that caused her guard to be lowered and for him to abduct with little difficulty and much less risk. So the identity of her abductor most likely lies in SLP's work and/or social life.

That SJP seems to have engaged in concurrent short term flings and more established relationships and possibly some interesting business dealings, neither of which would have met the approval of her parents demographic, she was naturally very guarded in what she said to whom. This makes for a difficult and complex investigation.

Maybe the passage of time and the very sad death of her parents, will now encourage those she knew to tell what they felt unable to at the time.

MOO

 

[Whitehall 1212]

DBM - Duplicate post

 

[Konstantin]

Agree - it also seems beyond argument to me that, if you were a recently released sex offender, you would not use your prison nickname. It wouldn't be a particularly cunning ruse to throw the search off the scent, would it? If you were known as Jack the Hat McVitie and you've decided to abduct an estate agent, you're not going to imagine calling yourself Mr The Hat is somehow going to cover your tracks.

And that's even if it is true that JC was ever known as 'Kipper' before 1989. The variety of rationales given for this make no sense. He liked kippers? He kipped a lot? He wore kipper ties (in prison)? I reckon he was no more known as Kipper in 1986 than he drove a BMW in 1986.

Exactly... and it seems that in fact he wasn't actually known as Kipper in prison. At least not until after he was accused in the media of this crime. Also come on. JC is a narcissist, he thinks he is gods gift, he would not call himself a stupid name.

AS talks about how the police actually had a card on their system where they listed all the possible meanings of Kipper and clearly this went nowhere. The public were phoning in noting that if you called him Dan Kipper it was an anagram of kidnapper and maybe it was about the Jewish holiday of Yom Kippur and so on.

In fact this obvious pseudonym can really mean just two things,

1. Suzy went out to meet someone she did not know who intended her harm. He posed as a real client and gave himself a daft made up name knowing he intended her some sort of harm up ahead (no one would give their real name then abduct and murder someone)

2. Suzy went out to meet someone she did know and gave this person a fake name because she didn't want Sturgis to know who she was meeting, for whatever reason she had.

If (1) why did Suzy not put his details on their card system which was noted by AS as highly unusual for her and for the office in general. The only reason is because he made the appointment last minute and she had no time. Also it is a coincidence that Suzy knew a kipper in Shorrolds Road (but there were a few other coincidences with this case, they happen.)

If (2) Suzy didn't intend tihs to be a long meeting because she left her bag with her stuff apart from her purse (so she might have thought she'd buy lunch) in her office, including her make up/lipstick. If you were a young woman going to see a man you fancied or were going out with you'd prob take your make up?

 

[WestLondoner]

By my count AS has SJL four-timing AL the week before she disappeared. He doesn't expressly say so but he indicates two ongoing casual relationships plus another plus AL.

It would have taken quite a lot of management to accomplish this, and to prevent her life turning into Confessions of an Estate Agent with herself as a sort of a female Robin Askwith. She would have needed to play her cards very close to her chest and probably also limit where she saw various of these partners by location, i.e. if she ever went to the PoW with #1, she would make sure she never went there with #2 to #4.

 

[Konstantin]

So the place to start is by re-visiting the Sturgis staff at the time, and encouraging them to disclose the complete picture of office practices and what was going on at the time that SJL disappeared.

I don't believe that the abduction was by someone unknown to SJL. If SJL had been meeting a new and unknown client then there would have been a record card in the Sturgis index, irrespective of whether the given data was bogus. I suspect that Sturgis would carry out some due diligence on new clients to confirm their address and contact details.

That's what DV did to his credit. Although he didn't ask about client details being recorded, he asked about the situation regarding who could go out for lunch when and what was happening on the day Suzy disappeared. Briefly he reported that:

-- The office was short staffed and as there had to be a fee earner in the office at all times to answer phones, in order for her to go out on that day Suzy would have needed to have a legit house viewing appointment.

DV uses this as an argument in favour of his theory that Suzy faked the appointment to go to the pub.

-- MG was out at lunch that day with the big boss who didn't work in the branch but who came in to the office that morning and was a stickler for rules being followed, DV uses this to bolster his argument that Suzy would have felt compelled to make up a viewing to leave the office (however he also claims she never took the keys which undermines him a bit here I think)

-- Suzy had had a row that morning with another member of her team over a house buyer, the row seemed to be kind of routine though in that environment, but it might have fueled her thinking, I am going to go out this lunchtime. Speculation though.

AS talks about the office policies around recording clients and it was very unusal indeed that Suzy didn't record Mr Kipper. Especially if she had made the appointment on the Saturday. Suzy was very keen to make sales, not recording someone's details could mean you can't contact them over sales.

My feeling is she made up Mr Kipper and she went to meet someone she knew and willingly went with them. She had other relationships that she didn't disclose. She was a social climber and whoever it was would have been part of that world she was trying to move into.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

It would certainly explain both DV’s assertion that SJL didn’t take the keys to 37 SR, she just reposition them. The couple seen outside by HR looking for a lunchtime quickie realised they had the wrong keys and went elsewhere.
MG would have know this was going on, which may be why he went round twice.
He might have thought she had gone there for the same reason.
None of this can be proven and at the time none of the Sturgis staff are going to own up, not good for business.

I guess we have all given this a great deal of thought and come up with many possibilities. What seems most logical to me, and I do consider how JC repainted SB's mini and hid it in a garage after abducting her.

I think that SJP was abducted from her own vehicle and taken to a property not far from Stevenage Road....or entered the property willingly before being overpowered. SJP's abductor secured her, still alive, but realising that her car near the premises could identify where she was, he quickly moved it elsewhere, wanting to return to SJP as soon as possible.

There is a sense of panic in the way the car was abandoned. If SJP had fled from the car in a panic pursued by her abductor then I really think that there would have been witnesses report it.

MOO

 

[Whitehall 1212]

By my count AS has SJL four-timing AL the week before she disappeared. He doesn't expressly say so but he indicates two ongoing casual relationships plus another plus AL.

It would have taken quite a lot of management to accomplish this, and to prevent her life turning into Confessions of an Estate Agent with herself as a sort of a female Robin Askwith. She would have needed to play her cards very close to her chest and probably also limit where she saw various of these partners by location, i.e. if she ever went to the PoW with #1, she would make sure she never went there with #2 to #4.

I'd say meet them a vacant/furnished properties.....perfect cover.

 

[WestLondoner]

Exactly... and it seems that in fact he wasn't actually known as Kipper in prison. At least not until after he was accused in the media of this crime. Also come on. JC is a narcissist, he thinks he is gods gift, he would not call himself a stupid name.

Agree. JC called himself Jessop and John Peterson on other occasions: unremarkable fake names. The problem with 'Kipper' is that nobody's really called that, so if you use that as an alias, it invites disbelief. ISTR from AS that the police found out pretty quickly there was literally nobody of that name in the UK. Kuyper or Kuiper are Dutch / Flemish names but why would SJL or anyone else pick one of those?

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Agree. JC called himself Jessop and John Peterson on other occasions: unremarkable fake names. The problem with 'Kipper' is that nobody's really called that, so if you use that as an alias, it invites disbelief. ISTR from AS that the police found out pretty quickly there was literally nobody of that name in the UK. Kuyper or Kuiper are Dutch / Flemish names but why would SJL or anyone else pick one of those?

If SJL knew the man identified as Mr K, it would be fair to assume that if she had met him 'socially' she would only know his forename or a bogus one. Only more formal introductions tend to include surnames, certainly in the mid 80's.

On the basis that she was meeting the guy she knows as John, Fred etc this is not appropriate for the Sturgis diary as it reveals an unprofessional formality, whilst not confirming who the actual client is, as surname would tend to do, unless Smith, Jones etc.

So SJL has agreed to meet the guy she knows as John, Fred etc in Shorrolds Road O/S 37. She needs a surname for the entry. She sees Wardo Avenue already in the diary for 18:00 and has arranged to meet in Shorrolds. This makes her think of her 'associate' Haddock who lived in Wardo but now lives in Shorrolds. She may know that he has a nickname of Kip or Kipper and SLJ apparently had a way of assigning people amusing monikers....at that moment "Mr Kipper" was born......quite possibly the most tragic red herring in history!

 

[Konstantin]

Agree. JC called himself Jessop and John Peterson on other occasions: unremarkable fake names. The problem with 'Kipper' is that nobody's really called that, so if you use that as an alias, it invites disbelief. ISTR from AS that the police found out pretty quickly there was literally nobody of that name in the UK. Kuyper or Kuiper are Dutch / Flemish names but why would SJL or anyone else pick one of those?

She wouldn't.

One thing also that stood out to me re the abandoning of the car, and someone correct me if I am wrong.

Stevenage Road is a dead end, correct? Actually abandoning a car on a dead end road is a nice idea because dead end roads will have less through traffic... actually NO through traffic. You will drive there only because you need to not to use it as a bypass.

So the side of the road the car was abandoned on could tell us whether the person who abandoned it was local enough to know this was a dead end road. If you didn't know that, you might drive to the end, realise your mistake, turn round and park on your left, i.e. facing AWAY from the dead end. If you knew it was a dead end you might not want to go all the way down, face having to turn around if no parking space, and risk someone seeing you driving up and down, so you park on your left FACING toward the dead end.

Which way was the car parked, facing toward the dead end or away from it?

Its a long shot tbh as the culprit might have just seen a vacant space and gone into it.

 

[Konstantin]

So SJL has agreed to meet the guy she knows as John, Fred etc in Shorrolds Road O/S 37. She needs a surname for the entry. She sees Wardo Avenue already in the diary for 18:00 and has arranged to meet in Shorrolds. This makes her think of her 'associate' Haddock who lived in Wardo but now lives in Shorrolds. She may know that he has a nickname of Kip or Kipper and SLJ apparently had a way of assigning people amusing monikers....at that moment "Mr Kipper" was born......quite possibly the most tragic red herring in history!

Most likely this.

She put the full name of the client for her 6pm appointment.

She didn't put a fake first name because she's not good at making fake names. It's already a lie, she doesn't like adding to it with a fake Christian name. She's done it in a hurry as well. It does suggest that whoever made the appointment called her and asked her to meet them that day, not Saturday.

Maybe someone she did meet at that party that weekend then?

Regarding her arranging to go to the pub at 6, her appointment at 6 might have taken all of 10 minutes so she could have intended to drive from there to the pub, job done.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

She wouldn't.

One thing also that stood out to me re the abandoning of the car, and someone correct me if I am wrong.

Stevenage Road is a dead end, correct? Actually abandoning a car on a dead end road is a nice idea because dead end roads will have less through traffic... actually NO through traffic. You will drive there only because you need to not to use it as a bypass.

So the side of the road the car was abandoned on could tell us whether the person who abandoned it was local enough to know this was a dead end road. If you didn't know that, you might drive to the end, realise your mistake, turn round and park on your left, i.e. facing AWAY from the dead end. If you knew it was a dead end you might not want to go all the way down, face having to turn around if no parking space, and risk someone seeing you driving up and down, so you park on your left FACING toward the dead end.

Which way was the car parked, facing toward the dead end or away from it?

Its a long shot tbh as the culprit might have just seen a vacant space and gone into it.

Confirming on Street View, Stevenage Road is not a dead end as such. There is now an access restriction about half way along Stevenage Road between Harbord Street and Inglethorpe Street, although that may not have existed in 1986.

There are still plenty of side roads to turn up and either end of Stevenage Road continues onto other roads, which meet with Fulham Palace Road, which is a main thoroughfare in the area.

The car was parked with the offside door nearest the kerb facing against the flow of traffic (facing north). Looking at Street View the available parking spaces are predominantly on the east kerb as driveway access opposite limits the available parking....lots of yellow lines there now.

SJL's car was found on Stevenage Road approximately fifty metres south of Langthorne Street, adjacent to a garage entrance directly off the pavement.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

 

[Terryb808]

I guess we have all given this a great deal of thought and come up with many possibilities. What seems most logical to me, and I do consider how JC repainted SB's mini and hid it in a garage after abducting her.

I think that SJP was abducted from her own vehicle and taken to a property not far from Stevenage Road....or entered the property willingly before being overpowered. SJP's abductor secured her, still alive, but realising that her car near the premises could identify where she was, he quickly moved it elsewhere, wanting to return to SJP as soon as possible.

There is a sense of panic in the way the car was abandoned. If SJP had fled from the car in a panic pursued by her abductor then I really think that there would have been witnesses report it.

MOO

The way the car was left in Stevenage Road tends to indicate this, the fact that when it was abandoned the drivers door was unlocked, but the passenger door was locked. IMO this indicates SJL willingly went with or left her car of her own free will. Otherwise the passenger door would have been unlocked if she had been forced out and into a property to be restrained.
As you say the perpetrator was in a hurry to get back to the property where SJL was, this applies equally to DV’s theory as it does to another person abducting her.
Depending on who the perpetrator was it’s not necessarily going to be a property near Stevenage Road.
For example if the perpetrator (and there’s no evidence to support this) was JC, he would most likely have access to a property nearer the Wormwood Scrubs hostel.
Being further away would make the hasty way her car was abandoned fit with this thinking.
We do not and will not get access to the original information (such as witness statements) and as someone has already said it’s like trying to do a jigsaw puzzle without the picture, not impossible, but very difficult.

 

[Cluesleuth]

A question for the car buffs out there what is the make and model of the car in this photo

Missing Estate Agent Suzy Lamplugh Abduction Editorial Stock Photo - Stock Image | Shutterstock Editorial

Find the editorial stock photo of Missing Estate Agent Suzy Lamplugh Abduction, and more photos in the Shutterstock collection of editorial photography. 1000s of new photos added daily.

www.shutterstock.com

 

[Cluesleuth]

Confirming on Street View, Stevenage Road is not a dead end as such. There is now an access restriction about half way along Stevenage Road between Harbord Street and Inglethorpe Street, although that may not have existed in 1986.

There are still plenty of side roads to turn up and either end of Stevenage Road continues onto other roads, which meet with Fulham Palace Road, which is a main thoroughfare in the area.

The car was parked with the offside door nearest the kerb facing against the flow of traffic (facing north). Looking at Street View the available parking spaces are predominantly on the east kerb as driveway access opposite limits the available parking....lots of yellow lines there now.

SJL's car was found on Stevenage Road approximately fifty metres south of Langthorne Street, adjacent to a gargage entrance directly off the pavement.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

It looked very different back then if you look on Shutterstock

Missing Estate Agent Suzy Lamplughs Ford Editorial Stock Photo - Stock Image | Shutterstock Editorial

Find the editorial stock photo of Missing Estate Agent Suzy Lamplughs Ford, and more photos in the Shutterstock collection of editorial photography. 1000s of new photos added daily.

www.shutterstock.com

 

[Whitehall 1212]

The way the car was left in Stevenage Road tends to indicate this, the fact that when it was abandoned the drivers door was unlocked, but the passenger door was locked. IMO this indicates SJL willingly went with or left her car of her own free will. Otherwise the passenger door would have been unlocked if she had been forced out and into a property to be restrained.
As you say the perpetrator was in a hurry to get back to the property where SJL was, this applies equally to DV’s theory as it does to another person abducting her.
Depending on who the perpetrator was it’s not necessarily going to be a property near Stevenage Road.
For example if the perpetrator (and there’s no evidence to support this) was JC, he would most likely have access to a property nearer the Wormwood Scrubs hostel.
Being further away would make the hasty way her car was abandoned fit with this thinking.
We do not and will not get access to the original information (such as witness statements) and as someone has already said it’s like trying to do a jigsaw puzzle without the picture, not impossible, but very difficult.

If it was JC and my belief is that it was, then I feel he used the estate agents to identify vacant properties to hold a victim for a short time, if not to squat in. Maybe he had keys, maybe he forced entry....not difficult. Fulham was not as gentrified in 1986 as it is now.....photos of SR at the time demonstrate this.

He was released from the the Scrubs half-way house on the Friday 25th July. If he intended staying in London, for even a short while he would have needed somewhere to stay.....I suspect his options were limited.

JC would most likely have got all dressed up for the court case at Birmingham when he was sent down in 1981. He would have arrived at HMP Bristol wearing it and it would have followed him to Portland and then the Scrubs. Maybe he was earning some money whilst working at the prop hire company in Acton, so he could have presented as he would wish.

If, as I believe, SLJ's abductor dumped the car after she was held somewhere, then my gut instinct is that he would not drive the car further than a mile and quite possibly a much shorter distance, just away from where SJL was being held.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

A question for the car buffs out there what is the make and model of the car in this photo

Missing Estate Agent Suzy Lamplugh Abduction Editorial Stock Photo - Stock Image | Shutterstock Editorial

Find the editorial stock photo of Missing Estate Agent Suzy Lamplugh Abduction, and more photos in the Shutterstock collection of editorial photography. 1000s of new photos added daily.

www.shutterstock.com

Looks to me like a Peugeot 205 - 4 door

Manufactured from 1983 - 1998

Won a fair few awards

Peugeot 205 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/gallery/PEUGEOT-205-5-doors-2598_15.jpg

 

[WestLondoner]

A question for the car buffs out there what is the make and model of the car in this photo

Missing Estate Agent Suzy Lamplugh Abduction Editorial Stock Photo - Stock Image | Shutterstock Editorial

Find the editorial stock photo of Missing Estate Agent Suzy Lamplugh Abduction, and more photos in the Shutterstock collection of editorial photography. 1000s of new photos added daily.

www.shutterstock.com

It's a Peugeot 205.

You still see the odd one about but these are usually the pocket rocket GTI models, which had three doors. The more humble cooking models, like this one, had five.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

It looked very different back then if you look on Shutterstock

Missing Estate Agent Suzy Lamplughs Ford Editorial Stock Photo - Stock Image | Shutterstock Editorial

Find the editorial stock photo of Missing Estate Agent Suzy Lamplughs Ford, and more photos in the Shutterstock collection of editorial photography. 1000s of new photos added daily.

www.shutterstock.com

Yep, much more gentrified now....SW London ££££

I'd compared that photo with Street View just to make sure....ident as far I am concerned.