UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #4

[EddietheEagle]

Could posters point out any topics on this forum where OSINT methods have come up with new lines of thinking that have actually assisted with an investigation? I'm curious to see how a case can be usefully progressed on this forum using the information resources of the internet. I'm relatively new here so looking for a short cut to find a case where OSINT has made a positive contribution.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

On another point I’m interested in your Jane Doe research, especially for the North East.
Maybe you could share what you’ve found?

I was looking for a different reason ~ middle aged women located near Kent / SE coast in late 90s onwards re the Marion Barter (Australian who came to UK with a con artist) case. I only searched public websites not any specialist databases and they aren’t great IMO.

I’d like to know how to scrutinise Jane Does on a reliable database if anyone knows how?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Ronald Castree who was found to be the true killer of Lesley Molseed after the biggest miscarriage of justice seen in the uk , isn't as far as I can see linked to any other unsolved murders. As an aside but maybe of note a senior police officer and a retired forensics scientist were charged with perverting the course of justice at the original trial of Stefan Kiszko but defence barristers argued that a fair trial would be impossible after the passage of time , that was only after 18 yrs, SL's murder is some 36 yrs down the line, what chance a fair trial now for JC seeing as he's the only named suspect .

IMO Zero percent chance of a fair trial unless there is irrefutable evidence such as SLJ’s body with DNA, fibres, and a witness or recording etc

 

[asyousay]

Let’s be honest the chances of finding SL body are slim. She could of been buried quite literally anywhere ( not including the POW). Even when LE reviewed the case they didn’t find anything to pinpoint a burial location.


JC will die and with it any hope of closure imo

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Let’s be honest the chances of finding SL body are slim. She could of been buried quite literally anywhere ( not including the POW). Even when LE reviewed the case they didn’t find anything to pinpoint a burial location.


JC will die and with it any hope of closure imo

I agree. In the absence of a body or physical evidence, what’s the other chances ~ of there having been a witness speaking out one day?

 

[asyousay]

I agree. In the absence of a body or physical evidence, what’s the other chances ~ of there having been a witness speaking out one day?

Well if it’s not JC let’s hope there are still people out there with knowledge of what happened and it can be solved. But the problem is The Met have set their stall out on JC so when he dies there won’t be anybody pushing to get the case looked at.


Unfortunately with Suzy’s parents being dead and her biggest advocate’s there isn’t that vocal voice making waves bringing attention to it ( like a Doreen Lawrence).


MOOO

 

[Terryb808]

Let’s be honest the chances of finding SL body are slim. She could of been buried quite literally anywhere ( not including the POW). Even when LE reviewed the case they didn’t find anything to pinpoint a burial location.


JC will die and with it any hope of closure imo

JC was not into the hard work needed to bury a body. So I don’t think he would go down that route.
He liked water and would have stuck to his MO, you’ve more chance of him being the man dumping the large case in the Grand Union Canal than burying SJL in Norton Barracks.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

JC was not into the hard work needed to bury a body. So I don’t think he would go down that route.
He liked water and would have stuck to his MO, you’ve more chance of him being the man dumping the large case in the Grand Union Canal than burying SJL in Norton Barracks.

Do people dump people in canals and get away with it? Especially inside large cases?
Canals are surprisingly shallow, sometimes the water has really high visibility, boats are up and down all the time, there's load of people walk the tow paths including dogwalkers, cyclists, joggers, and local people going A to B, plus they get regularly dredged. Then there's the people fishing, bird-spotting, or such.

Personally, if I was hoping to not be detected for murder, the last thing I'd do is seal the body inside a case and then put that case inside a very limited and finite contained man made body of water.

 

[Terryb808]

Do people dump people in canals and get away with it? Especially inside large cases?
Canals are surprisingly shallow, sometimes the water has really high visibility, boats are up and down all the time, there's load of people walk the tow paths including dogwalkers, cyclists, joggers, and local people going A to B, plus they get regularly dredged. Then there's the people fishing, bird-spotting, or such.

Personally, if I was hoping to not be detected for murder, the last thing I'd do is seal the body inside a case and then put that case inside a very limited and finite contained man made body of water.

I agree, when JD came up with this witness I contacted and had some excellent dialogue with the river & canal trust for this section.

The particular section where Gallows Bridge is situated is actually part of the river Brent. So doesn’t conform exactly to the normal depth for a canal (it’s deeper).

In the 80’s canal dredging took place approximately every 5 years, and at that time the dredged material was deposited at a suitable location at the side of the canal.
Today it has to be removed and disposal is much more closely controlled.

I read that the canal was searched during another investigation, which is true, however, the section around Gallows Bridge was not.

The material degradation of a bag or suitcase (depending on what it’s made from) would probably mean there’s nothing left to find now.

JD himself said in one of the TV documentaries that he checked police records at Brentford police station and could not find any report appertaining to the claim that Mr Kipper dumped a suitcase in the canal at 5.00am on Thursday morning.

You need to make your own mind up on this, it could be that the police just thought he was just another one of the thousands of mistaken witnesses and didn’t bother to record it.

Alternatively, that it just didn’t happen.

I’ve penned a scenario where JC could have been that person and the reasons why he would dump the suitcase on Thursday morning.

IMO JC didn’t do it, but like everything in this case, nothing is certain.

 

[RichardKimble]

Why wasn't JC named as the only suspect in the Sandra Court murder, similar MO to the Banks killing, different from the SL case with no body here, why specifically one and not the other ? pay and display puts Cannan in Bourne mouth the day of Courts disappearance , is there such a link to suggest JC was any where near the estate offices or even Shorrods road .

 

[Cherwell]

The particular section where Gallows Bridge is situated is actually part of the river Brent.

Is this the bridge marked on Google maps as Xoán's Bridge?

 

[Terryb808]

Is this the bridge marked on Google maps as Xoán's Bridge?

I’m sure it is, if you Google it, look at any photos of it, you can easily find it on the map.

 

[Cherwell]

I’m sure it is, if you Google it, look at any photos of it, you can easily find it on the map.

That's what I thought. I wonder why Google is calling it something else. I couldn't find any reference to "Xoán's Bridge".

 

[WestLondoner]

The parking ticket arguably puts Cannan’s car in Bournemouth but not necessarily Cannan.

The reason he hasn't been named as only suspect is probably because, as SC's body was found, the case is a lot less mysterious and lower profile. More people are intrigued by what happened to SJL than SC.

 

[WestLondoner]

Of course the police immediately went public with appeals for witnesses re SJL whereas IIRC no such publicity attended the SC case.

 

[RichardKimble]

The parking ticket arguably puts Cannan’s car in Bournemouth but not necessarily Cannan.

The reason he hasn't been named as only suspect is probably because, as SC's body was found, the case is a lot less mysterious and lower profile. More people are intrigued by what happened to SJL than SC.

The same could be said of JC and the SL's case, no link, Whitehall is convinced that they knew JC was around , but also acknowledges no direct link can be found. Perhaps a missing person is more intriguing .

 

[Cluesleuth]

Let’s be honest the chances of finding SL body are slim. She could of been buried quite literally anywhere ( not including the POW). Even when LE reviewed the case they didn’t find anything to pinpoint a burial location.


JC will die and with it any hope of closure imo

Perhaps her body wasnt buried there are other ways to dispose of a body.

 

[RichardKimble]

Perhaps her body wasnt buried there are other ways to dispose of a body.

Banks wasn't buried nor was Court, if Cannan was responsible ( for Courts murder) he's unlikely to have buried SL imo.

 

[Pinkizzy]

Banks wasn't buried nor was Court, if Cannan was responsible ( for Courts murder) he's unlikely to have buried SL imo.

Cannan wasn't responsible for SCs death

 

[Cluesleuth]

He liked water and would have stuck to his MO, you’ve more chance of him being the man dumping the large case in the Grand Union Canal than burying SJL in Norton Barracks.

Norton Barracks was the Regimental Depot and home of the Worcestershire Regiment for more than a century. Did anyone SJL know have a connection with the Worcestershire Regiment.
Norton Barracks 'Keep' was up for sale it was sold in 1987 Orignally it housed officers accommodation and offices.
The remaining Barracks were sold in 1990 by the Ministry of Defence to Wychavon District Council for approx 1.2 million they in turn sold it on to developers for a housing developement which is now known as Brockhill Village Norton.

Checking the Worcestershire Regiments Norton Barracks history page it gives an interesting detail regarding the 'Keep'

The "Keep" had underneath the entrance a large tank capable of holding some 20,000 gallons of water supplied by the City of Worcester. From this tank water was pumped by steam power into two cast iron tanks at the top of the "Keep", which supplied the whole barracks with water. The rest of the Keep was used for stores.

MOO