UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #8

[kes1972]

Well Taggart had a lock up garage - the flats seemed to commonly have. Did anyone try keys he had at SB arrest time in 87? Still could see if a type that might have been a likely fit.

100% he always had somewhere of use

 

[kes1972]

He said it was a man & gave his name & some detail.

Oh ok, do you know the name?

 

[kes1972]

Barley on Taggart - I think lines of inquiry at time were about the shared car with JC & it wouldn’t surprise me if there was no deep delve on him - why would Barley know about his flat etc? I’ll try to find & post what he said in 2000 -Taggart did his best to disassociate himself from any chumminess with JC & put as much clear water between them as poss so likely this was communicated to the police. JC picked up his HP on sierra as he couldn’t afford. Nothing to see here…That last hurrah at SuperHire - if that’s what it was - interesting on timing -NB: high jinks at July break in.

On SB

It’s possible SB knew JC - she did by sight we know from wine bar & her husband knew of him.

It’s possible SB agreed to go back willingly with JC. Unfortunately, despite being a newly wed some marital problems. NB: RB taking a while to report. She was snooping in the monks chest in sitting room. Fingerprint on a private investigator’s doc re: AR! Sinister - did SB get worried?

The phone call is odd.

The police took call to pub very seriously in a case where they quickly dismissed some other leads, why the pub if SL? They considered at time SL & her attacker both called KH - ‘Sarah’ & ‘policeman’. KH then, it was thought, poss got confused with details. It all happened well before SL reported missing. That was important.

**JC MO to get woman held captive to call where expected to buy himself time: NB: SB. IF SL why would she have volunteered pub as a destination where expected potentially? Are these ‘calls’ what made DV suspect the man he called CV in part?

The SB calls…

She rang in to work, sick, NOT on direct line BUT main switchboard. Was this as JC looking work up in directory to prevent a subtle plea for help being detected? Had SL tried that? SB said all lines to Dept were engaged - not true. The woman answering knew SB & greeted her, puzzled, by name & put her through to her Dept - that hadn’t been engaged.

The taxi poss just JC being sadistic pretending to let SB go. Odd no record of it at taxi firm. OR she was going home & JC lost cool & imprisoned.

I think he just got off on giving his victims hope.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

I think he just got off on giving his victims hope.

Sadly, yes, how utterly grim. He must have allowed SB to change - as found in new clothes bought in Top Shop not what wearing when went missing shopping - too. Empty Top Shop bag that had contained new clothes found in car. Also walk a fair distance before finally killing her.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

Hi all

Wow you guys have been full on the last couple of days ! As always you have some absolutely great posts in here.

AR has been reported as being a 'shell of a woman' after the trial where she had to give evidence, and was I think admitted to a facility because of her mental health after the trial ended . It is entirely possible she bought him the train ticket when you think about it. She did not end the relationship until around Sept 87 (will find this article re the trial)

So, just thinking about things, JC was in this relationship with AR (he wanted her to leave her hubby, be together, set up the consultancy). I think AR was his second DS (ie he did love her in his strange and twisted way initially). She knows he is in prison but has a relationship with him anyway . (So yep, she would have known she was breaching her ethical code of conduct within her profession but she chose to anyway).

Now I would have thought his focus would have been hot footing it to Bristol on 25 July to reconcile with his love and try to plan the future with her.

Unless there had been some comms with her that triggered him. Maybe she told him not to come that weekend.
Maybe they had some secret rendevous planned and this ticket was bought but he never went in the end.
Was this maybe a trigger for him to go out and find someone . Not necessarily SJL herself but a girl that looked like AR, P.Di, you know , blonde, hair type at the time , nice figure.

Cannot quite reconcile the broad daylight situation still. But maybe he was waiting around all weekend for AR to give the green light and when she didn't , that blew the fuse. Yes he may have seen SL before around Fulham (just like SB in the pub in Avon Gorge but never had any contact with her but knew briefly who she was)

Moving on from the above:

MB did not answer ANY of our questions in any detail.I will not comment further about that here. However I have about a 1000qns more now after reading through the archive of articles and I am sure you all do too.

Now MB dismissed the flat scenario in about 10 seconds flat and said it was too expensive in Fulham for anyone just out of the slammer to have access to said flat. Umm. No one said it was a million dollar flat.
Even so. THEY should have known or DO know this to this day and it is ignored. This would go along way in explaining where he was from Friday 25th to Monday 28th July. The fact they could never establish this is a critical failure.

In 2026 the MET need to provide the bones (literally) that puts this structure they propose together to the public. His statement about him driving her up the M5 to NB is just a bit of fluff. IN what car, where is this car today? In what timeframe? Where did the tools come from to dispose of her body? ( ie, tarps, blankets, stuff to conceal bodily fluids.) If SL was killed somewhere after 3pm Monday well her body would start decomposing within a few hours (especially in Summer).

If this occured at a flat somewhere in Fulham/HSmith etc - if the BW sighting is correct then there is only a very short window of time for the Fiesta to be back in Stevenage. If he has left her restrained and then returned the car, thats a risky situation so that would probably indicate she had passed away by then. (but he obviously did that with SB (taxi phone call) still dont get that tbh)

Then leaves the conundrum of disposing of her body - without leaving ONE trace of evidence. Not to mention the keys, items of clothing etc. Both SB and SCs belongings were either scattered about (handbag, etc) or still in his possession (tax disc SB etc)

If he drove her to NB in the Sierra there is no way he is a 'clean enough' criminal to ensure there is not one piece of evidence left behind in that Sierra. He clearly was at his mothers in SC on Wednesday 30th according to MB in the Podcast. So what, did he put the spade and props in her garden shed ?!

OTOH If this BMW that belonged to R from Belgium that was reported stolen and then recovered in STJWd - they said they investigated that, but if JC stole this car and used that, why abandon it back in London after being at NB? Seems a stretch.

The BW sighting is critical to the timeline here. IMO I do not believe she was mistaken. Yes she took 4 days to come forward, but as she said at the time, she did not know SJL was missing until the day after, and then did not realise she probably was the last person to see her. I know that can seem weird in this day and age, but back then, I do not think its inconceivable.

SO, lots and lots of thoughts here.

To add am extremely confident for various reasons on BW. Maybe we should be starting there & working backwards.

 

[Rookie D]

To add am extremely confident for various reasons on BW. Maybe we should be starting there & working backwards.

Do we know exactly where on Fulham Palace Road that BW claimed to have seen SL driving with a male passenger?

I would suggest that the further north the sighting, the more peculiar it is.

It seems to me that of all the witnesses who claimed to have seen SL, that BW at least knew her, and had no known reason to lie or be mistaken.

I would be inclined to be more sceptical of witnesses who came forward much later in the investigation, with alleged sightings of SL.

That's not always the case of course, but generally speaking, I think that's true.

 

[kes1972]

Do we know exactly where on Fulham Palace Road that BW claimed to have seen SL driving with a male passenger?

I would suggest that the further north the sighting, the more peculiar it is.

It seems to me that of all the witnesses who claimed to have seen SL, that BW at least knew her, and had no known reason to lie or be mistaken.

I would be inclined to be more sceptical of witnesses who came forward much later in the investigation, with alleged sightings of SL.

That's not always the case of course, but generally speaking, I think that's true.

Yes it is on the crimewatch docu but it does not help they showed the car going in the opposite direction and bw on the other side of the road, i have to wonder why bw did not say to them no this is not right, that is what i find most questionable about the bw account

 

[WestLondoner]

I think he just got off on giving his victims hope.

Also an effective subjugation tactic. If they thought he was going to spare them they'd be co-operative. If not, they'd have nothing to lose by resisting to the max.

DT must have been terrified. Raped twice in a notably cruel way, threatened with a knife, and she had seen his face. You would assume you'd be murdered next.

Do we know exactly where on Fulham Palace Road that BW claimed to have seen SL driving with a male passenger?

I would suggest that the further north the sighting, the more peculiar it is.

Not sure exactly - I believe opposite the cemetery but can't recall source. However: if SJL were parked opposite 123SR, drove off at 2.40, and took the first right (Langthorne), she'd turn left onto the FPR opposite the cemetery. If she then turned right into Greyhound Road, she'd arrive outside Taggart's flat. It's 1.3 miles; say, four minutes.

I would be inclined to be more sceptical of witnesses who came forward much later in the investigation, with alleged sightings of SL.

100%. They've heard so many other sightings you wonder if they're incorporated those.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

Also an effective subjugation tactic. If they thought he was going to spare them they'd be co-operative. If not, they'd have nothing to lose by resisting to the max.

DT must have been terrified. Raped twice in a notably cruel way, threatened with a knife, and she had seen his face. You would assume you'd be murdered next.

Not sure exactly - I believe opposite the cemetery but can't recall source. However: if SJL were parked opposite 123SR, drove off at 2.40, and took the first right (Langthorne), she'd turn left onto the FPR opposite the cemetery. If she then turned right into Greyhound Road, she'd arrive outside Taggart's flat. It's 1.3 miles; say, four minutes.


100%. They've heard so many other sightings you wonder if they're incorporated those.

DT was incredibly brave. She offered him a cigarette & smoked with him post ordeal. Imagine. Her cool, quick & calm thinking undoubtedly saved her life.

 

[lee sumner]

Sadly, yes, how utterly grim. He must have allowed SB to change - as found in new clothes bought in Top Shop not what wearing when went missing shopping - too. Empty Top Shop bag that had contained new clothes found in car. Also walk a fair distance before finally killing her.

yes, JC forced SB to put on her new dress bought from top shop. he obviously wanted to rape her while she wore new dress.

 

[lee sumner]

To add am extremely confident for various reasons on BW. Maybe we should be starting there & working backwards.

the questions we ask on this forum are excellent questions that need answers.

 

[Rookie D]

yes, JC forced SB to put on her new dress bought from top shop. he obviously wanted to rape her while she wore new dress.

I thought she bought a new dress from Debenhams

And then went into M&S and bought stockings and new shoes.

Her last sighting being in M&S.

Not sure where the Top Shop clothing fits into it all.

 

[Rookie D]

Also an effective subjugation tactic. If they thought he was going to spare them they'd be co-operative. If not, they'd have nothing to lose by resisting to the max.

DT must have been terrified. Raped twice in a notably cruel way, threatened with a knife, and she had seen his face. You would assume you'd be murdered next.

Not sure exactly - I believe opposite the cemetery but can't recall source. However: if SJL were parked opposite 123SR, drove off at 2.40, and took the first right (Langthorne), she'd turn left onto the FPR opposite the cemetery. If she then turned right into Greyhound Road, she'd arrive outside Taggart's flat. It's 1.3 miles; say, four minutes.


100%. They've heard so many other sightings you wonder if they're incorporated those.

Do we know whereabouts on Greyhound road that Taggart had his lock up?


Fascinating indeed

 

[Rookie D]

The 4 keys that were found by police during the Shirley Banks murder case; was it ever discovered what they opened?

If Cannan kept Bank's car as a trophy, or possibly that he intended to sell as a 2nd hand vehicle (he had been a car dealer in his youth after all) then could the same behaviour apply in terms of his alleged connection to the SL murder, in that those 4 keys could have been to a lock up/flat that Cannan took SL to after he allegedly abducted her?

I wonder if the police still have those 4 keys?

If they do, then looking in Greyhound Road could be a good place to start.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

I thought she bought a new dress from Debenhams

And then went into M&S and bought stockings and new shoes.

Her last sighting being in M&S.

Not sure where the Top Shop clothing fits into it all.

She was shopping at Debenhams in Broadmead centre, Bristol. TopShop within that complex. NB: attached / CBD: Prime Suspect. Last sighting by a work colleague on escalator there. The bag used unusually oversized (Top Shop branded)as shop assistant had run out of normal bags. Found in JC’s passenger footwell - not SB’s. Does that tell us anything? They could prove one & same bag. Amazing policework & forensics generally in all SB case IMO. There was a press article about additional shoes & a bag possibly bought elsewhere.

She was wearing close fitting yellow slacks & a cream top when last seen & new dress in bag. Where did they go?

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

The 4 keys that were found by police during the Shirley Banks murder case; was it ever discovered what they opened?

If Cannan kept Bank's car as a trophy, or possibly that he intended to sell as a 2nd hand vehicle (he had been a car dealer in his youth after all) then could the same behaviour apply in terms of his alleged connection to the SL murder, in that those 4 keys could have been to a lock up/flat that Cannan took SL to after he allegedly abducted her?

I wonder if the police still have those 4 keys?

If they do, then looking in Greyhound Road could be a good place to start.

One key was for a hotel in Paignton he’d been to with GP. Another they couldn’t identify but they thought for a squire padlock.

He’d rented a lock up for AR. He received a cheque for £47 for it from her but denied all knowledge to Saunders. “You’ll not find any lock-up in my name either in Bristol or in any other part of the country” (Source: Prime Suspect, CBD). He REALLY wanted to disassociate himself from ANY link to lock-up garages & oddly, ‘property services’ that hired them.

 

[kes1972]

DT was incredibly brave. She offered him a cigarette & smoked with him post ordeal. Imagine. Her cool, quick & calm thinking undoubtedly saved her life.

I read he loved driving around the new forest which is where i think sl is, he was a sucker for road names or names, where dt was raped was next to a road with a macabre name it escapes me now and dead womans ditch,

 

[WestLondoner]

Do we know whereabouts on Greyhound road that Taggart had his lock up?

Yes, roughly. To the east, Greyhound Road becomes Star Road. Just before Star Road meets North End Road, from Vereker Road onward, the buildings on the north side are council flats. There is a quadrilateral road off it to the north called Sun Road. I think the block Taggart lived in occupied the inside of that quadrilateral and his address was either Star Road or Sun Road. The garages are round the back; there are more flats than garages, so it's not one each.

I'd like to know if his stash of keys opened any of those doors; or any at Superhire.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

I read he loved driving around the new forest which is where i think sl is, he was a sucker for road names or names, where dt was raped was next to a road with a macabre name it escapes me now and dead womans ditch,

I assumed Dead Woman’s Ditch was exactly where SB found & a tiny grid ref area he’d deliberately found, but it’s a nature reserve & big. So for me it loses some/any sinister, deliberate significance for that reason. SB was found at Barrs Bottom near Crowcombe Hill.

Donna parked up at Chantry Green by Sava Centre roundabout & JC carjacked her by asking about nearby Balfour Drive & I don’t think any macabre road name nearby (?)

The canal dumping did have a macabre name - ‘Gallows’ something would need to check back.

Dead Woman's Ditch - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org