UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #3

[Crusader21]

Yes this book was rightly criticised, our two polar opposite posters may actually agree too on their dislike of it! But it does contain info on the van swerving to avoid SLs fiesta @Cluesleuth !

Full book below ...

Searching for Suzy

This is a chronology of a private investigation into the disappearance of Suzy Lamplugh, the London Estate Agent. It began on the 28th July 1999 and lasted for four years. The research revealed a direct link between Suzy and John West - the younger brother of Fred West. At first the research was...

books.google.co.uk

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Yes it does, but I'm sure you'll admit it's very messy.

It appears the JC conference contains a form of words that the Downing St press office would doth their caps to ...

I don't agree it's messy.

As I alluded to earlier, the case was/is very high profile, the parents were proactive and high profile and the original investigation made errors under the weight of information into the incident room.

The review from 2000 would have wished to gather enough evidence for a charge and conviction. Unfortunately, that crumb of comfort couldn't be offered to the Lamplugh's.

The police took the highly unusual step, quite possibly with the Lamplugh's tacit approval, to make the announcement they did.

After all that had happened I think the police felt that it was essential to explain where they were at and that as things stood they had done all they could.

 

[Crusader21]

@Cluesleuth Page 215

21st July 2000 crimewatch had the confirmation by a van driver the Suzy was with a male passenger driving erratically down Kelvedon Road towards Fulham Road.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Yes this book was rightly criticised, our two polar opposite posters may actually agree too on their dislike of it! But it does contain info on the van swerving to avoid SLs fiesta @Cluesleuth !

Full book below ...

Searching for Suzy

This is a chronology of a private investigation into the disappearance of Suzy Lamplugh, the London Estate Agent. It began on the 28th July 1999 and lasted for four years. The research revealed a direct link between Suzy and John West - the younger brother of Fred West. At first the research was...

books.google.co.uk

Well SJL was born in Cheltenham so I'm sure that was levered into the surreptitious five degrees of separation.

I can think of links that would connect me to Peter Sutcliffe in two steps and Reggie Kray in one! Don't worry they are all above board!

 

[Crusader21]

Unfortunately there's no July 2000 Crimewatch on you tube, there is this one from that year though, ffwd to 8.40

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Thing about this van driver and fiesta swerve, if it was on Crimewatch then obviously the police viewed it as credible and worthy of putting it in the public domain ...

 

[Crusader21]

I see Kelvedon Rd is equally accessible from Radipole Rd and Shorrolds Rd.

Can anyone source the SL appeal / footage from July 2000 Crimewatch?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

You are aware that the Met Police had escalated SJL's disappearance from 'missing person enquiry' to 'murder' enquiry before daylight on Tuesday 29th July.....the morning after SJL's disappearance?

This is why the publicity was so intense, so quickly. They had to find any witnesses fast, whilst their recollection would still be fresh.

Well that is indeed a rapid escalation. Unheard of actually very odd in and of itself. Altho SJL did meet the criteria of what is nowadays called 'missing white woman' privilege.

It's a shame her case was propelled, rocketed even, into a narrowly specific (and likely completely incorrect) direction. When people who aren't the police do such forceful misdirection using public institutions and the mainstream media, it's usually called propaganda / brainwashing or even worse things.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Why was it labelled a murder enquiry so quickly as opposed to missing person / potential abduction?

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Well that is indeed a rapid escalation. Unheard of actually very odd in and of itself. Altho SJL did meet the criteria of what is nowadays called 'missing white woman' privilege.
For
It's a shame her case was propelled, rocketed even, into a narrowly specific (and likely completely incorrect) direction. When people who aren't the police do such forceful misdirection using public institutions and the mainstream media, it's usually called propaganda / brainwashing or even worse things.

With just a time that SLJ left Sturgis, a diary entry for a viewing at 37 Shorrolds Road and SLJ's apparently hastily abandoned car opposite 123 Stevenson Road how would you have approached it?

You don't have time to waste.

 

[Crusader21]

Why was it labelled a murder enquiry so quickly as opposed to missing person / potential abduction?

Imo because HR 'saw' SL bundled into a white van! Words he later retracted!

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Imo because HR 'saw' SL bundled into a white van! Words he later retracted!

If that happened it was unfortunate. Eye witness testimony will alway be treated with healthy scepticism. That HR didn't call the police when he 'saw' the bundling into the van would have been a point for discussion with HR as to the veracity of his statement.

However, the hastily abandoned way that SJL's car was found would have been the credible evidence that it was a lot more than a missing person enquiry.

 

[WestLondoner]

1. Major incidents and running towards the danger to protect life

Westminster terror attack: White feather for ‘cowardly’ Met boss who hid in his car​

The 74 Met Police officers who brought shame on the force this year

 

[Crusader21]

If HR did indeed retract the 'bundling incident', how could the police still have faith in him, with his descriptions becoming the photo-fits etc?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

With just a time that SLJ left Sturgis, a diary entry for a viewing at 37 Shorrolds Road and SLJ's apparently hastily abandoned car opposite 123 Stevenson Road how would you have approached it?

You don't have time to waste.

I'm sure we all know here on this forum of all places that's not ever how the metropolitan police handle a case of an adult woman being reported missing with zero evidence or reports of anything untoward. Not even with missing children they don't. Even the car being parked awkwardly and hurriedly with the seat pushed back really was not proof of anything at that time as there were so much confusion as to whether it was being shared or someone else was took it and SJL hadn't driven it at all.

You are a very evidence based person - when in the history of time have the police ever announced someone murdered so quickly, off the back of zero evidence? It's crazy stuff. Why didn't they say missing in suspicious circumstances or possibly abducted or held hostage? Why weren't they looking for a potentially alive SJL and had effectively declared her dead!? How dare they officially declare someone dead! The police have a heck of a lot to answer IMO. Pushing the narrative they did, it blindsided everyone involved including the force themselves and misdirected the usual routes of enquiry which would have normally been widely and rigorously pursued. I appreciate you want to defend police actions but in this we can only agree to disagree as I can't imagine I will ever change my mind on this aspect. JMO.

 

[WestLondoner]

If HR did indeed retract the 'bundling incident', how could the police still have faith in him, with his descriptions becoming the photo-fits etc?

Very good point. HR's is the only "evidence" that SJL kept any appointment at 37SR. Despite not noticing the woman, or Mr Kipper's broken nose, or the bottle of champagne he was carrying, and despite his not being sure whether Mr Kipper was a 25 year old slim guy or a 44 year old podgy guy, and despite his mistaking nothing happening for SJL being bundled into a car, he's reliable enough to base a whole case on. Apparently.

Oh yes, there's other circumstantial "evidence" against JC. Trouble is, the CPS aren't buying it, and what would it amount to without HR's "sighting"?

If you need this to fit JC, of course, you need to believe HR. Then it all falls into place.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Why was it labelled a murder enquiry so quickly as opposed to missing person / potential abduction?

1. With SJL's car as it was found....not missing person....too suspicious.

2. Unless a ransom demand is received then it's a murder. Abductions are dealt with covertly. Murders are overt policing. Ransom demand usually come in fairly quickly after abductions....matter of hours.

3. Murder investigation will provide full availability of resources.

4. Finding a body quickly provides better evidential opportunities

5. Community concern will be high. It is important for a visible police presence and it also promotes information from the community, which may prove to be the key in solving to crime.

 

[Cluesleuth]

Unfortunately there's no July 2000 Crimewatch on you tube, there is this one from that year though, ffwd to 8.40

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Thing about this van driver and fiesta swerve, if it was on Crimewatch then obviously the police viewed it as credible and worthy of putting it in the public domain ...

I know Ive seen this in a reconstruction it must be in one of the tv docu's I just cant locate it

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

1. With SJL's car as it was found....not missing person....too suspicious.

2. Unless a ransom demand is received then it's a murder. Abductions are dealt with covertly. Murders are overt policing. Ransom demand usually come in fairly quickly after abductions....matter of hours.

3. Murder investigation will provide full availability of resources.

4. Finding a body quickly provides better evidential opportunities

5. Community concern will be high. It is important for a visible police presence and it also promotes information from the community, which may prove to be the key in solving a crime.

SJL likely didn't benefit in any way whatsoever from this exceptional met police stance, nobody has except the murderer. If indeed she was murdered. Because when cases are as unclear as this, we can't even be sure that SJL didn't decide to run off and start a new life with a billionaire - all possibilities are quite literally still open. So declaring someone murdered off the back of a hastily parked car is never helpful IMO and is probably completely unprecedented.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

SJL likely didn't benefit in any way whatsoever from this exceptional met police stance, nobody has except the murderer. If indeed she was murdered. Because when cases are as unclear as this, we can't even be sure that SJL didn't decide to run off and start a new life with a billionaire - all possibilities are quite literally still open. So declaring someone murdered off the back of a hastily parked car is never helpful IMO and is probably completely unprecedented.

<modsnip - address the post, not the posters>

Murder trials can often be full of ambiguity, nothing is in sharp focus.....it's important to get beyond it and see how the evidence fits together as a whole.

The circumstances may be subtle to you, but to experienced detectives, who will also have spoken to family about the likelihood of SJL taking off on her own, they shout out that it is more than likely that SJL was taken against her own free will.

Victims who are abducted for reasons other than for ransom are often killed within a short period of time. Ransom demands are usually received within hours of abduction.

The police didn't announce it was being treated as likely murder investigation, they don't need to and in any event it would be counter-productive in terms of information coming into the incident room.

Time is critical in such situations. Pro-active decisions need to be made fast. It's better to over-react and ease off than to under-react and lose the golden time of the initial stages in a major investigation.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

SJL likely didn't benefit in any way whatsoever from this exceptional met police stance, nobody has except the murderer. If indeed she was murdered. Because when cases are as unclear as this, we can't even be sure that SJL didn't decide to run off and start a new life with a billionaire - all possibilities are quite literally still open. So declaring someone murdered off the back of a hastily parked car is never helpful IMO and is probably completely unprecedented.

Do you understand that the assessment of the level of seriousness is a holistic one, based on the circumstances, the family view and no trace of SJL at home, hospital and friends etc?

To take just one feature of the disappearance and say, well that doesn't mean she's been abducted is to completely misunderstand the decision making process in these circumstances.