UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #8

[GTB72]

The senior investigating officer also gets the date of the abduction wrong!

He says; "Monday 29th"...


SL really didn't stand a chance when the man leading the investigation into her disappearance, couldn't even get the date right.

Indeed. A whole litany of things conspired to ensure that the case wouldn't be solved.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

BBM. Who do you think DL and NB are referring to since this is pre JC?

Apologies for putting you on the spot but you and WL both seem to have researched this case very thoroughly and have a lot of knowledge re SJL.upthre

Re: NB upthread I meant nota bene.

I don’t want to speculate too much but I am curious about who was once close to investigation etc & then apparently, wasn’t.

It’s interesting DL had her own early theory re: Lux flats in Stevenage, enough to organise own search too. Interestingly, I think she flagged a drug dealer there as well as a motley crew of colourful characters.

For DL there were always (?) what she called “suspects”. As AS put it “men who for one reason or another were close to SL, & who had been unable to give entirely satisfactory accounts of their movements on the day she went missing”. P.3.

DL did seem to have some unusual theories at some stages (but who can blame the poor woman when the investigation seemed to have stalled) but she seemed to be quite specific here in December 1986.

 

[GTB72]

Re: NB upthread I meant nota bene.

I don’t want to speculate too much but I am curious about who was once close to investigation etc & then apparently, wasn’t.

DL did seem to have some unusual theories at some stages (but who can blame the poor woman when the investigation seemed to have stalled) but she seemed to be quite specific here in December 1986.

My bad. I saw the initials and thought Nick Bryant. Never took Latin at school, just French and German.

I wish you would speculate a wee bit more about the person close to the investigation though.

No problem if you don't though.

 

[Rookie D]

Interesting in the first video the police talk of a lack of response from the public, could this be the very reason no one saw anything of note, it was a quiet middle of the day, people working, very few pedestrians.

Bernard O'Mahoney describes the phenomenon of ghost sightings in a YouTube video about the murder of the Essex Boys.

Could any of this have any relevance to the sighting of Suzy, re BW, and WJ in relation to the car?

Excellent post.

I think it is very possible and likely that there were some "ghost sightings" in relation to the lead up to the disappearance of SL.

I guess it then comes down to which sightings could be deemed as statistically more likely to be correct.

If we stirp everything back to its basics, all we know for sure is that Suzy left her office, and then less than 10 hours later, her company vehicle was found parked in Stevenage Road.

Outside of that, anything and everything could be treated as a ghost sighting in the first instance.

We have 3 different male witnesses independently seeing SL outside 37SR within a 10 minute time frame, that coincides with the timing of the viewing in her diary to meet Mr Kipper outside the same address.
We have WJ seeing a white car at 12.45pm and then again at 3.30pm, coincidentally parked in the same spot where it was later found by police.
We have a local Taxi cab driver who also saw the car parked in the same spot just before 2pm.
We then have a woman from 139 Stevenage Road who around "lunchtime" sees a woman in a hat, walking with a man whose appearance was similar to Mr Kipper. A similar hat is then found in SL's car.
We then have the same witness saying she saw the same woman again, but this time the woman in the hat was standing in the front garden of the adjacent street.
We then have an unidentified bearded man telling a Taxi driver that he's just witnessed a fierce argument between a man and a woman; a location within close proximity to where SL's car is later found parked up.
We also have a man who is nearly driven into by a white car that he sees driving erratically toward him, so much so that he has to take evasive action to avoid being hit. He notices the 2 occupants of the car arguing intensely as they speed past him.
We then have the only witness who actually knew SL; a woman who sees SL driving up Fulham Palace Road, "between the cemetery and the estate agent" and make an attempt to get her attention by waving to her. The witness states that SL doesn't notice her because SL has her head turned and is talking to the male passenger sitting next to her.
We then have a witness who owns the garage in Stevenage Road, who notices a white car parked up in the same spot; slightly overhanging across his driveway; in the same spot where it was seen by WJ at 2 different times, and also the local Taxi Driver just before 2pm.
We then have a jogger who witnesses a dramatic scene as he leaves the park on Stevenage Road; a woman laughing or screaming at a man as they both sit in the front of a black BMW; a LHD BMW, which then speeds off.
We also have another witness who was certain that he saw JC wheeling a shopping trolley containing a suitcase, which is then dumped into the water.
We also now have another witness in the form of a man who witnessed a man in a suit get out of a white car which pulled up opposite, a car that was seemingly identical to SL's white Fiesta; partially because it contained a distinctive hat which was also found in the back window of SL's Fiesta in Stevenage Road.

So, which of theses would we consider "ghost sightings?"


Interesting to note that witnesses who simply claim to have seen something, are statistically less likely to have been correct than those who actually knew and/or spoke to the victim directly.

On that basis, it would appear that the most reliable witness would have been BW, because she knew SL AND she attempted specifically to get her attention by waving to SL as she cycled toward SL's car travelling in the opposite direction.


If BW was indeed the most important sighting, then what does it tell us about her abductor and eventual demise?

Well, it tells us that the abductor was more interested in the process of abducting her, and not just focused on the kill as it were.

This is evidenced by the fact that Mr Kipper had perfect ample opportunity to kill SL; by attacking her in 37SR.

But he doesn't

Why?

Because he likely wants to play the game, and make SL believe no harm will come to her.

This type of killer resembles to some extent the M.O of JC, who enjoyed the process of playing with his captured prey, before then choosing to strike with brutal force and aggression.

Lots to ponder.

 

[GTB72]

Excellent post.

I think it is very possible and likely that there were some "ghost sightings" in relation to the lead up to the disappearance of SL.

I guess it then comes down to which sightings could be deemed as statistically more likely to be correct.

If we stirp everything back to its basics, all we know for sure is that Suzy left her office, and then less than 10 hours later, her company vehicle was found parked in Stevenage Road.

Outside of that, anything and everything could be treated as a ghost sighting in the first instance.

We have 3 different male witnesses independently seeing SL outside 37SR within a 10 minute time frame, that coincides with the timing of the viewing in her diary to meet Mr Kipper outside the same address.
We have WJ seeing a white car at 12.45pm and then again at 3.30pm, coincidentally parked in the same spot where it was later found by police.
We have a local Taxi cab driver who also saw the car parked in the same spot just before 2pm.
We then have a woman from 139 Stevenage Road who around "lunchtime" sees a woman in a hat, walking with a man whose appearance was similar to Mr Kipper. A similar hat is then found in SL's car.
We then have the same witness saying she saw the same woman again, but this time the woman in the hat was standing in the front garden of the adjacent street.
We then have an unidentified bearded man telling a Taxi driver that he's just witnessed a fierce argument between a man and a woman; a location within close proximity to where SL's car is later found parked up.
We also have a man who is nearly driven into by a white car that he sees driving erratically toward him, so much so that he has to take evasive action to avoid being hit. He notices the 2 occupants of the car arguing intensely as they speed past him.
We then have the only witness who actually knew SL; a woman who sees SL driving up Fulham Palace Road, "between the cemetery and the estate agent" and make an attempt to get her attention by waving to her. The witness states that SL doesn't notice her because SL has her head turned and is talking to the male passenger sitting next to her.
We then have a witness who owns the garage in Stevenage Road, who notices a white car parked up in the same spot; slightly overhanging across his driveway; in the same spot where it was seen by WJ at 2 different times, and also the local Taxi Driver just before 2pm.
We then have a jogger who witnesses a dramatic scene as he leaves the park on Stevenage Road; a woman laughing or screaming at a man as they both sit in the front of a black BMW; a LHD BMW, which then speeds off.
We also have another witness who was certain that he saw JC wheeling a shopping trolley containing a suitcase, which is then dumped into the water.
We also now have another witness in the form of a man who witnessed a man in a suit get out of a white car which pulled up opposite, a car that was seemingly identical to SL's white Fiesta; partially because it contained a distinctive hat which was also found in the back window of SL's Fiesta in Stevenage Road.

So, which of theses would we consider "ghost sightings?"


Interesting to note that witnesses who simply claim to have seen something, are statistically less likely to have been correct than those who actually knew and/or spoke to the victim directly.

On that basis, it would appear that the most reliable witness would have been BW, because she knew SL ANSD she attempted specifically to get her attention by waving to SL as she cycled toward SL's car travelling in the opposite direction.


If BW was indeed the most important sighting, then what does it tell us about her abductor and eventual demise?

Well, it tells us that the abductor was more interested in the process of abducting her, and not just focused on the kill as it were.

This is evidenced by the fact that Mr Kipper had perfect ample opportunity to kill SL; by attacking her in 37SR.

But he doesn't

Why?

Because he likely wants to play the game, and make SL believe no harm will come to her.

This type of killer resembles to some extent the M.O of JC, who enjoyed the process of playing with his captured prey, before then choosing to strike with brutal force and aggression.

Lots to ponder.

Indeed. Not a lack of information but too much. Not able to sort the wood from the trees.

Re the BW sighting, and the original Crimewatch reconstruction I always thought it was telling that BW stated she waved to Suzy yet Suzy never waved back. Also that she only got a side view of her as she was talking to her passenger.

I don't know about anyone else but several times in my life I have approached someone I thought I knew on the basis of a side view that was a spitting image of the person only to find when I called their name they didn't turn towards me and when I then approached them found it wasn't the person I knew.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

Excellent post.

I think it is very possible and likely that there were some "ghost sightings" in relation to the lead up to the disappearance of SL.

I guess it then comes down to which sightings could be deemed as statistically more likely to be correct.

If we stirp everything back to its basics, all we know for sure is that Suzy left her office, and then less than 10 hours later, her company vehicle was found parked in Stevenage Road.

Outside of that, anything and everything could be treated as a ghost sighting in the first instance.

We have 3 different male witnesses independently seeing SL outside 37SR within a 10 minute time frame, that coincides with the timing of the viewing in her diary to meet Mr Kipper outside the same address.
We have WJ seeing a white car at 12.45pm and then again at 3.30pm, coincidentally parked in the same spot where it was later found by police.
We have a local Taxi cab driver who also saw the car parked in the same spot just before 2pm.
We then have a woman from 139 Stevenage Road who around "lunchtime" sees a woman in a hat, walking with a man whose appearance was similar to Mr Kipper. A similar hat is then found in SL's car.
We then have the same witness saying she saw the same woman again, but this time the woman in the hat was standing in the front garden of the adjacent street.
We then have an unidentified bearded man telling a Taxi driver that he's just witnessed a fierce argument between a man and a woman; a location within close proximity to where SL's car is later found parked up.
We also have a man who is nearly driven into by a white car that he sees driving erratically toward him, so much so that he has to take evasive action to avoid being hit. He notices the 2 occupants of the car arguing intensely as they speed past him.
We then have the only witness who actually knew SL; a woman who sees SL driving up Fulham Palace Road, "between the cemetery and the estate agent" and make an attempt to get her attention by waving to her. The witness states that SL doesn't notice her because SL has her head turned and is talking to the male passenger sitting next to her.
We then have a witness who owns the garage in Stevenage Road, who notices a white car parked up in the same spot; slightly overhanging across his driveway; in the same spot where it was seen by WJ at 2 different times, and also the local Taxi Driver just before 2pm.
We then have a jogger who witnesses a dramatic scene as he leaves the park on Stevenage Road; a woman laughing or screaming at a man as they both sit in the front of a black BMW; a LHD BMW, which then speeds off.
We also have another witness who was certain that he saw JC wheeling a shopping trolley containing a suitcase, which is then dumped into the water.
We also now have another witness in the form of a man who witnessed a man in a suit get out of a white car which pulled up opposite, a car that was seemingly identical to SL's white Fiesta; partially because it contained a distinctive hat which was also found in the back window of SL's Fiesta in Stevenage Road.

So, which of theses would we consider "ghost sightings?"


Interesting to note that witnesses who simply claim to have seen something, are statistically less likely to have been correct than those who actually knew and/or spoke to the victim directly.

On that basis, it would appear that the most reliable witness would have been BW, because she knew SL AND she attempted specifically to get her attention by waving to SL as she cycled toward SL's car travelling in the opposite direction.


If BW was indeed the most important sighting, then what does it tell us about her abductor and eventual demise?

Well, it tells us that the abductor was more interested in the process of abducting her, and not just focused on the kill as it were.

This is evidenced by the fact that Mr Kipper had perfect ample opportunity to kill SL; by attacking her in 37SR.

But he doesn't

Why?

Because he likely wants to play the game, and make SL believe no harm will come to her.

This type of killer resembles to some extent the M.O of JC, who enjoyed the process of playing with his captured prey, before then choosing to strike with brutal force and aggression.

Lots to ponder.

On ‘woman wearing a hat witness, seeing woman like SL in Langthorne garden, possibly attending a wedding’ etc. This all to light only in 2000. Is this someone other than Stevenage resident, MJ?

Anything from 2000 we have to take with a bit more of a sceptical pinch of salt, IMO. The BMW witness talks of a hot, sunny day. It wasn’t. Not really a day for a sunhat then either unless SL a habitual wearer.

IF indeed BMW witness did report to pop up police station at time in Stevenage Road more plausible. But as a previous poster said all the screeching of brakes & horn sounding very conspicuous (?)

On that note we do have those who apparently reported things at time & they were ‘lost’ or unrecorded at time:

1. @Clairybums father
2. Canal witness
3. BMW witness
4. KH’s ‘lost’ note from ‘Sarah’ for SL

If MJ extra detail witnesd, none of this obvious or flagged by her in 1986 (AS). She did say something in Crimewatch about a hat being ‘posh’ (seen in car or on SL?) but guessing no hat wearing specifics & all extra, helpful detail in her early statement (?)

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

Indeed. Not a lack of information but too much. Not able to sort the wood from the trees.

Re the BW sighting, and the original Crimewatch reconstruction I always thought it was telling that BW stated she waved to Suzy yet Suzy never waved back. Also that she only got a side view of her as she was talking to her passenger.

I don't know about anyone else but several times in my life I have approached someone I thought I knew on the basis of a side view that was a spitting image of the person only to find when I called their name they didn't turn towards me and when I then approached them found it wasn't the person I knew.

Yes, I know what you mean on BW, I considered that too, but she remained totally certain & is not the fanciful type.

 

[GTB72]

Yes, I know what you mean on BW, I considered that too, but she remained totally certain & is not the fanciful type.

Indeed. She has always stuck to her guns on this. I agree wholeheartedly with you re the 2000 sightings.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

@Rookie D DV thinks (perhaps) ND (not Nick D) was a plant re: witness. He was a bar cellarman & Irish I think & DV flags that there was one of these at POW…It feels a bit far fetched if so.

It’s interesting that the other ND (deceased) did seem to have criminal convictions if that makes any odds.

HR clearly noticed a couple but did change story & said banging door he heard could have belonged to other neighbour in end (AS).

 

[rvlvr]

@Konstantin Here we have DL, a few months later saying she knew who killed her daughter & where & why. She couldn’t say who as ‘libellous’. “There are people who stand to gain, I have my theory”

In answer to “did she have any worries?” (SL):

“She had lost her diary on Friday night and had been bothered about selling her flat as people kept letting her down”

Note the ‘strings attached’ deal is studiously avoided here, again. It almost certainly had some part to play in SL going missing & police, as we know, were angry not to be immediately informed.

Friday night for eve diary lost does feel like a white lie from all evidence we have, and SL presumably needed to sell her flat to do the deal hence her worries here (?)

When you factor in her uncle’s comments too about someone pressurising her too…

DL was understandably trying to protect SL & at first I think everyone thought her private life had nothing to do with her disappearance. Problem was, it almost certainly did.

Really interesting article, thanks for sharing. Diana seems to investigate this case from a sensible POV - who might want Suzy dead, who stood to gain, was the appointment legitimate? Very understandable approach and it seems she had some suspicions along these lines.

But then as the writer correctly notes, the SL Trust was largely established on the assumption that Suzy went to a house viewing and was abducted by a stranger. Which is of course a rather more run of the mill crime.

 

[lee sumner]

Could it be that one of the details AS was asked to omit from the final draft was him naming JC as the killer/suspect lest it prejudiced a future prosecution?

He had full access to the Police files and the co-operation of the family at least initially and suggested a link to Cannan in the 1990 article.

Is it that far fetched to suggest he knew/suspected JC in the throes of writing the book?

DL said SL was upset she had not found a buyer for her flat straight away. lamplugh put the flat up for sale 6MTS earlier, but sometimes a property can take time to sell. what is interesting is that DI johnstone asked DL and PL was there anything suzy was concerned about in the weeks/months before she disappeared, to which they told him no she had no major worries, well the sale taking longer than she thought was making her unhappy, so why did they not mention this to DI johnstone when he interviewed them at length the night SL went missing.

 

[lee sumner]

Was SL that private a person she could lead two lives? Outwardly she seemed socially mobile, away for weekends, tennis club,wind surfing, was there a dark side that disappeared with her say in the form of another diary which would point to her killer?

lamplugh was a mystery herself leading 2 lives. they say we all live 3, a public side, private side and a secret side.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

DL said SL was upset she had not found a buyer for her flat straight away. lamplugh put the flat up for sale 6MTS earlier, but sometimes a property can take time to sell. what is interesting is that DI johnstone asked DL and PL was there anything suzy was concerned about in the weeks/months before she disappeared, to which they told him no she had no major worries, well the sale taking longer than she thought was making her unhappy, so why did they not mention this to DI johnstone when he interviewed them at length the night SL went missing.

We don’t have all the facts but the evidence points to SL’s parents keeping back information from the police, perhaps, re: SL, that they thought initially irrelevant to the investigation. They hoped she could be found with the minimum of fuss.

For me the flat worries point to a need for money/cash sooner rather than later. Especially when you look at the evidence she was involved in a deal with ‘strings’ & being pressurised.

 

[RichardKimble]

I'm not suggesting there was a direct link.
IMO, JC killed SJL.

There has to be, at some stage they came together either by accident or design, yet there's no proof they did.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

There has to be, at some stage they came together either by accident or design, yet there's no proof they did.

Have the police looked again at contact book with Jessop, Bryant & Townsend & other JC later aliases in mind (?) One of these contacts might have been a person of interest, a few had very spurious reasons for knowing her, but how to prove anything? It seems the police struggled to pin alibis down even for some closer contacts.

 

[Officer Dibble]

what about the initials and names i have already sent to you.

Sorry I thought I thanked you for those.

 

[Officer Dibble]

I have lost track with this thread. Anyone care to put their theories forward?

There have been recent changes as the wonderful @Clairybums came in to report a sighting

 

[Rookie D]

On ‘woman wearing a hat witness, seeing woman like SL in Langthorne garden, possibly attending a wedding’ etc. This all to light only in 2000. Is this someone other than Stevenage resident, MJ?

Anything from 2000 we have to take with a bit more of a sceptical pinch of salt, IMO. The BMW witness talks of a hot, sunny day. It wasn’t. Not really a day for a sunhat then either unless SL a habitual wearer.

IF indeed BMW witness did report to pop up police station at time in Stevenage Road more plausible. But as a previous poster said all the screeching of brakes & horn sounding very conspicuous (?)

On that note we do have those who apparently reported things at time & they were ‘lost’ or unrecorded at time:

1. @Clairybums father
2. Canal witness
3. BMW witness
4. KH’s ‘lost’ note from ‘Sarah’ for SL

If MJ extra detail witnesd, none of this obvious or flagged by her in 1986 (AS). She did say something in Crimewatch about a hat being ‘posh’ (seen in car or on SL?) but guessing no hat wearing specifics & all extra, helpful detail in her early statement (?)

Yes, just to confirm that the witness who claimed to have seen SL walking with a suited man north up Stevenage Road, and then again standing in a front garden of Langthorne Street (number 100) was definitely NOT WJ from 123 Stevenage Road.

This witness lived further north along Stevenage Road

She had just stepped out of Millshott Close to turn right and head south along Stevenage Road, when she was alleged to have witnessed SL and Mr Kipper on the opposite side of the road, walking "away from" the football ground (Fulham FC) as they headed north up Stevenage Road.
If this is indeed correct, then the witness must have just missed seeing SL and Mr Kipper either walk past the Fiesta, get out of the Fiesta, and/or SL take her hat out of the Fiesta.
That's assuming that the Fiesta was parked there at this time of course.

Crucially, this witness stated that this sighting occurred around "lunchtime."

In that context, "lunchtime" could be regarded as any time between 11.30am - 2.30pm

In other words, this sighting almost certainly occurred BEFORE BW's sighting of SL on the Fulham Palace Road.

But let's also note that the same witness saw SL AGAIN when she returned home. The witness walked north up Stevenage Road, and as she got to the corner of Millshott close, she looked to her right and saw THE SAME WOMAN standing in the front garden of Langthorne Street (100 Langthorne Street)

The witness says this 2ND sighting occurred "later."


This means that at least 15 minutes must have passed between the witness first seeing SL and Mr Kipper walking north up Stevenage Road, and then again "later" when she saw SL again in Langthorne Street.

For someone to use the phrase of seeing someone "later," I would suggest that a minimum of 15 minutes must have past between sightings, probably longer.

Coincidentally, when the witness saw SL and Mr Kipper the first time, they were both walking TOWARD Langthorne Street.

One could surmise that SL was walking toward Langthorne Street to show Mr Kipper another property.
Except, this wouldn't work if Suzy only had the keys for Shorrolds Road.

It therefore seems possible IMO, that Suzy was the client and was being shown around properties in and around Stevenage Road and Langthorne Street; meaning that Mr Kipper himself...was another estate agent.

SL then chooses to wear a hat so that she isn't spotted by WJ, because she knows that her boss MG is dealing with the sale of 123 Stevenage Road.

There's an interesting article (that I need to find again) in which WJ makes a somewhat throwaway comment, eluding to the idea that she possibly recognized the car parked opposite her house; thus this being the reason why she recalled it being parked there. In the article, she relays her confusion as to why nobody from the estate agents came over to see her that day. But seeing as she wasn't expecting MG that day, then it leaves the tantalising possibility that WJ recognised the Fiesta as having belonged to Sturgis.

And if MG was the EA dealing with her property, then one could suggest that there's a high probability that MG also used the white Fiesta at times. That in itself would mean his DNA and fingerprints would be expected to be found inside the vehicle.

Fascinating stuff indeed

 

[kes1972]

Yellow Fiesta...

Wednesday 30th July 1986...
During the search of Fulham cemetery 2 days after the disappearance of SL, a yellow Fiesta can be seen parked up outside an outbuilding within the cemetery grounds.

Wednesday 20th August 1986...
During an interview with Barbara Whitfield in which she discusses her sighting, the production crew film outside Fulham Cemetery. A yellow Fiesta can be seen parked up outside the entrance to the cemetery, facing south towards Putney.

August/September 1986...
A Yellow Fiesta can be seen parked up outside Sturgis, directly outside the large window facing SL's desk.


However, it would appear that these are 3 DIFFERENT Yellow Fiestas.

Unless of course, some alterations had been made after 30th July 1986.


Could there be a link to someone at the cemetery?


Note that Barbara Whitfield confirms on tape that she saw Suzy "between the cemetery and the estate agent, she drove past me."
(This would mean that this BW saw SL, SOUTH of the Cemetery)

View attachment 653916


On that basis, it would seem more likely that WJ wasn't lying, but instead genuinely believed that she had seen the WHITE Fiesta at 12.45pm.

But the coincidences surrounding these White and Yellow Fiestas makes it seem that WJ wasn't wrong in her timings, but rather, was wrong about the car that she saw.


Curious coincidences indeed

I wonder if eilliam lambert owned a yellow fiesta?

 

[kes1972]

Yes, just to confirm that the witness who claimed to have seen SL walking with a suited man north up Stevenage Road, and then again standing in a front garden of Langthorne Street (number 100) was definitely NOT WJ from 123 Stevenage Road.

This witness lived further north along Stevenage Road

She had just stepped out of Millshott Close to turn right and head south along Stevenage Road, when she was alleged to have witnessed SL and Mr Kipper on the opposite side of the road, walking "away from" the football ground (Fulham FC) as they headed north up Stevenage Road.
If this is indeed correct, then the witness must have just missed seeing SL and Mr Kipper either walk past the Fiesta, get out of the Fiesta, and/or SL take her hat out of the Fiesta.
That's assuming that the Fiesta was parked there at this time of course.

Crucially, this witness stated that this sighting occurred around "lunchtime."

In that context, "lunchtime" could be regarded as any time between 11.30am - 2.30pm

In other words, this sighting almost certainly occurred BEFORE BW's sighting of SL on the Fulham Palace Road.

But let's also note that the same witness saw SL AGAIN when she returned home. The witness walked north up Stevenage Road, and as she got to the corner of Millshott close, she looked to her right and saw THE SAME WOMAN standing in the front garden of Langthorne Street (100 Langthorne Street)

The witness says this 2ND sighting occurred "later."


This means that at least 15 minutes must have passed between the witness first seeing SL and Mr Kipper walking north up Stevenage Road, and then again "later" when she saw SL again in Langthorne Street.

For someone to use the phrase of seeing someone "later," I would suggest that a minimum of 15 minutes must have past between sightings, probably longer.

Coincidentally, when the witness saw SL and Mr Kipper the first time, they were both walking TOWARD Langthorne Street.

One could surmise that SL was walking toward Langthorne Street to show Mr Kipper another property.
Except, this wouldn't work if Suzy only had the keys for Shorrolds Road.

It therefore seems possible IMO, that Suzy was the client and was being shown around properties in and around Stevenage Road and Langthorne Street; meaning that Mr Kipper himself...was another estate agent.

SL then chooses to wear a hat so that she isn't spotted by WJ, because she knows that her boss MG is dealing with the sale of 123 Stevenage Road.

There's an interesting article (that I need to find again) in which WJ makes a somewhat throwaway comment, eluding to the idea that she possibly recognized the car parked opposite her house; thus this being the reason why she recalled it being parked there. In the article, she relays her confusion as to why nobody from the estate agents came over to see her that day. But seeing as she wasn't expecting MG that day, then it leaves the tantalising possibility that WJ recognised the Fiesta as having belonged to Sturgis.

And if MG was the EA dealing with her property, then one could suggest that there's a high probability that MG also used the white Fiesta at times. That in itself would mean his DNA and fingerprints would be expected to be found inside the vehicle.

Fascinating stuff indeed

Well i can believe all of that, i would hate to think what would happen if mg and the big boss happened to see sl at langthorne.