UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #8

[Lady Stoddart-West]

Another couple of posts

Re Flowers (Daily Express 14.8.86)

Re Joint purchase of flat (7.2.87) offering $30K- now did this piece of information come from the parents?! I am gobsmacked.

I think there may be a clue in “Suzy wouldn’t get involved in anything illegal” her parents may have kept quiet on deal as they thought didn’t paint SL in good light. I think it was pivotal & I’ve an awful feeling there might be something in that contact book that AS says they never finished investigating. Someone could very easily have fobbed them off. Most of resources needed to be allocated here IMO - visit them. Poss easy to say in retrospect.

She did discuss deal to some degree with parents, maybe even at ‘length’ as one paper said. Her father will have urged caution. Did this mean ultimately she pulled out.

When you factor in the man leaning on her - source: uncle - & her being ‘almost angry’ (quick visit on Sun night to clear a niggle up) this deal might be pivotal.

I think SL told them he was a Sturgis client - where police investigated thoroughly - when he wasn’t. Another issue.

Flowers - expat poss the source? Did she describe to Mum on phone? Although I agree, some exaggeration likely. She’s not likely to admit source to Mum if dating AL etc perhaps.

 

[Officer Dibble]

Another couple of posts

Re Flowers (Daily Express 14.8.86)

Re Joint purchase of flat (7.2.87) offering $30K- now did this piece of information come from the parents?! I am gobsmacked.

Was the missing luggage with letters with possible clues about the mystery man ever found?

 

[lee sumner]

NB: this ‘beautiful uptown girl’ he boasted about dating in Fulham. Same language as Superhire colleague in doc ‘he was dating a beautiful uptown girl named Sue Sue’. We now know this was almost certainly ‘Sue’ from Peabody estate.

On tennis racquet, it’s an interesting detail, the obvious thing would be she bought it herself (??) but I’ve read elsewhere they thought it was a very recent ‘gift’. I wonder who was source there? Lodger? Mum?

On the Bristol link, I read her mother also said she dated someone scary from there & planned to drop him. Similar said here. DV made good point Birmingham/Sutton Coldfield his home (so no Bristol link) & his time living in Bristol came later. That’s true BUT allegedly he called himself a Bristol businessman in May 86 & also of course he’d spent a lot of time in Bristol, albeit at Her Majesty’s Pleasure

There was also, as DV rightly said, a West Country or Bristol affair & and this was in 1984. He omits that also there seem to have been references to a date from Bristol from May 1986.

may 1986 JC was still technically in custody, so there is no way he could pretend to be a wealthy bristol businessman.

 

[lee sumner]

I think there may be a clue in “Suzy wouldn’t get involved in anything illegal” her parents may have kept quiet on deal as they thought didn’t paint SL in good light. I think it was pivotal & I’ve an awful feeling there might be something in that contact book that AS says they never finished investigating. Someone could very easily have fobbed them off. Most of resources needed to be allocated here IMO - visit them. Poss easy to say in retrospect.

She did discuss deal to some degree with parents, maybe even at ‘length’ as one paper said. Her father will have urged caution. Did this mean ultimately she pulled out.

When you factor in the man leaning on her - source: uncle - & her being ‘almost angry’ (quick visit on Sun night to clear a niggle up) this deal might be pivotal.

I think SL told them he was a Sturgis client - where police investigated thoroughly - when he wasn’t. Another issue.

Flowers - expat poss the source? Did she describe to Mum on phone? Although I agree, some exaggeration likely. She’s not likely to admit source to Mum if dating AL etc perhaps.

her parents did not mention deal to detectives till much later, yet they talked to SL about it on the sunday before she went missing. i think you might be on to something here. very interesting.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

may 1986 JC was still technically in custody, so there is no way he could pretend to be a wealthy bristol businessman.

I don’t know, he had access to quite a bit - relatively - of money - poss even more than we know if behind superhire robberies. He fooled many in his time even those smart enough to know better. His father’s legacy too. Other ££ later from uncle - not then.

If him, he had £ to hire a car & maybe a hotel room or flat in very short term. Not easy though, yes, definitely.

We know he met uptown ‘Sue’ & was investigating buying a house, posing as an executive almost certainly, so must have looked a bit presentable.

 

[lee sumner]

I think there may be a clue in “Suzy wouldn’t get involved in anything illegal” her parents may have kept quiet on deal as they thought didn’t paint SL in good light. I think it was pivotal & I’ve an awful feeling there might be something in that contact book that AS says they never finished investigating. Someone could very easily have fobbed them off. Most of resources needed to be allocated here IMO - visit them. Poss easy to say in retrospect.

She did discuss deal to some degree with parents, maybe even at ‘length’ as one paper said. Her father will have urged caution. Did this mean ultimately she pulled out.

When you factor in the man leaning on her - source: uncle - & her being ‘almost angry’ (quick visit on Sun night to clear a niggle up) this deal might be pivotal.

I think SL told them he was a Sturgis client - where police investigated thoroughly - when he wasn’t. Another issue.

Flowers - expat poss the source? Did she describe to Mum on phone? Although I agree, some exaggeration likely. She’s not likely to admit source to Mum if dating AL etc perhaps.

mr bahamas i call him. he was a contact of AL. SL slept with him while AL was on holiday. he denied this saying she came home with him in the early hours, then got a taxi home around 3am, but she was back there in the morning to watch the frank bruno boxing match. its so obvious SL spent the night with him. its all there in AS book.

 

[lee sumner]

I don’t know, he had access to quite a bit - relatively - of money - poss even more than we know if behind superhire robberies. He fooled many in his time even those smart enough to know better. His father’s legacy too. Other ££ later from uncle - not then.

If him, he had £ to hire a car & maybe a hotel room or flat in very short term. Not easy though, yes, definitely.

it could be done yes, but there is something missing. iam starting to think he did not snatch SL that day. with all the other interesting info uncovered over last few days it makes me wonder.

 

[lee sumner]

Very good point on letter - source below says posted 13 days afterwards & a jaunt out to Southampton to post a letter does feel unlikely although maybe not impossible if coincided with end of week etc or any home leave (?)

On SC do you have a source on JC being cleared? JD on the record as JC being very much in the frame.

JD in press recently talking about a fingerprint in SL’s fiesta - they were really hoping DNA/forensics would lead to a breakthrough here, although I get feeling only in that they are hoping a magnification meant they could compare to JC.

I’ve only ever heard of x2 hairs found in Sierra.

i meant it was posted from southampton on the tuesday.

 

[lee sumner]

I don’t know, he had access to quite a bit - relatively - of money - poss even more than we know if behind superhire robberies. He fooled many in his time even those smart enough to know better. His father’s legacy too. Other ££ later from uncle - not then.

If him, he had £ to hire a car & maybe a hotel room or flat in very short term. Not easy though, yes, definitely.

We know he met uptown ‘Sue’ & was investigating buying a house, posing as an executive almost certainly, so must have looked a bit presentable.

JC father cyril left him money when he died, and his uncle left money. so he could have had a decent amount when he got out. enough to impress the ladies, which is his MO.

 

[Rookie D]

the info is madness. he was in prison, so he cant be bristol businessman, and why travel over hundred miles to dispose of SL body.

Abduction serial killers often choose to travel a considerable distance in order to deposit their victim.

It's not just the act of killing that they enjoy, but rather the process of abducting, controlling, and spending some time with their victim before they kill them; all the while enabling time for the victim to feel fearful of their life, and even give them false hope that they will be spared.

Abduction and Deposition sites are often far enough away from each other for the police to have a tougher time in tracing the culprit.

By a killer travelling across jurisdictional boundaries, it makes the job of the police all that bit harder.

So one would expect that the man who abducted SL, is likely to have travelled outside of the local buffer zone in which the victim was taken.

It's important to differentiate between the abduction site, the kill site, and the deposition site, as they can all be vastly different in terms of geographical location.

If the killer did drive SL out of London then the obvious choice from Fulham, would be west via the M4...towards Bristol.

But the killer may have taken her to a lock up/bolt hole first, and then drove her to the deposition site later.

 

[lee sumner]

Yes, I thought expat a good call until I saw article of time naming AL - posted upthread. Poss corporate tickets. (On the football).

I think he might have been at 21st with SL, poss invited independently as their family circles overlapped I think - those ‘posh’ circles tight from birth. I have no evidence he was there so just a surmise. Then we have AL turning up & leaving alone in Worthing the next day on beach.

SL saw him whilst AL away. Yes.

We don’t know much about him, it’s interesting he isn’t named in AS, one of the very few who isn’t. He is named in a press article which is how I could research & find a bit.

Barley has now seemingly confirmed in the podcast SL saw someone after parents. I think the odds are good it was him & this was hushed up. Sun night changed to Fri etc as hypothesised upthread. Optics were poor on spending some of night with another man not boyfriend esp if ‘romantic’. He was someone they wanted to question fast & thoroughly, hence Interpol etc. There definitely is/was sensitivity over Sun night.

in AS book he is not named, so i call him mr bahamas, because he does business a lot in the bahamas. i think his fancy flat was in mayfair.

 

[lee sumner]

Abduction serial killers often choose to travel a considerable distance in order to deposit their victim.

It's not just the act of killing that they enjoy, but rather the process of abducting, controlling, and spending some time with their victim before they kill them; all the while enabling time for the victim to feel fearful of their life, and even give them false hope that they will be spared.

Abduction and Deposition sites are often far enough away from each other for the police to have a tougher time in tracing the culprit.

By a killer travelling across jurisdictional boundaries, it makes the job of the police all that bit harder.

So one would expect that the man who abducted SL, is likely to have travelled outside of the local buffer zone in which the victim was taken.

It's important to differentiate between the abduction site, the kill site, and the deposition site, as they can all be vastly different in terms of geographical location.

If the killer did drive SL out of London then the obvious choice from Fulham, would be west via the M4...towards Bristol.

But the killer may have taken her to a lock up/bolt hole first, and then drove her to the deposition site later.

peter tobin is the only serial killer i know who took his victim, vicky hamilton long distance from scotland to margate. he then buried her remains at his new address, irvine drive. he did this so he would not be linked to her murder, but to me its reckless. most killers want to dispose of there victims ASAP in locations they know well, not travel hundreds of miles.

 

[lee sumner]

Abduction serial killers often choose to travel a considerable distance in order to deposit their victim.

It's not just the act of killing that they enjoy, but rather the process of abducting, controlling, and spending some time with their victim before they kill them; all the while enabling time for the victim to feel fearful of their life, and even give them false hope that they will be spared.

Abduction and Deposition sites are often far enough away from each other for the police to have a tougher time in tracing the culprit.

By a killer travelling across jurisdictional boundaries, it makes the job of the police all that bit harder.

So one would expect that the man who abducted SL, is likely to have travelled outside of the local buffer zone in which the victim was taken.

It's important to differentiate between the abduction site, the kill site, and the deposition site, as they can all be vastly different in terms of geographical location.

If the killer did drive SL out of London then the obvious choice from Fulham, would be west via the M4...towards Bristol.

But the killer may have taken her to a lock up/bolt hole first, and then drove her to the deposition site later.

this is what i believe, but i dont think SL was taken hundreds of miles away. deposition site was probably on the outskirts of london.

 

[Officer Dibble]

In these two Crimewatch reconstructions (the original one and a later one) of the day Suzy went missing, one thing that sticks out to me, that I've never heard before, is Suzy wore a hat the day she went missing!

 

[lee sumner]

In these two Crimewatch reconstructions (the original one and a later one) of the day Suzy went missing, one thing that sticks out to me, that I've never heard before, is Suzy wore a hat the day she went missing!

this reconstruction was aired 14 yrs later. SL would not wear a hat for a viewing. it would be distracting to the client in my opinion. its the type a sloane would wear to ascot or wimbledon.

 

[lee sumner]

Abduction serial killers often choose to travel a considerable distance in order to deposit their victim.

It's not just the act of killing that they enjoy, but rather the process of abducting, controlling, and spending some time with their victim before they kill them; all the while enabling time for the victim to feel fearful of their life, and even give them false hope that they will be spared.

Abduction and Deposition sites are often far enough away from each other for the police to have a tougher time in tracing the culprit.

By a killer travelling across jurisdictional boundaries, it makes the job of the police all that bit harder.

So one would expect that the man who abducted SL, is likely to have travelled outside of the local buffer zone in which the victim was taken.

It's important to differentiate between the abduction site, the kill site, and the deposition site, as they can all be vastly different in terms of geographical location.

If the killer did drive SL out of London then the obvious choice from Fulham, would be west via the M4...towards Bristol.

But the killer may have taken her to a lock up/bolt hole first, and then drove her to the deposition site later.

in the US killers are known to dump bodies in different jurisdictions, but the UK is not the same from a geographic point of view.

 

[Rookie D]

in the US killers are known to dump bodies in different jurisdictions, but the UK is not the same from a geographic point of view.

Back in the 80's the police constabularies across England did not communicate with each other.

For the Shirley Banks case, the Met sent 2 detectives to Bristol to question Cannan, but they were effectively stonewalled, because the senior officers dealing with the SB case disliked the idea of the Met police coming onto their patch.

The same issue applied with the Yorkshire Ripper, and the belief by senior officers at West Yorkshire police not wanting to accept that the Ripper may have killed further afield from their patch.

As technology has developed over the decades, the police have had no choice but to communicate more effectively and efficiently, because the various databases available to them demand it.

But back in the 80's the police really had no desire to communicate with each other, and virtually everyone outside of Greater London disliked the Met police.

The bureaucracy and red tape has always plagued policing over the years, which is unfortunate for murder victims who are abducted and deposited in a different county.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

it could be done yes, but there is something missing. iam starting to think he did not snatch SL that day. with all the other interesting info uncovered over last few days it makes me wonder.

The GP account was really powerful, the haunting account & him driving down lanes. His eyes changing to those of a psychopath & flagging SL out of nowhere & her murder & burial. This makes me consider him more seriously somehow.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

in AS book he is not named, so i call him mr bahamas, because he does business a lot in the bahamas. i think his fancy flat was in mayfair.

That’s right. Interestingly right by Sturgis HQ, flagship office as was. He lived in Bahamas half year, family based there. The Park Lane flat the London bolthole.

 

[WestLondoner]

Many thanks to whoever gifted me a sub