UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #6

[su5ie]

It was hot weather in London, so lots of people could have been tanned, possibly including prisoners who had been working on day release for the past couple of months.

Thank you for that Tes ,I was unsure if it was 3 weeks or a couple of months

 

[WestLondoner]

It does raise an important point though, which is that the dissimilarity between the various sightings, and the remarkable resemblance of one of them to MG, is always glossed as though unimportant or non-existent. You're led to assume the sketch is of Cannan because the police say it is, but this does not address the anomalies or discrepancies between them.

 

[su5ie]

It does raise an important point though, which is that the dissimilarity between the various sightings, and the remarkable resemblance of one of them to MG, is always glossed as though unimportant or non-existent. You're led to assume the sketch is of Cannan because the police say it is, but this does not address the anomalies

I was looking back at Shirley Banks murder just to see Cannans other known victim. I must say Shirley and Suzy have a lot in common the most striking is they look so similar they could be twins most definitely sisters imo and the minor is both names begin with 'S" and if you include Sandra court in that line up all 3 have same initial. But two out of 3 were found in ditches .this seems to be Cannans MO so why take better care concealing suzys body and Sandra's murder wasn't sexually motivated or was and killer got disturbed and had to dispose of remains quickly .

I feel in suzys case .it closed to other possibilities once Cannan was revealed as a suspect . Looking outside that box was considered either a waste of time or conspiracy. IMO lots of people in suzys circle had motive however minor .

The question I have is were they capable of killing ,concealing and never revealing. Psychologically that's a major burden but prehaps the burden was made lighter by lack of finger pointing and combine that with shoddy police work ,DLs meddling , Suzys complicated life and no body being found .It gives a potential murderer plenty of time to settle the nerves and get a story straight .

It amazes me that police Allegedly had no interest in coincidence's but were willing to overlook the anomalies and speculative on my part made a square peg fit into a round hole .

Prehaps JC did kill Suzy but why not put him in a line up with other lookalikes of the photo fit made up of ,random strangers people known to the victim or whom worked with Suzy as they had visited 37 Shorrolds looking for her . Surely this needed to be eliminated by witnesses. No law that I know of prevents this and if your not guilty or have an explanation or alibi you would want to help ??He wasn't cautioned and questioned either, only informally .

Everything is great in hindsight and my criticism of the investigation is all well in good when I have the bigger picture in front of me and have the time to pour over details and prehaps law enforcement of the time were overwhelmed with multiple crimes across the board and weren't allocated the resources or manpower . An inquisitive mind should be at the height of importance to any investigation team past and present but unfortunately even today police forces are often overworked and under paid ,under appreciated and the courts don't always value the evidence gathered and the culprit walks free .

 

[Terryb808]

I was looking back at Shirley Banks murder just to see Cannans other known victim. I must say Shirley and Suzy have a lot in common the most striking is they look so similar they could be twins most definitely sisters imo and the minor is both names begin with 'S" and if you include Sandra court in that line up all 3 have same initial. But two out of 3 were found in ditches .this seems to be Cannans MO so why take better care concealing suzys body and Sandra's murder wasn't sexually motivated or was and killer got disturbed and had to dispose of remains quickly .

I feel in suzys case .it closed to other possibilities once Cannan was revealed as a suspect . Looking outside that box was considered either a waste of time or conspiracy. IMO lots of people in suzys circle had motive however minor .

The question I have is were they capable of killing ,concealing and never revealing. Psychologically that's a major burden but prehaps the burden was made lighter by lack of finger pointing and combine that with shoddy police work ,DLs meddling , Suzys complicated life and no body being found .It gives a potential murderer plenty of time to settle the nerves and get a story straight .

It amazes me that police Allegedly had no interest in coincidence's but were willing to overlook the anomalies and speculative on my part made a square peg fit into a round hole .

Prehaps JC did kill Suzy but why not put him in a line up with other lookalikes of the photo fit made up of ,random strangers people known to the victim or whom worked with Suzy as they had visited 37 Shorrolds looking for her . Surely this needed to be eliminated by witnesses. No law that I know of prevents this and if your not guilty or have an explanation or alibi you would want to help ??He wasn't cautioned and questioned either, only informally .

Everything is great in hindsight and my criticism of the investigation is all well in good when I have the bigger picture in front of me and have the time to pour over details and prehaps law enforcement of the time were overwhelmed with multiple crimes across the board and weren't allocated the resources or manpower . An inquisitive mind should be at the height of importance to any investigation team past and present but unfortunately even today police forces are often overworked and under paid ,under appreciated and the courts don't always value the evidence gathered and the culprit walks free .

Take a look on YouTube, there’s bound to be the video often referenced in the various documentaries showing the police interview with JC.
This has been analysed many times and in the last documentary I watched “In the Footsteps of Killers” featuring David Wilson, he concluded from this video that JC was guilty.
Psychologists came to this conclusion, I’m not so sure myself, I prefer to look at what solid evidence there is, in JC’s case there’s none.

 

[RichardKimble]

IMO Wilson never goes against the official line.

 

[blj72]

I’ve suggested this before to those interested in this case.
Three books provide an insight (and answers to most people’s questions), they are:

The Suzy Lamplugh Story by Andrew Stephen, this is only available used in paper form. It dates back to 1987 and the author had access to police files.

Finding Suzy by David Videcette, this is the most recent and provides a completely different take on Suzy’s disappearance.

Prime Suspect by Christopher Berry Dee, this book provides an insight into John Cannan. It gives you an idea as to why the police have him as their one and only suspect.

Sadly there’s a lot of inaccuracy in the media and this is misleading. Once you have all the basic info in place you can for a narrative you believe to be what actually happened.

IMO the perpetrator disposed of Suzy’s body well away from Fulham, this means that it’s unlikely that she’ll ever be found.

With DV’s book AL (Suzys

I’ve posted this before, it’s my recommended reading list for those interested in this case.

The Suzy Lamplugh Story by Andrew Stephen, this is the oldest and was published in 1987. He had access to police files and this should provide the most accurate account.
It’s not influenced by the later media obsession with John Cannan because he’d not appeared on the police radar yet.

Finding Suzy by David Videsette, this is the most recent and follows a completely different narrative. While he doesn’t find Suzy, he does open up other areas to investigate.

Prime Suspect by Christopher Berry Dee, this focuses on John Cannan and provides an insight into why he’s the polices one and only suspect.

These three books will answer most of the questions people have about this case. From then on you can build your own narrative on what actually happened.

IMO the perpetrator disposed of Suzy’s body well away from Fulham. This would mean that the chances of her being found are extremely slim.

In DV’s book he interviewed AL Suzy’s last boyfriend, before storming off he said “you’ll never find her, no one will”.
This is a haunting statement and one I found particularly interesting, however, when you take the whole interview into account you can see why he said it.

soerry if this has already been said. Having read VIdecettes book, Suzys killer would have known she worked for sturgis as it was on the keyfob. Knowing Sturgis was in Fulham, he drove to one of main fulham streets and parked the car at first house he saw with a Sturgis sign. This is why the car was parked awkwardly , partially blocking a garage. I was pretty much sold on Videcettes take on the whole thing. THe Andrew Stephen book is good as it gives the real name of Videcettes suspect. . I once had a personal chat with Videcette. The conclusion was that Suzys family would have to be onside with his research for the Police to act and they don't appear to be. He had really wanted to interview Suzys father but dit no get the chance. Diana pushed the John Cannan theory , i think Mr Lamplugh may have been more open to Vicecettes research.Its a shame it seems to have gone to waste.

 

[su5ie]

Take a look on YouTube, there’s bound to be the video often referenced in the various documentaries showing the police interview with JC.
This has been analysed many times and in the last documentary I watched “In the Footsteps of Killers” featuring David Wilson, he concluded from this video that JC was guilty.
Psychologists came to this conclusion, I’m not so sure myself, I prefer to look at what solid evidence there is, in JC’s case there’s none.

Paul brittons book The jigsaw man ,is what intrigued me about the criminal mind but not only the perpetrator but the mind of the victim

While I fully agree that murderers can be psychologically profiled but profiling a murderer to fit a case is useless. Each victim and attacker have profiles individual to them and not a one size fits all .It's the psychology of the victim that sparks the interest of the perpetrator. It's what attracts them ,its outside of appearance. It is often vulnerability but can also be strength and the need of the killer to degrade and over power .So analysing Cannan alone while great for personality typing and seeing if he is capable but psychologically profiling suzy and Shirley would be better to see if the victim fits the murderer imo

 

[su5ie]

soerry if this has already been said. Having read VIdecettes book, Suzys killer would have known she worked for sturgis as it was on the keyfob. Knowing Sturgis was in Fulham, he drove to one of main fulham streets and parked the car at first house he saw with a Sturgis sign. This is why the car was parked awkwardly , partially blocking a garage. I was pretty much sold on Videcettes take on the whole thing. THe Andrew Stephen book is good as it gives the real name of Videcettes suspect. . I once had a personal chat with Videcette. The conclusion was that Suzys family would have to be onside with his research for the Police to act and they don't appear to be. He had really wanted to interview Suzys father but dit no get the chance. Diana pushed the John Cannan theory , i think Mr Lamplugh may have been more open to Vicecettes research.Its a shame it seems to have gone to waste.

Can you possibly give me the initials of the suspect mentioned if not the temp landlord please . I feel DV would need the remaining family to push the narrative he is proposing . Sadly DL was a whole other fish in comparison to Mr lamplugh

 

[blj72]

Can you possibly give me the initials of the suspect mentioned if not the temp landlord please . I feel DV would need the remaining family to push the narrative he is proposing . Sadly DL was a whole other fish in comparison to Mr lamplugh

I agree. From what i have read my perspective on DL has changed for the worst in many respects. Can i private mssage you? im not sure that i need to as its all in teh public domain.

 

[su5ie]

I agree. From what i have read my perspective on DL has changed for the worst in many respects. Can i private mssage you? im not sure that i need to as its all in teh public domain.

I think it's CV so no need .I would also like to probe the PoW theory and can definitely see DV’S perspective being a possibility.

I've also delved into Cannans connection to Shirley Banks ,Sandra Court and Suzy it is interesting to see that both Suzy and Sandra's partial dna were found in cars Cannan had access to.
Both women who were found were found in water and in Shirley's case she made a phone call under duress to work not dissimilar to the phone calls made to the PoW by a "Sarah "
The number plate slp86** was also on the car used in the Shirley Banks murder
I have read an article which states that wetland or lakes were converted near to where suzys car was parked prehaps she is there .seems like cannan's modis operandi

 

[Terryb808]

I think it's CV so no need .I would also like to probe the PoW theory and can definitely see DV’S perspective being a possibility.

I've also delved into Cannans connection to Shirley Banks ,Sandra Court and Suzy it is interesting to see that both Suzy and Sandra's partial dna were found in cars Cannan had access to.
Both women who were found were found in water and in Shirley's case she made a phone call under duress to work not dissimilar to the phone calls made to the PoW by a "Sarah "
The number plate slp86** was also on the car used in the Shirley Banks murder
I have read an article which states that wetland or lakes were converted near to where suzys car was parked prehaps she is there .seems like cannan's modis operandi

It’s the London Wetland Centre now, but back in 86 the area was a IIRC balancing lake.
The police did search the area extensively at the time, plus any conversation work carried out afterwards would have likely obliterated any evidence.

 

[tes1984]

I think it's CV so no need .I would also like to probe the PoW theory and can definitely see DV’S perspective being a possibility.

I've also delved into Cannans connection to Shirley Banks ,Sandra Court and Suzy it is interesting to see that both Suzy and Sandra's partial dna were found in cars Cannan had access to.
Both women who were found were found in water and in Shirley's case she made a phone call under duress to work not dissimilar to the phone calls made to the PoW by a "Sarah "
The number plate slp86** was also on the car used in the Shirley Banks murder
I have read an article which states that wetland or lakes were converted near to where suzys car was parked prehaps she is there .seems like cannan's modis operandi

I don't buy into the POW or Wetlands theories whatsoever.

The partial DNA could fit millions of men, so is no particular link at all to Cannan.

The phone call from a female is interesting as it's a very usual signature. The number plate is interesting but wasn't made up how you've presented it...

 

[su5ie]

I don't buy into the POW or Wetlands theories whatsoever.

The partial DNA could fit millions of men, so is no particular link at all to Cannan.

The phone call from a female is interesting as it's a very usual signature. The number plate is interesting but wasn't made up how you've presented it...

You are right tes and I as I was typing I couldn't remember the full plate so I found a picture and an article also the partial DNA was from the women not cannan
What I find more creepy now when I look at it The plate is SLP386S so in my mind its Susannh jane lamplugh, 3 victims in 86 all beginning with S, sandra ,suzy and Shirley
My opinion is that Cannan's trophy is his memory of the killing he relishes this as they are all his and no one can take his thoughts
Is fake number plate proof Suzy Lamplugh was murdered by John Cannan?

 

[WiseOwl]

I think it's CV so no need .I would also like to probe the PoW theory and can definitely see DV’S perspective being a possibility.

I've also delved into Cannans connection to Shirley Banks ,Sandra Court and Suzy it is interesting to see that both Suzy and Sandra's partial dna were found in cars Cannan had access to.
Both women who were found were found in water and in Shirley's case she made a phone call under duress to work not dissimilar to the phone calls made to the PoW by a "Sarah "
The number plate slp86** was also on the car used in the Shirley Banks murder
I have read an article which states that wetland or lakes were converted near to where suzys car was parked prehaps she is there .seems like cannan's modis operandi

Where have you got the information from that Suzy's DNA was found in a car that JC had access to? The only DNA they have been testing is from a smudged fingerprint found on the rear-view mirror of Suzy's Ford Fiesta.

As for 3 victims beginning with S in '86, SB was abducted and murdered in 1987.

SLP? Could stand for 'Stupid London Police' for all we know. JMOO of course!

 

[tes1984]

I would like to suggest a seperate thread for the rapes Cannan is suspected of.

Was he the 'Houses For Sale Rapist'?

IMO with serial offenders, it's always best to look at the earliest potential offences.

 

[Cherwell]

One of the red flags for me is Suzys handbag left in the office ,she seemed to like her possessions with her hence the carrying of such a private and personal item as the diary ,why not lock it in her room and journal in the evening?

Everyone seems to think of the diary as being a journal-type diary. My view is that a personal journal-type diary would have been kept at home, not carried around daily in a handbag.

As an office worker in the 80s, I carried a pocket diary in my handbag, which I used to record appointments, other aides-memoire and also telephone numbers. I think this is more likely to be the type of diary that Suzy kept in her bag, not something extremely personal.

For this reason I doubt she was in a particular hurry to get it back once she knew it and the cheque book were safe and being kept for her. The pub was only a short walk from her flat, around the corner, and the obvious thing to do would be to collect it on her way home. So I think the pub is a red herring and that she never went back there.

 

[WiseOwl]

Everyone seems to think of the diary as being a journal-type diary. My view is that a personal journal-type diary would have been kept at home, not carried around daily in a handbag.

As an office worker in the 80s, I carried a pocket diary in my handbag, which I used to record appointments, other aides-memoire and also telephone numbers. I think this is more likely to be the type of diary that Suzy kept in her bag, not something extremely personal.

For this reason I doubt she was in a particular hurry to get it back once she knew it and the cheque book were safe and being kept for her. The pub was only a short walk from her flat, around the corner, and the obvious thing to do would be to collect it on her way home. So I think the pub is a red herring and that she never went back there.

I believe you are correct @Cherwell, as AS in his book describes it as a pocket diary. So probably similar to yours, to keep appointments in, etc.

In his book, the last chapter in fact, AS describes what happened when Suzy's family objected to the final draft of the book. In it he tells how he felt when the police first gave him access to look at some items connected with Suzy, and he describes how a detective unlocked a cabinet and brought out Suzy's cheque card, diaries and purse. Note he says diaries, so the more personal ones were probably not the one she kept with her when she was at work, but were likely retrieved from her home.

 

[su5ie]

Where have you got the information from that Suzy's DNA was found in a car that JC had access to? The only DNA they have been testing is from a smudged fingerprint found on the rear-view mirror of Suzy's Ford Fiesta.

As for 3 victims beginning with S in '86, SB was abducted and murdered in 1987.

SLP? Could stand for 'Stupid London Police' for all we know. JMOO of course!

I will find it now WiseOwl I should have saved the link but as far as I remember both womens DNA was found in the car but was not enough to ensure a conviction
if I'm mistaken and it was Sandra's and Shirley's I will ask the mod to delete my post on the matter if you can tell me who that is .

As far as I remember it was when police located a red ford sierra in a scrapyard when they had a fresh look at suzys case circa 2001

Thank you for pointing this out as I would not like to mislead

John Cannan - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[su5ie]

Everyone seems to think of the diary as being a journal-type diary. My view is that a personal journal-type diary would have been kept at home, not carried around daily in a handbag.

As an office worker in the 80s, I carried a pocket diary in my handbag, which I used to record appointments, other aides-memoire and also telephone numbers. I think this is more likely to be the type of diary that Suzy kept in her bag, not something extremely personal.

For this reason I doubt she was in a particular hurry to get it back once she knew it and the cheque book were safe and being kept for her. The pub was only a short walk from her flat, around the corner, and the obvious thing to do would be to collect it on her way home. So I think the pub is a red herring and that she never went back there.

Brilliant observation

 

[su5ie]

Talking With Serial Killers: World's Most Evil

Christopher Berry-Dee is back. In Talking With Serial Killers: World's Most Evil, the bestselling author delves deeper still into the gloomy underworld of killers and their crimes. He examines, with shocking detail and clarity, the lives and lies of people who have killed, and shines a light on...

books.google.ie

Found this if anyone is interested in names of people regarding the PoW and sturgis staff