UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #8

[lee sumner]

Hi

Cannot remember if I posted this one upthread but its quite an interesting article as well. Sunday Telegraph 29.3.87


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very interesting. it says SL could be absent minded, but losing keys is one thing, its something we all do. i always leave my keys to my flat at my friends flat, but i never lose my car keys, so yes, she might lose things from time to time, but i doubt she would leave the handbrake off and park the car badly with the door unlocked, and what happened to the keys and paperwork to 37SR.

 

[lee sumner]

How on earth could DL even know that? Unless the lodger told her, which I suppose is what DL is implying.

DL was writing a rose tinted narrative of what she wanted SL's life to have been.

You can see why SL probably hid things from her mother - because she was controlling - but I don't think the dynamic is that unusual. DL was perhaps a tad more controlling than many and sadly her need to sanitise her daughter's life likely has impacted on finding her killer.

DL wrote the letter in september 1986. it was like you say, a rose tinted narrative of her version of SL life, which we all now know is a load of BS.

 

[kes1972]

it says SL lost items going into her flat, not the POW.

So the items got from her flat to the pow on which day is the main question, friday?or sunday?

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

So NB originally said he had chatted to her for a bit, "late" on Sunday. I don't think 9PM is "late" and I doubt NB or SL did. Even on a Sunday night. 11PM or midnight would be "late" in that context. Where was that reported? Didn't he get in late and sleep later than she did the next morning? Then later he claimed he can't remember seeing her. I know it's a long time ago but if that's the last time you saw someone who you lived with and who was abducted and murdered the day later - you'd remember that! Maybe he saw her in passing very late but if he'd had a few it might be a blur and you might not remember if it was that day or another one.

Could he have really forgotten all these years later?

KH thinks the placement of the items suggested she'd stuck her bag on the table and they'd fallen out, which makes sense. She must have been in a rush then. Your comment that it was dark or dusk would reinforce that, as visibility lower.

The Sunday night is so crucial, why is it so hard to bottom it out?

I think the Sunday night ‘cover up’, if that’s what is was & there is good evidence for it, has been very problematic. It was assumed it wouldn’t make any odds but it means there are errors in the timeline. Was NB originally asked to say he saw her on Sunday by the police? They HAD asked to alter a factual detail to this end re: AS.

Did the police ever bottom out who she saw? The expat presumably confirmed or denied when Interpol involved. She’d met him at an HAC ball with AL & DW, from ‘Putney Set’ on Sat 5th July. July 17th AL heads to Canaries.

Saturday 19th July SL goes to expat’s Mayfair flat & on to two clubs with him meeting a stockbroker who had been fined for insider dealing who buys her champagne. Police later trace via credit card slips & eliminate him.

Saturday 19th July evening expat says they took two separate taxis home from Roof Gardens.

Sunday 20th July at 10:00am, SL was back at expat’s Mayfair flat watching boxing videoed from Sat night. Tim Witherspoon USA defeats Frank Bruno.

Monday 21 July SL says to Sturgis colleagues “Guess where I spent Saturday night!” (In Mayfair with expat).

There’s a reasonable chance the expat was at 21st invited by hostesses family. Unproven. Family circles overlapped.

So…SL had seen expat at least 3 times pre the unaccounted for Sunday night…why not see him later then on Sunday night he could pick her up away from any prying eyes in any flash car he might garage in London? In 2026 it’s hard to see need for secrecy but in 1986 it might lose needed sympathy in appeals. So steady & loyal, middle class AL steps up.

Also what if - & the hurried exit from picnic table might point to this - it was to iron something out about the imminent deal she’d discussed with her parents NOT another tryst with expat. Surely she’d be tired. She’d been up to wee hours at 21st & windsurfing on Sunday.

Her parents had sown a seed of doubt perhaps, might the minor address fraud be illegal in practice & the ‘strings’ less than ideal?

So she drew a line & resolved & came into work happily on Monday. ‘Kipper’ wasn’t going to let her off hook so easily though…

*Source of info AS.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

So what is the truth and the whole truth?friday or sunday? That is vital information so why did police put out false information?

Reputation was everything. If it came out she was ‘promiscuous’ (differing views of times) & with a man other than boyfriend on Sun night & was a bit ‘free and easy’ then they’ve lost public sympathy & they needed it for a campaign. I do wonder at some other sensitivity about Sunday night we don’t know about.

Also likely it wasn’t seen as ‘vital information’ AS said the change he was asked by police to make was ‘inconsequential’ poss on pre abduction timeline. It’s only a forgotten chequebook & diary - who cares if lost on Friday or Sunday? Makes no odds as bad actors only in play at her abduction or Monday afternoon. As it was seen then perhaps…

Honestly, we don’t know if things lost on Fri or Sunday & I fear some of this ‘inconsequential’ detail might have been lost to mists of time & maybe Phoebus reinvestigation in 2000. Seen as something minor BEFORE her abduction.

It does seem KH didn’t arrive on Friday - he wasn’t needed for shift cover until Monday. Unless a time traveller he simply couldn’t have found her things on Friday. Other evidence too as given. KH arriving on Sunday checks out with regular landlords at pub so that means items could only have been found on Sunday.

 

[kes1972]

So the items got from her flat to the pow on which day is the main question, friday?or sunday?

Also i guess it could have been saturday if al had them

 

[Kasparthecat1]

Hi

Cannot remember if I posted this one upthread but its quite an interesting article as well. Sunday Telegraph 29.3.87


View attachment 649133

Really interesting article.

Couple of things which stand out for me:

- there were a couple of phone boxes in Stevenage Road.
- the workmen in Stevenage Road were working 40 yards away. So not particularly close at all. Close enough to hear an altercation perhaps but not enough to notice the coming (or returning, of that's what happened) of the white Fiesta.
- SJL is confirmed in this article to be absent-minded. Gives an explanation perhaps for the car door to be left unlocked and even for the purse to be left in it. I'm still bugged by the handbrake's being left off. Pulling a handbrake up is almost a reflex action.

The theory posited here is flawed, but interesting nonetheless. Includes the rowing couple, but not other "sightings" in the vicinity.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

Really interesting article.

Couple of things which stand out for me:

- there were a couple of phone boxes in Stevenage Road.
- the workmen in Stevenage Road were working 40 yards away. So not particularly close at all. Close enough to hear an altercation perhaps but not enough to notice the coming (or returning, of that's what happened) of the white Fiesta.
- SJL is confirmed in this article to be absent-minded. Gives an explanation perhaps for the car door to be left unlocked and even for the purse to be left in it. I'm still bugged by the handbrake's being left off. Pulling a handbrake up is almost a reflex action.

The theory posited here is flawed, but interesting nonetheless. Includes the rowing couple, but not other "sightings" in the vicinity.

I think odds are good WJ incorrect on early fiesta sighting so that’s one ticked off perhaps.

Agree, 40 yards a long way & presumably drilling involved?

Being frogmarched to make a call - JC did the frogmarching with SM & forced call with SB? Those calls to pub can’t bs easily explained & happened just around sweet spot of possible escalation re: ‘right ruck’.

Phone boxes were a lifeline & so important back then & car 2 mins from it.

 

[Kasparthecat1]

A phone box ‘2 minutes’ from where her car was found & a row & escalation after ‘mystery’ calls to pub…

was ADHD known back in 1980s

I was a teacher back then. I can't remember any pupil I came across as having what is now termed ADHD (or whatever the correct term now is). I think Autism as a general term was known about, but iirc most pupils with a diagnosis attended special schools. Dyslexia was known about, but I can't recall coming across it much either. Not sure if there was any particular treatment even. Times have changed though. I come across (possibly previously undiagnosed) dyslexia and ADHD in my current work, in adults.

 

[Kasparthecat1]

I think odds are good WJ incorrect on early fiesta sighting so that’s one ticked off perhaps.

Agree, 40 yards a long way & presumably drilling involved?

Being frogmarched to make a call - JC did the frogmarching with SM & forced call with SB? Those calls to pub can’t bs easily explained & happened just around sweet spot of possible escalation re: ‘right ruck’.

Phone boxes were a lifeline & so important back then & car 2 mins from it.

Existence of phone boxes particularly interesting in light of the mysterious calls to the POW in the afternoon and recalled by Clive.

 

[Konstantin]

Agree, 40 yards a long way & presumably drilling involved

If you're digging up a road it's noisy and you have ear covers on. And you concentrate on what you're doing.

Passers-by on a road aren't going to catch your attention, nor are cars coming and going.

 

[Kasparthecat1]

If you're digging up a road it's noisy and you have ear covers on. And you concentrate on what you're doing.

Passers-by on a road aren't going to catch your attention, nor are cars coming and going.

Yup. Especially from 40 yards.

 

[Kasparthecat1]

So the items got from her flat to the pow on which day is the main question, friday?or sunday?

General consensus is Sunday, as relief landlord KH aka CV not around till then to pick them up outside the POW.

 

[Konstantin]

General consensus is Sunday, as relief landlord KH aka CV not around till then to pick them up outside the POW.

Sunday would presumably be a lot quieter than Friday so perhaps less chance of the items being stolen before KH could find them?

Or were Sundays back then busy? LSW mentioned long queues for the phone box.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

Sunday would presumably be a lot quieter than Friday so perhaps less chance of the items being stolen before KH could find them?

Or were Sundays back then busy? LSW mentioned long queues for the phone box.

Sun evening used to be when, IME, people particularly made calls home & would often have to wait (banging on glass if got impatient). Imagine people would generally hand in anything found to pub (?) You’d hope.

I can just imagine her sitting at a picnic table waiting…

 

[WestLondoner]

I was a teacher back then. I can't remember any pupil I came across as having what is now termed ADHD (or whatever the correct term now is).

ADHD was invented in the 1990s and was commented on at the time as being a medicalised version of the term "naughty". A child who messed around and paid no attention in class was naughty, but parents didn't want to hear this. ADHD now seems to amount to "is unable put the bl00dy iPhone down and do something".

Sunday would presumably be a lot quieter than Friday so perhaps less chance of the items being stolen before KH could find them?

The problem with the claim the stuff was lost on Friday is that it must rest on AL's account and does not foot with when KH arrived or with MB's account (he being the permanent landlord who recalls being around when KH asked him what to do with lost property).

 

[Kasparthecat1]

ADHD was invented in the 1990s and was commented on at the time as being a medicalised version of the term "naughty". A child who messed around and paid no attention in class was naughty, but parents didn't want to hear this. ADHD now seems to amount to "is unable put the bl00dy iPhone down and do something".

The problem with the claim the stuff was lost on Friday is that it must rest on AL's account and does not foot with when KH arrived or with MB's account (he being the permanent landlord who recalls being around when KH asked him what to do with lost property).

Do we actually know what time KH found the items that Sunday night? We know he was on his way to get a Chinese takeaway (or on his way back?) as per his conversation with DV but I can't recall DV asking him what time this was, precisely, other than it must've been quite late by then.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

ADHD was invented in the 1990s and was commented on at the time as being a medicalised version of the term "naughty". A child who messed around and paid no attention in class was naughty, but parents didn't want to hear this. ADHD now seems to amount to "is unable put the bl00dy iPhone down and do something".

The problem with the claim the stuff was lost on Friday is that it must rest on AL's account and does not foot with when KH arrived or with MB's account (he being the permanent landlord who recalls being around when KH asked him what to do with lost property).

Or AL was sanctioned to say Fri not Sun by police. just as AS was…The police & DL requesting change to preserve SL’s reputation. We do know AS WAS asked to make a change like this. If so, this all fits together rather better

Possibly fits even better now Barley in podcast has confirmed SL went elsewhere later on Sunday AND LIED to AL about it.

At time it was so thought lost property day/time a complete irrelevance to SL’s Mon abduction. It’s only missing stuff after all.

It would also explain any erroneous embroidery by AL about POW on Fri night & fact he’d forgotten when telling DV. All ok as reputation preserving if so & police greenlit.

MB I thought had convo with KH on return on lost property & not around when found (DV).

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

Do we actually know what time KH found the items that Sunday night? We know he was on his way to get a Chinese takeaway (or on his way back?) as per his conversation with DV but I can't recall DV asking him what time this was, precisely, other than it must've been quite late by then.

No but she left her parents at 9pm.

She left Worthing at 5:30pm. She then took her surfboard to her flat in Putney she, AS tells us, felt uncharacteristically tired. Why not go to pub/phone on return & make plans for later.

This would be about 7-7:30pm. Why not then? Would tie in with Chinese takeaway perhaps.

 

[Kasparthecat1]

This would be about 7-7:30pm. Why not then? Would tie in with Chinese takeaway perhaps.

My thoughts too.