UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #3

[asyousay]

LOL. Neck rotation skills are a rare blessing indeed, but of course you need to know there's something worth rotating your neck for....

The BW sighting is really interesting because police checked with colleagues to see if she had her day and time correct, and she did. This was a bit of a hole in the boat, as Dean Martin might say, because if she were in the FPR at 2.45, that could not have been her car outside 123SR at 12.45 as WJ claimed. It seems to have been something of an article of faith to the police that this was her car. The sighting was explained away by assuming that BW had made a mistake and had seen SJL on a different day.

I quite like the theory MB espoused in the original investigation - that SJL went straight to 123SR and got in someone else's car there. The obvious problems are that whether she took the 37SR keys or not she didn't take the 123SR keys, nor was she expected there, nor can BW have seen her later. However, as literally all theories have similar obvious problems, this is not grounds to dismiss this possibility...

The car being dumped so early never made sense and there are witnesses who were around then and didn’t see the car. It’s highly likely ( IMO) WJ was seemly confused and saw a different car completely. She had her kids around her and was busy and simply got confused.

MOO

 

[WestLondoner]

The early sightings could be of a completely different fiesta they were a very popular car at the time.

They could indeed. The Fiesta in the shape SJL drove came out almost exactly 3 years earlier, and a relevant point here is that of the colour choices available for Fiesta Mk2s, quite a few could probably be mistaken for or misremembered as white: specifically, besides Diamond White, there was also Coral Beige, Cameo Beige, and Strato Silver.

The solid colours were available as standard, black or metallic was at extra cost, but people who wanted Fiestas mostly wanted them because they were cheap (as a Ford dealer customer of mine said candidly at the time, "A Ford is a marginal car"). Paying extra for the colour works against this. So the solid colours were commoner meaning that although there are 22 listed colours, the cheaper ones sold more.

All of which is a way of saying that if you saw a white Fiesta in 1986, the chances of the next one you saw also looking white were quite high. It's not an outlandish possibility that two Fiestas took the same parking space in succession, because the model was common; and it's not a 5% possibility of their being a similar colour, it's higher.

 

[asyousay]

It seems to boil down to two possibilities.
The car seen earlier in Stevenage Road was a different car. Coincidence, but not impossible.
It wasn't Suzy that BW saw, but someone who looked like her.

Who just happened to have the same type of hat in the back of the car. Let’s not forgetting it was a friend of hers and she knew her personally. She was adamant it was Suzy and the boater hat just confirms it more.


moo

 

[WestLondoner]

The car being dumped so early never made sense and there are witnesses who were around then and didn’t see the car. It’s highly likely ( IMO) WJ was seemly confused and saw a different car completely. She had her kids around her and was busy and simply got confused.

MOO

Yep, although if the witnesses you mean are the father and son BT workers, they didn't say they didn't see the car; they said they didn't notice anything unusual. Someone parking a car wouldn't be unusual so it's possible it was there earlier and they just failed to register it because why would you.

I am with you though. I don't think it was there at 12 or 12.45, it's too soon. It would mean she left earlier than we think and went to an address she had no connection with - she had no buyers for the place, took no keys, and the owner had never met her, dealing always with others from Sturgis.

 

[Pinkizzy]

It's just an assumption on the basis of @WiseOwl's strigiforme abilities.



BW was cycling south along Fulham Palace Road from the cemetery towards Putney.

Ah, you're referring to her avi

 

[Cherwell]

Who just happened to have the same type of hat in the back of the car. Let’s not forgetting it was a friend of hers and she knew her personally. She was adamant it was Suzy and the boater hat just confirms it more.

Does anyone know if she mentioned the hat in her original statement, or later?

 

[WestLondoner]

Does anyone know if she mentioned the hat in her original statement, or later?

That is the exam question, rather. If she noticed that detail before it was common currency, it would tend to support her. Unfortunately, the car photos were pretty widely - and I think unavoidably - publicised, so it would be hard to get confident that she hadn't previously seen said hat.

 

[Konstantin]

That is the exam question, rather. If she noticed that detail before it was common currency, it would tend to support her. Unfortunately, the car photos were pretty widely - and I think unavoidably - publicised, so it would be hard to get confident that she hadn't previously seen said hat.

If it was indeed SJL driving about at that time then something very weird was afoot since she was not known for taking long lunch hours and in any case appeared to just dash out for a short time, not taking her bag for example.

I mean clearly something extremely unexpected and terrible happened that lunchtime but this sighting would suppose that SJL had been out and about with whoever it was for a really long time. with all the many questions that would bring up. What was she doing until that time, then?

 

[Cluesleuth]

If it was indeed SJL driving about at that time then something very weird was afoot since she was not known for taking long lunch hours and in any case appeared to just dash out for a short time, not taking her bag for example.

I mean clearly something extremely unexpected and terrible happened that lunchtime but this sighting would suppose that SJL had been out and about with whoever it was for a really long time. with all the many questions that would bring up. What was she doing until that time, then?

And driving her own or a vehicle similar to hers.
Why didnt more people come forward to say they saw her.
But then perhaps they did. I dont think Im the only one who wishes they could read those 22,000 index cards

 

[Whitehall 1212]

And driving her own or a vehicle similar to hers.
Why didnt more people coming forward to say they saw her.
But then perhaps they did. I dont think Im the only one who wishes they could read those 22,000 index cards

From experience I would say that most people have very little awareness of what is happening around them.

Having lived and worked in London I would also say that the trend to ignore what it happening around you is even more prevalent than many other places in the UK.

I think the reality is that very few credible and reliable sightings of SJL would have been reported, particularly as it would seem her activity was benign and unmemorable.

Her abductor/killer was more than likely known to SJL, which enabled him to be in her company long enough to seize the optimum moment to strike and away from public sight/sound.

I feel that SJL was abducted within an hour of leaving Sturgis.

As @Konstantin alluded to, SJL was a professional who did not take long lunch breaks or spend longer than necessary out of the office.

Based on the first description from HR and the subsequent additional witness statements from Shorrolds Road:

I think SJL went to 37 SR and met a man she knew who had asked about 37 (ploy). He went in her car to a second address, where she was overpowered and held, or possibly killed immediately. He then abandoned the car in Stevenage Road....possibly deliberately opposite another Sturgis property. He would have had a second vehicle either at/near the attack address or near where the Fiesta was abandoned.

I think BW is mistaken that she saw SJL. As @Konstantin said, why would she still be driving around at 2:30 - 2:45 p.m. heading away from Fulham? That BW, who knew SJL, only came forward a number of days after SJL went missing and after the first press conference (Wed's 30th?) and footage of her found car, complete with straw boater being shown, causes me issues of credibility with her.

I also think the 12:45 report of the SJL's Fiesta in Stevenage Road is incorrect. Although the Fietsa was probably abandoned by 14:00, when the cabbie who lived in Stevenage Road saw it parked up by the garage. Cabbies are pretty switched on....observant.

I'm interested in 6D Wyfold Road, the crossed out address in SJL's diary. This was a first floor 1 bed flat with motor vehicle access at the rear into a secluded courtyard.

Why was it in her diary? Was it vacant? Was it insecure?

 

[Pinkizzy]

Where is Sherringham Rd?

 

[Crusader21]

Looking for some info on JCs prison acquaintance and the owner of the red Sierra.

I understand he passed away, but was he a civilian cook working in the hostel or another prisoner being 'rehabilitated' by working as a cook in the hostel?

If he was a criminal himself, and we know he shared a car with JC, the question is did they do other things together?

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Where is Sherringham Rd?

Apologies.....meant Stevenage....amended

 

[Pinkizzy]

Looking for some info on JCs prison acquaintance and the owner of the red Sierra.

I understand he passed away, but was he a civilian cook working in the hostel or another prisoner being 'rehabilitated' by working as a cook in the hostel?

If he was a criminal himself, and we know he shared a car with JC, the question is did they do other things together?

Is there a photo of him?

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Looking for some info on JCs prison acquaintance and the owner of the red Sierra.

I understand he passed away, but was he a civilian cook working in the hostel or another prisoner being 'rehabilitated' by working as a cook in the hostel?

If he was a criminal himself, and we know he shared a car with JC, the question is did they do other things together?

We'd need to know who he/she was and their relationship to JC. We know that JC's contacts/associates/work colleagues were identified and interviewed as he was the "only" suspect after the others were eliminated.

JC's use of the red Sierra was subsequently identified so it would be fair to say that police checked out the owner/registered keeper and others who had access to it and to identify when JC had access to it and if he was with anyone else.

 

[Crusader21]

Is there a photo of him?

Not to my knowledge.

It was also reported too of JC himself of directing a criminal from within prison! So at times, JC may not have offended alone ....

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Not to my knowledge.

It was also reported too of JC himself of directing a criminal from within prison! So at times, JC may not have offended alone ....

I'll give you the link.....murder of Melanie Hall.

Murder of Melanie Hall - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Crusader21]

I'll give you the link.....murder of Melanie Hall.

Sutton Coldfield killer John Cannan linked to murder of Melanie Hall

A PSYCHOPATHIC sex killer who terrorised Midland women in the 1980s faces a fresh police quiz after being linked to M5 murder victim Melanie Hall.

www.birminghammail.co.uk

Additional info on JCs wiki

A possible involvement in the murder of Melanie Hall, who disappeared in 1996, was suggested by police in October 2009, following the discovery of her remains. Cannan discussed the "perfect abduction" with fellow prisoner Christopher Clark, a rapist who was jailed for life for attacking another woman, a month after being interviewed over Hall's disappearance.[25]

 

[Pinkizzy]

From experience I would say that most people have very little awareness of what is happening around them.

Having lived and worked in London I would also say that the trend to ignore what it happening around you is even more prevalent than many other places in the UK.

I think the reality is that very few credible and reliable sightings of SJL would have been reported, particularly as it would seem her activity was benign and unmemorable.

Her abductor/killer was more than likely known to SJL, which enabled him to be in her company long enough to seize the optimum moment to strike and away from public sight/sound.

I feel that SJL was abducted within an hour of leaving Sturgis.

As @Konstantin alluded to, SJL was a professional who did not take long lunch breaks or spend longer than necessary out of the office.

Based on the first description from HR and the subsequent additional witness statements from Shorrolds Road:

I think SJL went to 37 SR and met a man she knew who had asked about 37 (ploy). He went in her car to a second address, where she was overpowered and held, or possibly killed immediately. He then abandoned the car in Stevenage Road....possibly deliberately opposite another Sturgis property. He would have had a second vehicle either at/near the attack address or near where the Fiesta was abandoned.

I think BW is mistaken that she saw SJL. As @Konstantin said, why would she still be driving around at 2:30 - 2:45 p.m. heading away from Fulham? That BW, who knew SJL, only came forward a number of days after SJL went missing and after the first press conference (Wed's 30th?) and footage of her found car, complete with straw boater being shown, causes me issues of credibility with her.

I also think the 12:45 report of the SJL's Fiesta in Stevenage Road is incorrect. Although the Fietsa was probably abandoned by 14:00, when the cabbie who lived in Stevenage Road saw it parked up by the garage. Cabbies are pretty switched on....observant.

I'm interested in 6D Wyfold Road, the crossed out address in SJL's diary. This was a first floor 1 bed flat with motor vehicle access at the rear into a secluded courtyard.

Why was it in her diary? Was it vacant? Was it insecure?

I guess SJL may have argued with other negotiator in the office
over 6D Wyfold Rd - his client's offer was forwarded to the owner and he would claim the commission

 

[Whitehall 1212]

I guess SJL may have argued with other negotiator in the office
over 6D Wyfold Rd - his client's offer was forwarded to the owner and he would claim the commission

Are you stating confirmed fact here?

I'm interested to know more about 6d Wyfold Road at the time. Was it for sale or rent? If so was it vacant possession? Did police thoroughly check it for any sign that SJL had been there?