UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 July 1986 #8

[lee sumner]

Do we know to which cinema WJ and her children went to watch the film?

pinnochio up here where i live also means someone who tell a lot of lies. was WJ a proper pinnochio telling porkies.

 

[lee sumner]

There were a few options...

25th July 1986...

View attachment 654599

Hammersmith or Kensington would seem the most likely.

But there's also Ealing, Harrow, Notting Hill, and Richmond.

Note that the large 5 screen cinema on the Fulham Road, wasn't showing Pinocchio!

Also note that Brentford Cinema is listed after Richmond Odeon, but they weren't showing Pinocchio either, so I edited the post to highlight ALL the local cinemas who were actually showing the movie.

good work. the people on this forum impress me with there research.

 

[lee sumner]

A. Question, who did wj go to the bank with? I am sure i read she was with a friend.

ann mahon who owned the garage where SL was overlapping.

 

[lee sumner]

ann mahon who owned the garage where SL was overlapping.

car overlapping.

 

[lee sumner]

she did do a lot in 10mins, and did she even mention the white fiesta to ann mahon who lived at the address with her husband richard who might not get his car in the garage because SL car was blocking it. only it was not blocking entry. it was 13 inches overlapping. if WJ was so suspicious of white fiesta like she made out, why did she and ann not go over to investigate. have a look at the car who knows it could have been stolen.

husband leo, not richard. my mistake.

 

[lee sumner]

Not quite sure what the logistics were, or even whether WJ told AM at all - or merely thought it. I'm not even sure at what point WJ says the car was overlapping - she seems to have been pretty distracted that day - kids off school, dog needing to be walked and returning to the house,. She's anxious about coins being counted at the bank and notices the time on the clock there...not sure how clear it is at what point she noticed the car... Could easily be later in the afternoon - i think generally agreed that she saw a different car earlier, albeit a similar one perhaps. Plenty of similar cars about, including tons of Fiestas. . Mr Mahon returned later though and was able to drive into the garage despite car overlapping (by about 18 inches, iirc).

i thought the same. in AS book it does not say WJ told AM about the white fiesta nearly blocking the garage entrance. the details are a bit sketchy, and if WJ was so suspicious of the fiesta why not walk over and check it out, it could have been a stolen car. she took her dog out, then gave AM a knock, then they drove to the bank waiting in line, then came home. all this in 10mins.

 

[lee sumner]

I really don’t feel MG is/was in any way shady or withholding information. He was young & found himself in an extraordinary position. Everyone was totally shocked at the time.

These deals & MG deciding who should get each property were very common at time, as NH put it to DV “live by the sword, die by the sword”. I do agree it would be useful to know which property it was SL had lost out on. The man holding the champagne at Shorrolds - if accurate sighting - was perhaps looking to seal a private deal. Private, as they carefully ruled out everyone on Sturgis books.

What’s interesting for me is if SL’s anger & frustration at losing out was unusual (?) She’d lost expected, if not immediate, money. Money, I think she was in a hurry for, looking at evidence we have.

The money she mentioned on Sat night, she didn’t say how she expected to come by it, were there ‘strings’ (?) Just thinking about @Clairybums sighting & how it might tie up. It almost certainly wasn’t ‘regular’ via Sturgis. When she found out what the conditions were, did she bail? Did losing out to NH make her finally take a risk she’d been considering?

@Clairybums sighting may well be the most important & relevant development in this case for some time.

re, gurdon. same here. he was SL boss. only 28 yrs old and in shock at what was happening.

 

[Rookie D]

husband leo, not richard. my mistake.

You were right the first time; the man who owned the garage was Richard Mahon.

 

[WestLondoner]

AS does not mention her losing commision to hindle. its probably more BS being fed to DV.

Or the police failed to understand the possible importance of what was happening in the office that day. They knew she might have gone to 37SR, 123SR, home, her mother's house or to the PoW. They searched the first four, but not the fifth, because the landlord said she'd not been. Can't imagine what they were thinking.

 

[Kasparthecat1]

Or the police failed to understand the possible importance of what was happening in the office that day. They knew she might have gone to 37SR, 123SR, home, her mother's house or to the PoW. They searched the first four, but not the fifth, because the landlord said she'd not been. Can't imagine what they were thinking.

I remember way back when on here that a member gave an explanation as to why the POW wasn't searched - can anyone remember that reason?

 

[Kasparthecat1]

pinnochio up here where i live also means someone who tell a lot of lies. was WJ a proper pinnochio telling porkies.

I thought too that DV was making a sly dig at her...

 

[WestLondoner]

I remember way back when on here that a member gave an explanation as to why the POW wasn't searched - can anyone remember that reason?

I think the claim was that it was impossible without a warrant and, rather incredibly, that to ask instead for permission might have antagonised the pub management. This concern did not seem to stop the plod searching WJ's house or breaking down SJL's door and leaving her flat unsecure for her lodger. It's a bit hard to believe that the police declined to ask to search a possible crime scene in case it upset the criminal. I'd have thought asking and being told No would be valuable intelligence in itself and worth asking the question for that reason alone.

Procedurally I find it bizarre that the police declared SJL to have been seen at 37SR before they'd fingerprinted the place. The claim she was there rested entirely on HR's statement, but HR also said he'd seen her coming out. The forensics, however, said nobody had been inside so nobody can have been heard coming out. So you have to wonder whether they'd have said something different had they waited to find that out before going public with the claim that they did. Once they'd said this out loud of course there was no going back.

 

[WestLondoner]

I thought too that DV was making a sly dig at her...

It wasn't even all that sly:

In 1986, police decided to check what time Wendy and Ann had been in the bank...they found Wendy and Ann had been in the bank at 12.49 p.m. ....this meant that Wendy’s sighting of a car parked opposite her house had likely taken place before Suzy had even left the office.

...It had to be a different car Wendy had seen. But Wendy was insistent that she wasn’t mistaken – the same car was there all day, parked opposite her house.

But when police checked with other witnesses, who also claimed to have seen a white car parked near Wendy’s house that day, some were saying they’d seen a vehicle parked in Stevenage Road as early as midday. ...Two workmen digging in Stevenage Road that day...told police they’d been on site from 9 a.m. until 4 p.m. that day, just yards from where Suzy’s car was eventually discovered. Both stated that they hadn’t seen her vehicle nor had they seen anything untoward or suspicious at all.

....By 20 August, the police publicly conceded that the white car spotted parked at 12.45 p.m. in Stevenage Road may not have belonged to Suzy, as first thought, and they put out an appeal for any driver who had parked a white car in Stevenage Road that day to contact them.

When I asked Wendy about the type of car Suzy had owned, Wendy seemed convinced that the car she’d seen was silver and not white.

‘I’m really into cars. And I think I would have known it was a Ford Fiesta.’ Wendy paused and then motioned toward her front window. ‘Like now, if there was a car parked across my drive, like yours is, and I’d gone out for four or five hours and come back, I would remember.’

‘What car have I got, Wendy?’ I asked, keen to put her to her own test. ‘Well, I would know it was silver, and a Jaguar…’ She smiled.
We all laughed.
My German car was blue.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

I think the claim was that it was impossible without a warrant and, rather incredibly, that to ask instead for permission might have antagonised the pub management. This concern did not seem to stop the plod searching WJ's house or breaking down SJL's door and leaving her flat unsecure for her lodger. It's a bit hard to believe that the police declined to ask to search a possible crime scene in case it upset the criminal. I'd have thought asking and being told No would be valuable intelligence in itself and worth asking the question for that reason alone.

Procedurally I find it bizarre that the police declared SJL to have been seen at 37SR before they'd fingerprinted the place. The claim she was there rested entirely on HR's statement, but HR also said he'd seen her coming out. The forensics, however, said nobody had been inside so nobody can have been heard coming out. So you have to wonder whether they'd have said something different had they waited to find that out before going public with the claim that they did. Once they'd said this out loud of course there was no going back.

Did HR say he saw them coming out? NB: he conceded it might be another neighbour’s door he heard banging (AS) not 37’s.

 

[Konstantin]

Did HR say he saw them coming out? NB: he conceded it might be another neighbour’s door he heard banging (AS) not 37’s.

I think he assumed they were coming out. He said they were looking up at the house as if to appraise it IIRC. But he also later seems to have told MG that the man bundled the woman into a car (whatever that even means - does he mean the man was rushing her or that he physically manhandled her? But then later he retracted this).
Whether MG knocked on his door to ask him if he'd seen SL attend the property next door or whether he came out and got involved when he saw MG presumably knocking on the door and shouting through the letterbox - how else could he ascertain SL wasn't inside? - is unknown. AS is a very vague writer at times.

 

[Kasparthecat1]

Did HR say he saw them coming out? NB: he conceded it might be another neighbour’s door he heard banging (AS) not 37’s.

I need to check, but iirc he heard a door bang, and then saw a woman talking to a man on the pavement. I'm not sure he could have seen them come out at all from where he was supposedly positioned looking out from his front room, and behind a net curtain I think too?

 

[GTB72]

Here's part of the conversation, from DV Finding Suzy:

"When she'd returned from watching Pinocchio at the cinema with the children at around 5pm, she was certain that the car was in the same position".

Not agreeing or disagreeing with it, just quoting the conversation WJ has with DV.

That contradicts the initial Crimewatch reconstruction which stated that she returned at 3.30pm and her husband drove into the garage at 5.15

That's the problem with this case, no-one seems to have a definite timeline.

4:10 onwards

 

[Kasparthecat1]

I think he assumed they were coming out. He said they were looking up at the house as if to appraise it IIRC. But he also later seems to have told MG that the man bundled the woman into a car (whatever that even means - does he mean the man was rushing her or that he physically manhandled her? But then later he retracted this).
Whether MG knocked on his door to ask him if he'd seen SL attend the property next door or whether he came out and got involved when he saw MG presumably knocking on the door and shouting through the letterbox - how else could he ascertain SL wasn't inside? - is unknown. AS is a very vague writer at times.

Yes, AS is vague here. I think he says MG checked "inside and out" but how could he have checked inside, if sjl had taken the only key?

 

[lee sumner]

You were right the first time; the man who owned the garage was Richard Mahon.

OK, thanks.

 

[lee sumner]

I think he assumed they were coming out. He said they were looking up at the house as if to appraise it IIRC. But he also later seems to have told MG that the man bundled the woman into a car (whatever that even means - does he mean the man was rushing her or that he physically manhandled her? But then later he retracted this).
Whether MG knocked on his door to ask him if he'd seen SL attend the property next door or whether he came out and got involved when he saw MG presumably knocking on the door and shouting through the letterbox - how else could he ascertain SL wasn't inside? - is unknown. AS is a very vague writer at times.

i always assumed riglin seen gurdon looking through the window of 37SR, then came out and asked him are you looking for a young couple.