UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #4

[Cluesleuth]

• the Railway Ripper (singular) gets a mention as a possible perpetrator

Thats interesting.

Duffy was jailed in 1988 he didnt break his silence naming Mulchay as an accomplice until 1998.

 

[WiseOwl]

I understand that it was a voluntary search, with the permission of the owner of the property.

No lawful authority would be required in such a case.

In any case, that JC had returned there after SJL disappeared and there was information that JC had made changes at the address, would have been more than enough for a warrant.

When you say you understand it was a voluntary search with permission of the owner, can you provide a source for this?

 

[Whitehall 1212]

When you say you understand it was a voluntary search with permission of the owner, can you provide a source for this?

'A source said: “The couple who lived there were shocked when the police came to them asking to search their garden."

“But they have given their full consent to the search."

“Police have already conducted a cursory examination there and established that everything fits with what they were told.” '

Cops dig for Suzy Lamplugh's body in suspect's mum home to end 32-year probe

COPS searching for the body of estate agent Suzy Lamplugh began digging up a garden yesterday — in the hope of solving a 32-year mystery. The property in Sutton Coldfield, West Midlands, is the for…

www.thesun.co.uk

 

[WiseOwl]

'A source said: “The couple who lived there were shocked when the police came to them asking to search their garden.

“But they have given their full consent to the search.'

Cops dig for Suzy Lamplugh's body in suspect's mum home to end 32-year probe

COPS searching for the body of estate agent Suzy Lamplugh began digging up a garden yesterday — in the hope of solving a 32-year mystery. The property in Sutton Coldfield, West Midlands, is the for…

www.thesun.co.uk

Thanks.

The item also goes on to say:

It follows information that Cannan may have buried 25-year-old Suzy there after abducting and murdering her. The home was first searched in 2003 but cops have now returned to dig up a section of the garden.

Did the police reveal what this information was?

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Thanks.

The item also goes on to say:

It follows information that Cannan may have buried 25-year-old Suzy there after abducting and murdering her. The home was first searched in 2003 but cops have now returned to dig up a section of the garden.

Did the police reveal what this information was?

Reading between the lines the most recent search was based on information received that the old inspection pit in the garage had been filled in.

The police used ground penetrating radar initially. No doubt this confirmed that there had been a previous concrete infill in the garage at a relevant time.

It's all in the article that I linked to.

 

[WestLondoner]

Thanks.

The item also goes on to say:

It follows information that Cannan may have buried 25-year-old Suzy there after abducting and murdering her. The home was first searched in 2003 but cops have now returned to dig up a section of the garden.

Did the police reveal what this information was?

AIUI from DV, the information was that DV was looking into the case, so urgent action was necessary to uphold the Cannan theory.

The 2003 search seems to have been based on Cannan banter, from jail.

MOO, JMO etc.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

AIUI from DV, the information was that DV was looking into the case, so urgent action was necessary to uphold the Cannan theory.

The 2003 search seems to have been based on Cannan banter, from jail.

MOO, JMO etc.

Odd that....I also heard that DV was looking into the case.....



.....wondering what to pack for a week or two in Brum, for he was convinced that the Met would call upon his superior hole digging skills.

Alas the call never came, which was the Met's way of saying 'when you're in a hole, stop digging'!

 

[Pinkizzy]

I wonder what evidence there was to allow a for a dig in Sutton Coldfield?!

Don't forget the mound of earth that was disturbed by someone in Warwickshire (1986). The Met spent a week searching that plot in 2018!

 

[Konstantin]

Odd that....I also heard that DV was looking into the case.....



.....wondering what to pack for a week or two in Brum, for he was convinced that the Met would call upon his superior hole digging skills.

Alas the call never came, which was the Met's way of saying 'when you're in a hole, stop digging'!

In his book he explains that after the Met discovers he is looking into the case, this dig happens, and the reader is given to believe or understand that the two are connected. It seems unlikely tbh.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Don't forget the mound of earth that was disturbed by someone in Warwickshire (1986). The Met spent a week searching that plot in 2018!

The search was at Drakes Broughton in Worcestershire in July 2019.

The location is a short distance from the site of the former Norton Barracks, a previous place of interest.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

In his book he explains that after the Met discovers he is looking into the case, this dig happens, and the reader is given to believe or understand that the two are connected. It seems unlikely tbh.

Probably less unlikely than having tonight's Euromillions numbers

 

[WiseOwl]

Reading between the lines the most recent search was based on information received that the old inspection pit in the garage had been filled in.

The police used ground penetrating radar initially. No doubt this confirmed that there had been a previous concrete infill in the garage at a relevant time.

It's all in the article that I linked to.

It doesn't state in the article where this information had come from? It Says:

It follows information that Cannan may have buried 25-year-old Suzy there after abducting and murdering her. The home was first searched in 2003 but cops have now returned to dig up a section of the garden. Excavation work was focusing on an old corrugated iron garage in the back garden of the semi- detached property in Sutton Coldfield, West Mids.

So who provided the police with the information that the old inspection pit in the garage had been filled in? It wasn't the couple who lived there because, as you quoted, they were shocked when the police asked them for permission to dig. Was the information already there about the pit in the 2003 search but nobody had acted on it? What year was this pit filled in?

 

[Whitehall 1212]

It doesn't state in the article where this information had come from? It Says:

It follows information that Cannan may have buried 25-year-old Suzy there after abducting and murdering her. The home was first searched in 2003 but cops have now returned to dig up a section of the garden. Excavation work was focusing on an old corrugated iron garage in the back garden of the semi- detached property in Sutton Coldfield, West Mids.

So who provided the police with the information that the old inspection pit in the garage had been filled in? It wasn't the couple who lived there because, as you quoted, they were shocked when the police asked them for permission to dig. Was the information already there about the pit in the 2003 search but nobody had acted on it? What year was this pit filled in?

The police won't make the source of such information public knowledge......they don't need to.

Nevertheless, they checked with the GPR, which confirmed the need to investigate further.

 

[Circulo]

Josie Phillips - former staff member at The Prince of Wales, Putney, identifies JC as frequenting the pub. 1240-1308 below:

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Josie Phillips - former staff member at The Prince of Wales, Putney, identifies JC as frequenting the pub. 1240-1308 below:

It's been discussed here. Josie doesn't emphatically mention the PoW as being the place JC frequented.....nor do the police.

The cutting of the clip may provide a misleading impression, therefore it cannot be relied upon as being factually accurate.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Josie Phillips - former staff member at The Prince of Wales, Putney, identifies JC as frequenting the pub. 1240-1308 below:

"He just said it was a lively pub and it was like a pub and wine bar and he used to go in there quite regular"

JP speaking isn't a former staff member of the PoW, the text says she is a former work colleague of JC (I assume from the props company in Acton?). She also never named the pub.

From other people's descriptions of the PoW at the time it would not appear to be confused with a wine bar and it doesn't look like one - her words, "he just said it was a lively pub and it was like a pub and wine bar".

The only person we have saying this was "one of his haunts was this pub, the PoW in Putney" is the video narrator. Haunts would usually mean someone went to a place often. On what basis did the narrator make that statement?

If it were known that JC was 'haunting' the PoW and making good headway with the ladies, including one called Su Su... why was that information never acted on? Where is the evidence and witness statements from actual members of staff? Are there any? Or is this a slightly misleading clip with errors in it? Does anyone know?

 

[Cherwell]

Josie Phillips - former staff member at The Prince of Wales, Putney, identifies JC as frequenting the pub. 1240-1308 below:

The caption identifies her as a "former work colleague". What's the source for her working at the PoW?
She doesn't say she saw him at the unnamed pub that was "like a proper wine bar" - she's merely repeating how he described it.

Alarming how easy it is to convince people that they have heard things that were not said.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

the text says she is a former work colleague of JC (I assume from the props company in Acton?).

Josie is providing hearsay evidence, i.e. repeating what she has been told by another.

Hearsay evidence is unreliable as the original source cannot be tested. This is why hearsay evidence is inadmissible in English/Welsh criminal courts. The only exception being dying declarations, because it constitutes the last words of a dying person.

Why assume anything? We don't have the information to make such an assumption.

This is how inaccuracies creep in to the case....assumption is picked up by someone else and repeated. Before we know it that assumption becomes anecdotal and before much longer a statement of 'fact'.

Always stick with the facts that have original and unambiguous sources.

Formal witness evidence needs to be treated on it's merits, both the credibility of the witness and the reliability of what they say. If what a witness says is corroborated independently then it has veracity.

 

[WiseOwl]

The police won't make the source of such information public knowledge......they don't need to.

Nevertheless, they checked with the GPR, which confirmed the need to investigate further.

So is there any reason why the police didn't check with the GPR in the searches at Sutton Coldfield in 2003 & 2004?

 

[Whitehall 1212]

So is there any reason why the police didn't check with the GPR in the searches at Sutton Coldfield in 2003 & 2004?

Where are we going with this? The search has ruled out that SJL is concealed at the JC's mother's former home address.

The why's are wherefores are moot.

The extent and nature of the searches were obviously dependant on the information available at the time.

The extent of any search has to be proportionate and not excessive and relevant to the size of the object being sought....it can't be a fishing trip for reasons of investigative integrity and financial cost.