UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #3

[Whitehall 1212]

Perhaps if the police want to restore public faith they should understand that any review of a case should be carried out by an Independant Review Board.
Police policing themselves in unacceptable.

The police aren't looking to 'restore faith' in this case. There is no question of corruption or that the investigation was flawed. Errors were made in the original investigation, due to the overwhelming response from the public. The review was a thorough one and resulted in the police confirming there was only "one suspect".

That you don't like the conclusion of the police investigation is irrelevant. They have all the information and evidence, which you have not seen. How is this rational basis that presents a need for the police to "restore faith"?

I would like to see ALL police complaints investigated by an independent body, not just the serious ones or self referred ones by police forces, which are dealt with by the IOPC.

In terms of investigation reviews it would just not be practical. It would need people qualified and experienced in major investigation and that would be the police. A review would also require the investigators to hold the office of constable to provide the lawful powers needed to carry out specific tasks.

Some reviews have been referred to other forces to investigate. This is a half-way house, but it has previously presented serious problems.

 

[ruby925]

Good thinking, but assuming the abductor was with her in the passenger seat he then locked it after himself. Seems odd.

Agreed. I had Fiesta cars late 80s, think you could lock the door by pressing the black button down near the window, then hold the exterior handle as you closed the door.

 

[Cluesleuth]

Just read this, its a uncanny coincidence isn't it?

Indeed it is.

Research pays off

 

[WestLondoner]

Agreed. I had Fiesta cars late 80s, think you could lock the door by pressing the black button down near the window, then hold the exterior handle as you closed the door.

Just so. It could definitely be done but it's a funny thing to do in the sort of hurry an abductor presumably would be in.

 

[WestLondoner]

Indeed it is.

Research pays off

All quite occult...I have often thought that if Dr Who were real he would be a wanted man all over the cosmos. Literally dozens of youg people have disappeared when he's around.

 

[WestLondoner]

Has it ever been established what MG's car was? He told DV it was an XR3i but in the CW reconstruction they show a red XR2. The former is a size bigger; both are the performance models. You never forget what cars you have owned - well, blokes don't - so unless that is a typo, I'm inclined to think the XR3i is correct. Whatever the colour, XR3s were festooned with black plastic and the rear view does look a lot like a 3-Series BMW.

Establishing that MG double-parked an XR3 outside 37SR would explain both Mr Kipper (it was him) and the supposed BMW (it was MG's XR3).

 

[Cluesleuth]

All quite occult...I have often thought that if Dr Who were real he would be a wanted man all over the cosmos. Literally dozens of youg people have disappeared when he's around.

I will let you know if I can establish he/they have/shown interest in it

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Or t

Unless there weren't any drinkers because the pub was closed?!

Or barely anyone was around, as I previously shared on this thread, I worked for pubs on a freelance basis for many years and have worked in literally thousands of premises of different types, locations, ownership, management style.

I am absolutely certain that many pubs in nice areas have nil customers early in the day. There is often only one bar staff, could be the manager themselves and one kitchen staff (if the pub even serves lunches).

Even with a few customers dotted around, It is absolutely possible a person could come in, ask to speak to the manager, and be shown to the back room, side room, cellar, upstairs area, managers office, and no-one would notice or recall (esp if never asked!. Later, when the public was told estate agent SJL was abducted from SR by a stalker, together with his image ~ why would anyone then consider the nice young woman who nipped in the that morning to collect something was in fact SJL?!

 

[Whitehall 1212]

So it surely was lost on the Sunday. AL said that the PoW wasn't the sort of place he and SJL would ever have gone.

Has no one suggested that AL took SJL's items on the Friday (possibly in Mossop's) as he was suspicious that SJL was cheating on him and was seeking evidence? SJL had a full on weekend with friends and may not have realised that the items were missing until the Monday morning, when the bank contacted her.

AL may also have been following SJL to see who she was with and saw her go to to the PoW on the Sunday evening. He deliberately left them at a convenient spot at the PoW and observed that they were collected by the staff at closing, knowing or believing that the cheque book/bank would be their route back to SJL.

AL was eliminated of any involvement in SJL's subsequent disappearance.

his temporary manager never said a word.

This was a major crime investigation, being treated as a murder. Witnesses will have been told not to discuss their contact with police, which could taint the evidence of other witnesses or otherwise undermine the investigation.

It's truly amazing actually. If I were to be interviewed by the police at work, in relation to something that had happened at work, I would absolutely have to disclose that to management, it would have to be reported up the line and indeed my firm would probably have a lawyer attend any interview.

Once again, my above response applies and you will find that many employment contracts will often state that in the event of police enquiries in the workplace you are not expected to make any disclosure to the company. Disclosure outside of the investigation to a third party, could result in being investigated for attempting to pervert the course of justice.

If being interviewed as a witness why would you want legal advice? That would be a red flag for any police investigation!

We know CV didn't tell KF because when DV spoke to him he said she knew nothing about it and was aghast that DV had spoken to her.

Once again I refer you to my responses above. It is this lack of knowledge of police procedure that gives rise to major misunderstanding, miscalculation and misinterpretation of how/why things happen as they do. I will endeavour to inform and explain to hopefully avoid such error.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Has it ever been established what MG's car was? He told DV it was an XR3i but in the CW reconstruction they show a red XR2. The former is a size bigger; both are the performance models. You never forget what cars you have owned - well, blokes don't - so unless that is a typo, I'm inclined to think the XR3i is correct. Whatever the colour, XR3s were festooned with black plastic and the rear view does look a lot like a 3-Series BMW.

Establishing that MG double-parked an XR3 outside 37SR would explain both Mr Kipper (it was him) and the supposed BMW (it was MG's XR3).

Cars of the period were square, not sleek, with square backs and square rear light clusters. This comparison could be made with a whole fleet of different makes and models.

If a witness says they saw a BMW, then that is specific as it shows they know what a BMW is and how to identify one. As a detective I would respond with "how did you identify that it was a BMW"? I would then ask further questions to narrow down the model, design and any unique features, e.g. damage, stickers.

Detectives ask the right kind of questions to drill down into the detail, they don't just write down the first statement from the witness and go on their merry way. I have taken detailed statements that took 2-3 hours, as I used cognitive memory techniques with significant witnesses to draw out as much detail as possible.

It is also important to note that the detail in the public domain from the witness statements in SR, will not be all the detail. Significant elements will not have been released by the police as they will support the credibility of further witnesses who describe something that has not been prompted by the publicity, yet corroborates what other witnesses have said.....hence why witnesses are told not to say they have provided a statement.

 

[WestLondoner]

Indeed it is.

Research pays off

It does indeed. Another good one is reading the actual books on the case. It's amazing what you learn compared to not reading them.

 

[Terryb808]

Or t


Or barely anyone was around, as I previously shared on this thread, I worked for pubs on a freelance basis for many years and have worked in literally thousands of premises of different types, locations, ownership, management style.

I am absolutely certain that many pubs in nice areas have nil customers early in the day. There is often only one bar staff, could be the manager themselves and one kitchen staff (if the pub even serves lunches).

Even with a few customers dotted around, It is absolutely possible a person could come in, ask to speak to the manager, and be shown to the back room, side room, cellar, upstairs area, managers office, and no-one would notice or recall (esp if never asked!. Later, when the public was told estate agent SJL was abducted from SR by a stalker, together with his image ~ why would anyone then consider the nice young woman who nipped in the that morning to collect something was in fact SJL?!

There are two side doors on Oxford Rd, you could pull up outside and meet someone from the pub there. No one is likely to have noticed this, especially if they’re not asked.

 

[Pinkizzy]

Someone mentioned SJLs house viewing on Waldemar Road, wouldn't the staff at the Wimbledon branch of Sturgis have this property on their books?

 

[Cluesleuth]

There are two side doors on Oxford Rd, you could pull up outside and meet someone from the pub there. No one is likely to have noticed this, especially if they’re not asked.

Personally I think this was a cool calm collected and well planned abduction carried out by a group of individuals.

If you stay true to the witness accounts of people seen at Shorrolds and Stevenage rd's its points to more than one person.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

It does indeed. Another good one is reading the actual books on the case. It's amazing what you learn compared to not reading them.

AS - Very informative
CBD - Enlightening
DV - High dubious motives, poor interview skills and falls into the trap of making the 'evidence' fit the desired theory, whilst dismissing established evidence without reason! Assessment from listening to DV's podcast

Additionally, some knowledge of how UK police conduct major investigations and their powers will prove highly valuable in aiding understanding and providing context when following all UK WS threads

 

[Cluesleuth]

Does someone have the link to video with the lady saying she saw two men and a woman on Stevenage

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Someone mentioned SJLs house viewing on Waldemar Road, wouldn't the staff at the Wimbledon branch of Sturgis have this property on their books?

Waldemar Avenue, SW6 (Fulham) not Waldemar Road, SW19 (Wimbledon)

 

[WestLondoner]

There is a Waldemar Road in SW19 but a Waldemar Avenue in SW12 (I.e. Fulham). I don't think there's any way a Fulham office would be doing views of a place in Wimbledon so I guess Avenue is what was meant. It's about halfway from Sturgis to 123SR.

Fulham proper is only about a mile and a bit across so most Fulham addresses are near each other.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Personally I think this was a cool calm collected and well planned abduction carried out by a group of individuals.

If you stay true to the witness accounts of people seen at Shorrolds and Stevenage rd's its points to more than one person.

Are you referring to the two males seen in the car in SR, looking straight ahead and not talking?

 

[Whitehall 1212]

There is a Waldemar Road in SW19 but a Waldemar Avenue in SW12 (I.e. Fulham). I don't think there's any way a Fulham office would be doing views of a place in Wimbledon so I guess Avenue is what was meant. It's about halfway from Sturgis to 123SR.

Fulham proper is only about a mile and a bit across so most Fulham addresses are near each other.

Waldemar Ave is SW6 not SW12....details!