UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #8

[kes1972]

valerio speciality is armed robbery, but it would not surprise me if certain people thought he was mr kipper, ha, ha.

Agree a lot of similarities and i could imagine lifting items a european speciality, the only difficult part is getting sl in another car and not being noticed i would have thought minimum 2 perps to make this possible to leave her car at sr, that is why i always end up back to work related, now knowing sturgis had keys to her flat it is possible over time the person with keys went through her personal at home diary and saw her lifestyle.

 

[kes1972]

i think HR did see SL outside with a mystery man, but because he made up details later in the investigation, no one thinks he is credible, but i believe his first statement regarding couple outside 37SR.

So did mg or whoever check the 6pm appointment? Seeing as he was so worried about the work situation how was her 6pm appointment covered/arranged and when and by whom?

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

i think HR did see SL outside with a mystery man, but because he made up details later in the investigation, no one thinks he is credible, but i believe his first statement regarding couple outside 37SR.

The odds are good he saw a man, or a couple. Given it seems others showing houses, or on road at time, weren’t ruled out, hard to confirm he saw SL. He didn’t see her face.

If AS is accurate, he can’t have mistaken MG & a ‘colleague’ for those he saw.

 

[kes1972]

Agree a lot of similarities and i could imagine lifting items a european speciality, the only difficult part is getting sl in another car and not being noticed i would have thought minimum 2 perps to make this possible to leave her car at sr, that is why i always end up back to work related, now knowing sturgis had keys to her flat it is possible over time the person with keys went through her personal at home diary and saw her lifestyle.

Maybe we could think of a possible scenario as to why viccei would want to abduct sl, she had zero to offer such an accomplished criminal, unless she had met up with him at his address and seen or read/overheard something she should not have, was he in sjw at that time as that is where the bmw was abandoned?

 

[kes1972]

Maybe we could think of a possible scenario as to why viccei would want to abduct sl, she had zero to offer such an accomplished criminal, unless she had met up with him at his address and seen or read/overheard something she should not have, was he in sjw at that time as that is where the bmw was abandoned?

And i wonder how far it was from his address?

 

[kes1972]

The odds are good he saw a man, or a couple. Given it seems others showing houses, or on road at time, weren’t ruled out, hard to confirm he saw SL. He didn’t see her face.

If AS is accurate, he can’t have mistaken MG & a ‘colleague’ for those he saw.

But was he was looking through net curtains?

 

[kes1972]

Maybe we could think of a possible scenario as to why viccei would want to abduct sl, she had zero to offer such an accomplished criminal, unless she had met up with him at his address and seen or read/overheard something she should not have, was he in sjw at that time as that is where the bmw was abandoned?

Come to think of it why would they want to leave sl fiesta on sr? Viccei i think would not have cared, so if we believe sl attended 37sr it is there she must have been abducted as if she drove to sr and got in his/hers car bw would not have seen sl in the fiesta. So the only possible is someone putting her car on sr and sl getting in another fiesta there are no other options

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

But was he was looking through net curtains?

We don’t know, it seems so from the reconstruction. He got a better look at a man.

P.135 DV - DV talks to a relative:

"Uncle Harry owned a nice car; he parked it on the street outside" "Parking was always a nightmare in Shorrolds Rd so he kept a eye on it" "That day Harry heard a bang, he assumed it was a car door banging. He looked outside and saw a man and a woman on the pavement. He could describe the man quite well. But he couldn't describe the woman at all".

"He never identified the woman as Suzy to the police? I asked, regaining my compusure. Is that what you're saying?"

"He never said he saw her, no; he just told them he saw a woman there with a man".

DV continues that at the "first press conference" "There was talk of a blonde woman but zero confirmation it was Suzy".

DV makes point Carter talks about the 'fair' woman seen and her blondness quite a lot. No men were really going to ever identify SL as an obvious 'blonde' outside Shorrods if that last photo is remotelly correct. I think DV is implying it was another couple and another woman outsdie.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

Maybe we could think of a possible scenario as to why viccei would want to abduct sl, she had zero to offer such an accomplished criminal, unless she had met up with him at his address and seen or read/overheard something she should not have, was he in sjw at that time as that is where the bmw was abandoned?

I don't think there's much to link VV and I don't think he is a very serious contender for 'Kipper". IMO he does look more like the photofit than any we've seen that said. But that just makes the point in isolation they are not paritcularly good evidence.

He was in the Chelsea and Fulham area at the right time and he describes an encoutner with a woman very like SL (classy, profressional) at an Italian restaurant on the Fulham Rd (and another woman friend) very shortly before she went missing. I will see if I can find the excerpt from his biography. That struck me. VV will have been very consipcuous but might fit the very handsome and smartly dressed descriptions, or 'criminal' descriptions of some.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

VV Bio - Too Fast Too Live:

This is a bit out of context and not all fits, he mentions the girl is pale skinned like a red head but he's fitting some of the profile perhpas. Again I don't think he's a serious contender but I'd be definitely ruling him out if on the investigation.

Would he do any kind of flat buying deal with 'strings attached'? - yes, he would...



I am minded of 'Sarah's call' to the POW 'Keep her talking until I can get there".

1986

After a couple of months I moved to another flat. It was in a smart area of Chelsea. I found out about the flat through an Italian friend of mine, in fact, we'd been looking for a place to share. He would be spending only a few weeks in England, but nevertheless wanted a nice base.

[They rent for a short time via 'Susan' a friend and sign a contract and his friend, Sandro, brings along a friend].

I was ok about the set up but a little pissed off that Sandro was brining an English girl who didn't speak Italian. He describes her as probably up for sex [possibly his ego talking]. He tries to buy 'good cocaine'.

Re: this 'English girl'. ..

"I had met her on a couple of previous occasions: Once when I was with an Italian girlfriend from Ascoli, she asked if I was already sleeping with Susan. I said I wished I was, adding as far as I was concerned I wouldn't mind having sex with her as well"

"I decided perhaps she was not as dumb as I first thought, and giving her a more attentive look I thought she wasn't bad at all"

This girl says "you are an arrogant pig and a chauvinistic bastard. F off!" "I've seen you on at least 3 occaisons and each time you were with a different girl"

" I started laughing and and she laughed too, puching me lightly on the shoulder"

"There's the phone for a cab" (VV) but if you don't mind sleeping on the sofa, you can stay here. Besides from next week this will be your flat". [This is to Susan not the other girl, but it's not terriblly clear]

Valerio feels he has to tell the girls a lot of BS about himself as "What else could I do, I am a born predator: one of the most successful bank robbers, a man who had made sex and self sufficiency his life goals" " So I tell this dumb girl I am a motor sport reporter, studying English and living on his family's money"

"Obviously I was using a phoney name- Pierlugi or something - but this was an entirely new identity"

"The Fulham Road was right around the corner from where we were staying"

 

[lee sumner]

The odds are good he saw a man, or a couple. Given it seems others showing houses, or on road at time, weren’t ruled out, hard to confirm he saw SL. He didn’t see her face.

If AS is accurate, he can’t have mistaken MG & a ‘colleague’ for those he saw.

HR seen a couple outside 37SR, and this lines up with SL appointment in her diary. 37 shorrolds, O/S, which means she is meeting the client outside the property. it had to have been SL and mr kipper.

 

[lee sumner]

So did mg or whoever check the 6pm appointment? Seeing as he was so worried about the work situation how was her 6pm appointment covered/arranged and when and by whom?

the 6PM appointment SL had was with joanna, to view, 43 waldermar rd, after this viewing SL was finished for the day and was planning on picking up her lost items on the way home.

 

[Rookie D]

Reposting as visual on the BMW thought to be involved by police early on. Navy blue & poss a smaller model but in this vein.

That looks fairly similar to the one parked outside Sturgis on the 4th August 1986... maybe it wasn't a convertible in that picture?

 

[lee sumner]

the 6PM appointment SL had was with joanna, to view, 43 waldermar rd, after this viewing SL was finished for the day and was planning on picking up her lost items on the way home.

MG went to the 6PM appointment hoping SL would show up, but she never did.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

We don’t know, it seems so from the reconstruction. He got a better look at a man.

P.135 DV - DV talks to a relative:

"Uncle Harry owned a nice car; he parked it on the street outside" "Parking was always a nightmare in Shorrolds Rd so he kept a eye on it" "That day Harry heard a bang, he assumed it was a car door banging. He looked outside and saw a man and a woman on the pavement. He could describe the man quite well. But he couldn't describe the woman at all".

"He never identified the woman as Suzy to the police? I asked, regaining my compusure. Is that what you're saying?"

"He never said he saw her, no; he just told them he saw a woman there with a man".

DV continues that at the "first press conference" "There was talk of a blonde woman but zero confirmation it was Suzy".

DV makes point Carter talks about the 'fair' woman seen and her blondness quite a lot. No men were really going to ever identify SL as an obvious 'blonde' outside Shorrods if that last photo is remotelly correct. I think DV is implying it was another couple and another woman outsdie.

@lee sumner the odds are good that it was SL, surely, absolutely, but no one asked who else was in the road at lunchtime, showing properties or otherwise, (as far as I know) the emphasis was on finding witnesses. The feeling was this woman was an obvious blonde, very fair.

DV is surprised no one could and did identify this woman, seen outside or close by, as SL, including HR.

 

[kes1972]

VV Bio - Too Fast Too Live:

This is a bit out of context and not all fits, he mentions the girl is pale skinned like a red head but he's fitting some of the profile perhpas. Again I don't think he's a serious contender but I'd be definitely ruling him out if on the investigation.

Would he do any kind of flat buying deal with 'strings attached'? - yes, he would...



I am mined of 'Sarah's call' to the POW 'Keep her talking until I can get there".

1986

After a couple of months I moved to another flat. It was in a smart area of Chelsea. I found out about the flat through an Italian friend of mine, in fact, we'd been looking for a place to share. He would be spending only a few weeks in England, but nevertheless wanted a nice base.

[They rent for a short time via 'Susan' a friend and sign a contract and his friend, Sandro, brings along a friend].

I was ok about the set up but a little pissed off that Sandro was brining an English girl who didn't speak Italian. He describes her as probably up for sex [possibly his ego talking]. He tries to buy 'good cocaine'.

Re: this 'English girl'. ..

"I had met her on a couple of previous occasions: Once when I was with an Italian girlfriend from Ascoli, she asked if I was already sleeping with Susan. I said I wished I was, adding as far as I was concerned I wouldn't mind having sex with her as well"

"I decided perhaps she was not as dumb as I first thought, and giving her a more attentive look I thought she wasn't bad at all"

This girl says "you are an arrogant pig and a chauvinistic bastard. F off!" "I've seen you on at least 3 occaisons and each time you were with a different girl"

" I started laughing and and she laughed too, puching me lightly on the shoulder"

"There's the phone for a cab" (VV) but if you don't mind sleeping on the sofa, you can stay here. Besides from next week this will be your flat". [This is to Susan not the other girl, but it's not terriblly clear]

Valerio feels he has to tell the girls a lot of BS about himself as "What else could I do, I am a born predator: one of the most successful bank robbers, a man who had made sex and self sufficiency his life goals" " So I tell this dumb girl I am a motor sport reporter, studying English and living on his family's money"

"Obviously I was using a phoney name- Pierlugi or something - but this was an entirely new identity"

"The Fulham Road was right around the corner from where we were staying"

There is a lot of similarities, i wonder if any of sl family- sisters brother , work colleagues would recognise the words “susan” used as similar to what sl may have used. The motor sport situation also rings s bell as didn’t sl attend some kind of motor sport event in yge months prior to her disappearance? Maybe it was the other girlfriend who called the pow asking for susan?

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

There is a lot of similarities, i wonder if any of sl family- sisters brother , work colleagues would recognise the words “susan” used as similar to what sl may have used. The motor sport situation also rings s bell as didn’t sl attend some kind of motor sport event in yge months prior to her disappearance? Maybe it was the other girlfriend who called the pow asking for susan?

It was a neighbour in Disraeli who referenced SL as ‘Susan’.

The ‘Susan’ VV referencing is a Swedish model I think. He is talking to the friend.

It was ‘Sarah’ calling the pub. VV poss not using the women’s real names.

Is there an Italian alias that sounds like ‘Kipper’?

Motor sports - yes a ‘scary’ date, about May.

 

[lee sumner]

@lee sumner the odds are good that it was SL, surely, absolutely, but no one asked who else was in the road at lunchtime, showing properties or otherwise, (as far as I know) the emphasis was on finding witnesses. The feeling was this woman was an obvious blonde, very fair.

DV is surprised no one could and did identify this woman, seen outside or close by, as SL, including HR.

HR did not know SL, so he could hardly say it was her.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

HR did not know SL, so he could hardly say it was her.

True but DV’s point a whole lot of assumption on top of assumption going on. He wasn’t shown a photo early on for any comparison. Also he saw an obvious blonde/fair woman.

 

[Officer Dibble]

I am surprised no one rang in on Valerio Viccei - even the eyebrows match…Perhaps they did.

Isnt that photo the father of VV?