UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #8

[Lady Stoddart-West]

Yes it seems no one is being honest and they all seem to have something to hide, i have to question why the police allowed the discrepancies

They really didn’t want to blacken her moral character I feel. NB: ‘she was just a modern girl’ article which some were comfortable about.

It seems curiously old fashioned IMO now to worry about who she may or may not have seen on Sun night, outside of AL.

 

[kes1972]

But then at what point was the straw hat put on the back shelf of the car? Or was that a copy? If someone knew her well or had been following her they would have known/seen her habits re the straw hat. It could be easy for friends or family to say "yes that is her straw hat" when in fact it could be a close copy, in my opinion. JMO

Edited to ask again, do we know if the white fiesta VIN was checked?

Also edited to ask, were the office cars all white fiestas? Therefore did someone change the numberplates over? JMO MOO

May have taken the hat at the time and put it back later but the more i think about that scenario the less likely it seems to be realistic, why would you need to use the hat?
Scenario - someone tells sl to write down incoming interest os sr, then “hey suzy your car is on whittingstall (only change is the hat on the parcelshelf number plates and her keys swapped less the ignition key) the only people who could do this is the people returning in time for sl to leave so sl car parked on sr hat taken used in other work fiesta keys changed sl sent somewhere else maybe with someone else dealt with hat replaced purse put in door keys changed car checked by police forensics find zero because she was never on it. Need to have checked the other fiestas??

 

[Officer Dibble]

Yes they did have at least one other white fiesta at that office in use, i wonder if that was ever checked?

i don't know but someone could have switched reg numbers over and put a copycat straw hat (unless it had her fingerprints on it?) on the back passenger shelf. JMO MOO

 

[Officer Dibble]

May have taken the hat at the time and put it back later but the more i think about that scenario the less likely it seems to be realistic, why would you need to use the hat?
Scenario - someone tells sl to write down incoming interest os sr, then “hey suzy your car is on whittingstall (only change is the hat on the parcelshelf number plates and her keys swapped less the ignition key) the only people who could do this is the people returning in time for sl to leave so sl car parked on sr hat taken used in other work fiesta keys changed sl sent somewhere else maybe with someone else dealt with hat replaced purse put in door keys changed car checked by police forensics find zero because she was never on it. Need to have checked the other fiestas??

I just feel its all possible that a switch was done but if so that means a lot of planning. Edited to add: Just my opinion. JMO MOO

 

[Officer Dibble]

Strange thing to have a set of her flat keys?
And good point on someone being able to have access to her home

No not in UK. When selling your home you gave a spear set of keys to the estate agent office, for viewings by estate agent staff.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

I would love to know if it was a different branch who had spare copy of her flat keys

It was on the market with Putney branch so keys there & other branches prob borrowed as needed.

 

[kes1972]

No not in UK. When selling your home you gave a spear set of keys to the estate agent office, for viewings by estate agent staff.

Oh ok yes, i was thinking of her work

 

[kes1972]

So possibly another estate agent ? Was that line looked into or if they went into her flat on the weekend lifted the items?

 

[WestLondoner]

The calls received at 2pm approx, which might tie in with any escalation in Stevenage Rd. Pre SL reported missing & taken very seriously.

The bit I struggle with is how one moment there's an altercation and next moment someone making phone calls to the pub. If this was coerced I can't see how, and did Kipper really come out equipped with lots of 5p and 10p coins for 'phone boxes?

Regarding NB the interview with him dated 6.8.86 London Standard has him saying they stayed up chatting after she got home late in the evening. ( i posted this upthread a bit i think)

DV pg 92 has NB claiming he had no recollection of seeing her (which DV goes on to refer to article) . DV then says DL had a bee in her bonnet about the article because she thought it implied they went to bed together.

Its a little odd.


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Many thanks for posting this KC. So we now know contemporaneously and not solely from DL that SJL was at home. If they chatted about inconsequential stuff for "a couple of hours", they can't have started to do so much later than 10pm, given he was planning to leave for work by 7.45.

So when did this supposed call with AL happen? She clearly did not make it from the flat. If she made it from a call box to AL before getting home latest 10pm, he'd know from the pips and the background noise that she was in a call box. So he would remember who had called whom, contrary to what was later said.

Where's the room in the timeline for her to have been anywhere else than her parents' place? Is this impossible phone call the thing only the perp would know had not happened?

 

[kes1972]

The bit I struggle with is how one moment there's an altercation and next moment someone making phone calls to the pub. If this was coerced I can't see how, and did Kipper really come out equipped with lots of 5p and 10p coins for 'phone boxes?

Many thanks for posting this KC. So we now know contemporaneously and not solely from DL that SJL was at home. If they chatted about inconsequential stuff for "a couple of hours", they can't have started to do so much later than 10pm, given he was planning to leave for work by 7.45.

So when did this supposed call with AL happen? She clearly did not make it from the flat. If she made it from a call box to AL before getting home latest 10pm, he'd know from the pips and the background noise that she was in a call box. So he would remember who had called whom, contrary to what was later said.

Where's the room in the timeline for her to have been anywhere else than her parents' place? Is this impossible phone call the thing only the perp would know had not happened?

Agree, so you have al and nb the only 2 in this situation. No call one or the other is lying.

 

[WestLondoner]

BBM. Well you would imagine to save fees you would use Sturgis as you work there.

Estate agents' selling fees were - according to a mate of mine who was an EA in that area in 1990ish- 2% of sale price, typically divided 15% (=0.3% of sale price) to whoever got you the instruction, 15% to whoever introduced the buyer, the other 70% to the agency to fund itself (and staff's basic salaries, cars etc obviously).

I would guess that if a staff member sold their own property the 15% for having won the instruction would go to the employee - so in effect they'd get a 15% discount on the usual price.

 

[kes1972]

Off track but i wonder if james cartwright worked for one of the london estate agents at that time?

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

The bit I struggle with is how one moment there's an altercation and next moment someone making phone calls to the pub. If this was coerced I can't see how, and did Kipper really come out equipped with lots of 5p and 10p coins for 'phone boxes?

Many thanks for posting this KC. So we now know contemporaneously and not solely from DL that SJL was at home. If they chatted about inconsequential stuff for "a couple of hours", they can't have started to do so much later than 10pm, given he was planning to leave for work by 7.45.

So when did this supposed call with AL happen? She clearly did not make it from the flat. If she made it from a call box to AL before getting home latest 10pm, he'd know from the pips and the background noise that she was in a call box. So he would remember who had called whom, contrary to what was later said.

Where's the room in the timeline for her to have been anywhere else than her parents' place? Is this impossible phone call the thing only the perp would know had not happenned

Barley now saying SL went out after parents ‘ & lied about who she was with to AL. So after 9pm. It makes sense perhaps she said she was hanging later with SH & RB who took her home. Whoever it was they denied.

The phone call at 10:15pm where she apparently discussed the Tues expat party logistics I think poss fabricated. After all she’d been there at least 3 times already. Poss it was to deflect from the fact it was he she saw later as she definitely saw someone. Suggests she didn’t know him to well. Also we assume she’s safely at home because of call.

So much speaks of DL’s grave sensitivity about SL’s reputation & backtracking & covering up adding to confusion too.

Sunday night was a very, very hot potato IMO…Why?

Phone box v close proximity is interesting & argument might speak to force & coercion. JC had form for calls & this. You’re right of course on money for calls but people carried change/coins in pockets for phones more commonly then as calls often vital.

The 2pm ish calls are important I feel. Exactly what they point to am not sure but I think was definitely considered SL called in somehow.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

O

Agree, so you have al and nb the only 2 in this situation. No call one or the other is lying.

Or they were told to try to cover up for Sunday. After all SL lied to AL about who she saw after 9pm& DL had extreme sensitivity about boyfriends not known about. We know there was back & forth between AS, the police & DL on the ‘truth’ & things misreported to reputation preserve. Then we factor in any NDA.

AL apparently contradicting himself in doc points to above for me.

The apparent fact SL saw someone else after 9pm kept out of narrative at time.

 

[WestLondoner]

O

Or they were told to try to cover up for Sunday. After all SL lied to AL about who she saw after 9pm& DL had extreme sensitivity about boyfriends not known about. We know there was back & forth between AS, the police & DL on the ‘truth’ & things misreported to reputation preserve. Then we factor in any NDA.

AL apparently contradicting himself in doc points to above for me.

The apparent fact SL saw someone else after 9pm kept out of narrative at time.

But it looks like NB also colluded in the fib, because what he says indicates fairly clearly that from about that time she was home and that they went to bed (separately) at the usual sort of time for a weekday start (12ish I guess); and that there was no 10pm phone call.

The fact it's a fib could be why he conveniently couldn't remember with DV what happened the last night and morning he spent with Britain's most famous missing person. AL likewise couldn't remember the story. He said he and SJL never went to the PoW - which could be strictly true if she went there without him.

 

[kes1972]

O

Or they were told to try to cover up for Sunday. After all SL lied to AL about who she saw after 9pm& DL had extreme sensitivity about boyfriends not known about. We know there was back & forth between AS, the police & DL on the ‘truth’ & things misreported to reputation preserve. Then we factor in any NDA.

AL apparently contradicting himself in doc points to above for me.

The apparent fact SL saw someone else after 9pm kept out of narrative at time.

But sl seeing someone after 9 is just one persons narrative?

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

But it looks like NB also colluded in the fib, because what he says indicates fairly clearly that from about that time she was home and that they went to bed (separately) at the usual sort of time for a weekday start (12ish I guess); and that there was no 10pm phone call.

The fact it's a fib could be why he conveniently couldn't remember with DV what happened the last night and morning he spent with Britain's most famous missing person. AL likewise couldn't remember the story. He said he and SJL never went to the PoW - which could be strictly true if she went there without him.

Yes - DL back & forth poss. She panicked on the ‘late night chat’ & we know the police recollections varied. A muddy, confusing ‘consensus’ as a result (?) All to reputation preserve. Are NDAs still in place?

NB & AL embroidering a bit to reputation preserve a reason to fib & both may know Sunday night reality - especially AL. More probable than anything really nefarious from either IMO.

Also 40 years have passed & memories fade.

Sunday night a real sensitivity IMO & I think AL was sanctioned to speak as he did on doc for this reason. As AS said the police requested a factual timeline type change.

The problem is with (elaborate) fibs you can’t recall all. AL to DV “We never went to the POW” to DV. True I think.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

But it looks like NB also colluded in the fib, because what he says indicates fairly clearly that from about that time she was home and that they went to bed (separately) at the usual sort of time for a weekday start (12ish I guess); and that there was no 10pm phone call.

The fact it's a fib could be why he conveniently couldn't remember with DV what happened the last night and morning he spent with Britain's most famous missing person. AL likewise couldn't remember the story. He said he and SJL never went to the PoW - which could be strictly true if she went there without him.

Yes - DL back & forth poss. She panicked on the ‘late night chat’ & we know the police recollections varied. A muddy, confusing ‘consensus’ as a result (?) All to reputation preserve. Are NDAs still in place?

NB & AL embroidering a bit to reputation preserve a reason to fib & both may know Sunday night reality - especially AL. More probable than anything really nefarious from either IMO.

Also 40 years have passed & memories fade.

Sunday night a real sensitivity IMO & I think AL was sanctioned to speak as he did on doc for this reason. As AS said the police requested a factual timeline type change.

The problem is with (elaborate) fibs you can’t recall all. AL to DV “We never went to the POW” to DV. True I think.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

But sl seeing someone after 9 is just one persons narrative?

Barley said she saw someone in recent podcast & lied to AL about who it was - after her parents. We don’t have all facts here but for me odds fairly good wealthy expat if so. Hence all deflection. They had to paint her in a certain way to get public onside. It seems faintly ridiculous in 2026 if so.