UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 July 1986 #8

[Lady Stoddart-West]

It also predates any strong or public link to Cannan's involvement

Ive followed the case/thread for a time now but only just read material. AS, DV books, CBD book just arrived.Also the recent (Nov?) 2pt Podcast, articles, alongside the demented ramblings of you lot on the thread Very interesting. Been making a lot of notes/observations that I will inflict on you at some point!!

Recent poster CBums' posts did interest me on a very unproven and speculative line of notes I had. ...

The descriptions and discussion in recent thread about SJL's dyslexia and possible adhd type behaviour, coupled with the energy/drive/confidence attributed to her did make me consider that similar descriptions could be attributed to Cocaine use (previously noted by Lee and other poster as prevelent in 'Yuppie' culture of Thatcher's greed driven 80s, of which SJL was certainly a part of). Even more tangenitally (soz but this is how my head works) wondered if 'The Deal' consisted of investment in more than property!! Going along this wandering path of highly speculative drivel, very high profile public information animated films broadcast in the 70s/80s in the UK (of which SJL would be v likely have been aware of) featured a young boy and his pet Cat, 'Charlie (street slang for Cocaine from circa 1930)'!! Charlie was rewarded for listening to good advice by being given a Fish/Kipper? Anyone potentially coding a meeting to do with Drugs, outside of legitimate business, who had a sense of humour, may very well use Charlie/Kipper.


This is not the calm, helpful and rational first post I wanted to make after recent study . Other.points in the future will be more on point and, hopefully, helpful! All imo.

A v brief p.s.... Mentioned in last 10 or so pages was a query as to why SJL did not go to PoW before work on Mon morning to pick up lost items. SJL was not made aware of location of Items until arrived at office and had contact via/with her Bank (if aware she had lost them at all) The only way that an a.m visit would be likely imo, esp if the items were urgently needed/missed by SJL would be if she had been at the pub/phonebox the.previous night, so as it would be a viable place for her to look /enquire. This suggests to me either SJL never went to PoW/Phonebox previous to any plan/info to go Monday to collect. I strongly feel she never went to the PoW in that timeframe at all. Unless she was unaware of loss (highly unlikely imo due to importance of daily personal diary etc).

Pps. The article above has trouble depicting 10.02 pm in the Final clock? Looks like 10 to one! Not sure how high a bar of accuracy in general

(Falls over with texting finger cramp)

Interesting on the 'in joke'...along lines of 'Charlie? He's at all the very best parties". Welcome.

SL was one for an in joke 'Puff' to rhyme with a surname - not drugs etc.

Edits to AS are much more numerous than I realised. Sunday to Friday, re: day change I feel more confident about. This sensitivity about Sunday night, might it tie in to Claire's recent account of the sighting?

We have the edits, then the difficult material that came out only when lawyers invovled, then we have the factual type change to the timeline ro similar. All acknowleged by him. (AS). It was felt that these didn't hinder attempts to explain her abdcution.

We have Brookner, working from early copy, talking about Sunday night for lost things (not one to make mistakes in research as any Brookner scholar will tell you). Then we have Jeremy Paxman talking about 'cuts to her fingers' in another review. Again, not in AS, unless I have missed? And Paxman hardly sloppy or inventive in this context. He has nothing but the highest praise for AS. If AS makes mistakes, it's because of his sources at times.

The man in the 151 club, that tagged along and bought 'champagne' for SL and her date, the expat ,and had to be traced 'through credit card slips' and was in trouble in the past for 'insider dealing'. (AS). Why would a random man get invovled in their date? And why would the police take such trouble to find him?

It was thought by DL her private life had nothing to do with her disappearance. AL thought a deep dive was only muck raking. To me this 'contract' screams relevance for all the reasons discussed. If she discussed with her parents, and her father said they spoke 'at length'. Her parents were initially seemingly reluctant to immediately tell the police about this aspect to the last conversation. The police were very 'angry'. I think they hoped that she'd return and person responsible could be found without too much of a personal delve.

This person behind the contract SL seems to have said was, or had been, a client of Sturgis, but the police did an excellent job of sifting here, past and present clients etc, all were elliminated. So, I think it's fair to say he likely wasn't and that's not how initially their paths had crossed.

Her parents were loving, caring, genuine and decent people they will have advised caution. Possibly she pulled out of this deal a long way down the track and thought it would be far simpler to do so than it was. She didn't have the moneyfor any downpayment perhaps, she'd lost that commission to NH that she hoped or expected etc. Her cancelled chequebook effectively kaput.

Then in the Doc 'The Man Who Killed S L' SL's uncle, "there was someone leaning on her, she was almost angry".

Apparently the police coudln't trace all those in her diary from their names and only looked at a selection in the contact book. Some in the contact book gave odd reasons for knowing her "oh she was buying my car". Then we have AN in the contact book who met her at a very expensive new gym in Chiswick. AN's track history rather speaks for itself.

It's worth noting on the QE2 SL was seemingly very anti drugs and/or couldn't understand appeal - circa 1983/4.

 

[rvlvr]

And there it is mg reporting the missing sl at 6:45 not 5:30, bw saying sl looked serious but she was facing the passenger talking??

6.45pm seems to be the accepted time at which Suzy was reported missing, eg here by the SLT.

According to AS’s book (referenced in the third paragraph of an old post of mine, below) MG visited the local police station to report Suzy missing but left before he could do so as he had an appointment to keep. I’m wondering if he did this around 5.30 and this could explain some confusion re the time?

R

UK Post in thread 'UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #7'

Aug 11, 2025

I think it’s unlikely too but having read AS’s book again it’s very difficult to work out precisely what MG saw and did, and when.

“The estate agent manager”, we’re told on page 6 - and by ‘manager’ AS means MG - “remembered Susannah coming behind his desk to pick up the keys [to 37SR]”, yet on page 78 we’re told that, that lunchtime, MG was in “the Crocodile Tears wine bar … with colleagues from other Sturgis offices.” Was MG in the office when she left, or not?

On page 8, when Suzy hasn’t returned after lunch, we’re told that MG went to 37SR and “found no sign of Susannah in or out of...

• rvlvr

• 
• 

 

[kes1972]

6.45pm seems to be the accepted time at which Suzy was reported missing, eg here by the SLT.

According to AS’s book (referenced in the third paragraph of an old post of mine, below) MG visited the local police station to report Suzy missing but left before he could do so as he had an appointment to keep. I’m wondering if he did this around 5.30 and this could explain some confusion re the time?

R

UK Post in thread 'UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #7'

Aug 11, 2025

I think it’s unlikely too but having read AS’s book again it’s very difficult to work out precisely what MG saw and did, and when.

“The estate agent manager”, we’re told on page 6 - and by ‘manager’ AS means MG - “remembered Susannah coming behind his desk to pick up the keys [to 37SR]”, yet on page 78 we’re told that, that lunchtime, MG was in “the Crocodile Tears wine bar … with colleagues from other Sturgis offices.” Was MG in the office when she left, or not?

On page 8, when Suzy hasn’t returned after lunch, we’re told that MG went to 37SR and “found no sign of Susannah in or out of...

• rvlvr

• 
• 

Exactly, conflicting reports about everything that was happening with no clear timeline

 

[kes1972]

It also predates any strong or public link to Cannan's involvement

Ive followed the case/thread for a time now but only just read material. AS, DV books, CBD book just arrived.Also the recent (Nov?) 2pt Podcast, articles, alongside the demented ramblings of you lot on the thread Very interesting. Been making a lot of notes/observations that I will inflict on you at some point!!

Recent poster CBums' posts did interest me on a very unproven and speculative line of notes I had. ...

The descriptions and discussion in recent thread about SJL's dyslexia and possible adhd type behaviour, coupled with the energy/drive/confidence attributed to her did make me consider that similar descriptions could be attributed to Cocaine use (previously noted by Lee and other poster as prevelent in 'Yuppie' culture of Thatcher's greed driven 80s, of which SJL was certainly a part of). Even more tangenitally (soz but this is how my head works) wondered if 'The Deal' consisted of investment in more than property!! Going along this wandering path of highly speculative drivel, very high profile public information animated films broadcast in the 70s/80s in the UK (of which SJL would be v likely have been aware of) featured a young boy and his pet Cat, 'Charlie (street slang for Cocaine from circa 1930)'!! Charlie was rewarded for listening to good advice by being given a Fish/Kipper? Anyone potentially coding a meeting to do with Drugs, outside of legitimate business, who had a sense of humour, may very well use Charlie/Kipper.


This is not the calm, helpful and rational first post I wanted to make after recent study . Other.points in the future will be more on point and, hopefully, helpful! All imo.

A v brief p.s.... Mentioned in last 10 or so pages was a query as to why SJL did not go to PoW before work on Mon morning to pick up lost items. SJL was not made aware of location of Items until arrived at office and had contact via/with her Bank (if aware she had lost them at all) The only way that an a.m visit would be likely imo, esp if the items were urgently needed/missed by SJL would be if she had been at the pub/phonebox the.previous night, so as it would be a viable place for her to look /enquire. This suggests to me either SJL never went to PoW/Phonebox previous to any plan/info to go Monday to collect. I strongly feel she never went to the PoW in that timeframe at all. Unless she was unaware of loss (highly unlikely imo due to importance of daily personal diary etc).

Pps. The article above has trouble depicting 10.02 pm in the Final clock? Looks like 10 to one! Not sure how high a bar of accuracy in general

(Falls over with texting finger cramp)

This definitely plays into the 10c dorncliffe road sighting.

 

[kes1972]

 

[EddietheEagle]

This article below is Interesting when you consider that MG said on camera in the reconstruction, that he called the police around "5.30pm."

Daily Mirror, 21st August 1986...

View attachment 652192

It makes me wonder if his claim of going to 37 Shorrolds Road to check if SL was there, could actually be corroborated?

As I've said previously; despite being nervous on camera, MG was seemingly hiding something.

He met Harry Riglin and discussed the matter with him. There is little reason to doubt the veracity of his visit and what he did there. This would all have undoubtably been checked by police and moreover, gone through further in detail during his personal involvement in production of the reconstruction.

 

[GTB72]

Exactly, conflicting reports about everything that was happening with no clear timeline

In the AS book near the start one of the Detectives(can't remember which unfortunately) predicted that it would all come down to the timeline. How right he was.

 

[lee sumner]

This article below is Interesting when you consider that MG said on camera in the reconstruction, that he called the police around "5.30pm."

Daily Mirror, 21st August 1986...

View attachment 652192

It makes me wonder if his claim of going to 37 Shorrolds Road to check if SL was there, could actually be corroborated?

As I've said previously; despite being nervous on camera, MG was seemingly hiding something.

he was going to report SL missing sooner, but there was a lot of people at fulham police station, so he came back hours later and reported her missing around 650PM.

 

[lee sumner]

It also predates any strong or public link to Cannan's involvement

Ive followed the case/thread for a time now but only just read material. AS, DV books, CBD book just arrived.Also the recent (Nov?) 2pt Podcast, articles, alongside the demented ramblings of you lot on the thread Very interesting. Been making a lot of notes/observations that I will inflict on you at some point!!

Recent poster CBums' posts did interest me on a very unproven and speculative line of notes I had. ...

The descriptions and discussion in recent thread about SJL's dyslexia and possible adhd type behaviour, coupled with the energy/drive/confidence attributed to her did make me consider that similar descriptions could be attributed to Cocaine use (previously noted by Lee and other poster as prevelent in 'Yuppie' culture of Thatcher's greed driven 80s, of which SJL was certainly a part of). Even more tangenitally (soz but this is how my head works) wondered if 'The Deal' consisted of investment in more than property!! Going along this wandering path of highly speculative drivel, very high profile public information animated films broadcast in the 70s/80s in the UK (of which SJL would be v likely have been aware of) featured a young boy and his pet Cat, 'Charlie (street slang for Cocaine from circa 1930)'!! Charlie was rewarded for listening to good advice by being given a Fish/Kipper? Anyone potentially coding a meeting to do with Drugs, outside of legitimate business, who had a sense of humour, may very well use Charlie/Kipper.


This is not the calm, helpful and rational first post I wanted to make after recent study . Other.points in the future will be more on point and, hopefully, helpful! All imo.

A v brief p.s.... Mentioned in last 10 or so pages was a query as to why SJL did not go to PoW before work on Mon morning to pick up lost items. SJL was not made aware of location of Items until arrived at office and had contact via/with her Bank (if aware she had lost them at all) The only way that an a.m visit would be likely imo, esp if the items were urgently needed/missed by SJL would be if she had been at the pub/phonebox the.previous night, so as it would be a viable place for her to look /enquire. This suggests to me either SJL never went to PoW/Phonebox previous to any plan/info to go Monday to collect. I strongly feel she never went to the PoW in that timeframe at all. Unless she was unaware of loss (highly unlikely imo due to importance of daily personal diary etc).

Pps. The article above has trouble depicting 10.02 pm in the Final clock? Looks like 10 to one! Not sure how high a bar of accuracy in general

(Falls over with texting finger cramp)

that is what i like about AS book on the case, because there is no JC BS going on. he had access to the case file, and it was published not long after lamplugh disappeared, and its obvious SL herself was something of a mystery.

 

[lee sumner]

Is it not possible for both to be correct? Ergo, SJL could have driven to Stevenage Road and then been picked up there and driven to 37 Shorrolds Road? In the original Crimewatch reconstruction they said that there were no sightings of Suzy's car in Shorrolds Road whereas there are 3 potential physical sightings of her and Kipper there.

.

its possible, but does not sound plausible. why even go to stevenage rd in the first place.

 

[Kasparthecat1]

its possible, but does not sound plausible. why even go to stevenage rd in the first place.

I seem to recall that MB also thinks this, and did so at the time. Why indeed? Doesn't make sense (jmo) and it would make the timings very tight indeed. According to that Mirror article posted above, she left the office at 12.40 and arrived at 123 SR at 12.45 in time for WJ to see the car there. Ok it's only a mile, but she'd need to locate the car in Whittingstall Road, drive to 123 SR, park up and leave the car by 12.45. That's too tight in my view. I feel that WJ's timings are correct, as she had reason to check the clock at the bank, but is mistaken about the car being parked there at that time (perhaps a different car, or confused by seeing the car there later).

A lift perhaps? For convenience? That being the case, how does the theory about her car being abandoned in a hurry fit in, with seat pushed right back, handbrake off?

Doesn't stack up (JMO).

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

I seem to recall that MB also thinks this, and did so at the time. Why indeed? Doesn't make sense (jmo) and it would make the timings very tight indeed. According to that Mirror article posted above, she left the office at 12.40 and arrived at 123 SR at 12.45 in time for WJ to see the car there. Ok it's only a mile, but she'd need to locate the car in Whittingstall Road, drive to 123 SR, park up and leave the car by 12.45. That's too tight in my view. I feel that WJ's timings are correct, as she had reason to check the clock at the bank, but is mistaken about the car being parked there at that time (perhaps a different car, or confused by seeing the car there later).

A lift perhaps? For convenience? That being the case, how does the theory about her car being abandoned in a hurry fit in, with seat pushed right back, handbrake off?

Doesn't stack up (JMO).

Not to mention returning dog & walking around embankment (DV) & taking enough time to cash up coins, to worry causing distress to others queuing, so glancing at clock to note time (AS). Plus you’ve got to get kids in & out of car.

If we take the first WJ sighting out things begin to make more sense.

 

[WestLondoner]

WJ is mistaken about the car IMO, for several reasons.

1/ a 15yo schoolboy reported seeing a white Fiesta there at 12 noon. Maybe not the best witness but it would have been the first day of the school hols so he might well remember more than otherwise.

2/ SJL could juuust about have gone to 123SR and then gone to 37SR in someone else's car, but (i) why? and (ii) if so, the car was abandoned with her purse inside, door left open and seat moved at 12.45. Nothing explains that.

3/ SJL was seen in the car by BW at 2.45, and apparently also by EM in Dorncliffe at about the same time. So if it was outside WJ's house at 12.45, it was then moved unnoticed, driven around, and put back into the same parking spot unnoticed.

4/ DV's little test of WJ's recall did not suggest her memory was especially reliable.

A better explanation of the WJ sighting is that a different car parked there from 12 noon, left, and was later replaced by SJL's car. I.e. there were two similar cars. When SJL's car was placed there it was either abandoned in a hurry while the driver, taller than SJL, switched into another car. Or, she drove it there, got into someone else's car and that someone returned to it later to search its floors for some piece of evidence that needed to be removed. The sloppy parking suggests a quick transfer into another car next to it, perhaps the BMW reported by the jogger.

This is a fairly parsimonious interpretation, in that it calls for minimal handwaving away of awkward sightings. A similar car was seen by WJ; the various 37SR reports can be accepted; the BW and EM sightings also fit, as do the "James Galway" and the jogger sightings, as does the "yowl" someone heard that could have been a human or a cat.

As LSW notes, this sequence implies an escalation in or off Stevenage around 3pm. SJL goes first to 37SR but not inside, drives around for 2 hours and is seen by BW and EM, and arrives at 123SR around 3 either to look at a house or drop Kipper at his car. She ends up in his car screaming for attention and is then taken somewhere else nearby. My guess would be into a garage.

 

[Clairybums]

Hi Claire, welcome to the thread and thankyou so very much for your amazing posts.

For those in the know I cannot help but think of this $3k commission spoken about at the party on Saturday night and if this could be linked at all to Dorncliffe Road on the Monday somehow.

Also posting an article from 9.12.87 regarding a bedsit flat. Could be nothing (and not sure if they are meaning 200yrds from Shorrolds or Stevenage)

Thank You K,

I'm well aware that I've seemingly popped up from nowhere. No one knows me or my father and I've told this story with no corroborating evidence to back it up. I honestly wish I did. The only way I could post to the forum was to sign up. It was something I felt was right to do even if only for my father and in the hope that someone on here (more able that I) might have investigative skills and/or resources. In my mind I hoped that someone, at some point in the future would be able to find out about any possible link to do with WScrubbs, the man and the neighbour (G) from downstairs. The police officer did tell my brother and me that although he did believe it was SL my father had seen that day, the information would not be of use now, so many years later, in finding SL and we accepted that.

At this time I still believe it was JC but mainly because, according to what my brother remembers, when JC was finishing out his time in WScrubbs was around the same time that G was doing 6 months in there. No, I dont have exact dates of their releases or whether they both were at the halfway house before they were freed. I have spoken to my brother more in the last 2 days than in the last year.

I will get hold of the books that have been recommended. It's possible that after reading them, I will change my mind about JC being my prime suspect.

If I do ever get hold of anything that can corroborate, I will be sure to share it.

P.s. sorry for my oversharing in my posts. I am known among my family and friends for this... trying to tell a story, going off on tangents mid way when it sparks another side story then trying to remember where I got to in the main story

 

[Konstantin]

A better explanation of the WJ sighting is that a different car parked there from 12 noon, left, and was later replaced by SJL's car. I.e. there were two similar cars. When SJL's car was placed there it was either abandoned in a hurry while the driver, taller than SJL, switched into another car. Or, she drove it there, got into someone else's car and that someone returned to it later to search its floors for some piece of evidence that needed to be removed. The sloppy parking suggests a quick transfer into another car next to it, perhaps the BMW reported by the jogger.

I think WJ saw the car there later and her memory played tricks on her. It's really common. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously inaccurate. The car was there later. So, definitely she saw it later. And I believe she looked at the clock at the bank. But it's impossible for the car to have been there earlier.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

Could we be looking at a rendezvous in Shorrolds Rd, a lunch (poss in the local Fulham restaurant where we have a tenuous sighting) & then ‘Kipper’ asks SL to make a pitstop at Dorncliffe Rd?

It’s all ‘deal’ related, earlier lunch etc & Kipper stringing her along. SL is beginning to get cold feet anyway after discussions with her parents sowing seeds of doubt. The Dorncliffe pitstop is the final straw, perhaps she realises it points to something very shady, & she pulls out. Deal is off!

Everything escalates around the corner…

 

[GTB72]

Could we be looking at a rendezvous in Shorrolds Rd, a lunch (poss in the local Fulham restaurant where we have a tenuous sighting) & then ‘Kipper’ asks SL to make a pitstop at Dorncliffe Rd?

It’s all ‘deal’ related, earlier lunch etc & Kipper stringing her along. SL is beginning to get cold feet anyway after discussions with her parents sowing seeds of doubt. The Dorncliffe pitstop is the final straw, perhaps she realises it points to something very shady, & she pulls out. Deal is off!

Everything escalates around the corner…

Yep. I've always thought this was a business deal gone wrong.

 

[kes1972]

6.45pm seems to be the accepted time at which Suzy was reported missing, eg here by the SLT.

According to AS’s book (referenced in the third paragraph of an old post of mine, below) MG visited the local police station to report Suzy missing but left before he could do so as he had an appointment to keep. I’m wondering if he did this around 5.30 and this could explain some confusion re the time?

R

UK Post in thread 'UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #7'

Aug 11, 2025

I think it’s unlikely too but having read AS’s book again it’s very difficult to work out precisely what MG saw and did, and when.

“The estate agent manager”, we’re told on page 6 - and by ‘manager’ AS means MG - “remembered Susannah coming behind his desk to pick up the keys [to 37SR]”, yet on page 78 we’re told that, that lunchtime, MG was in “the Crocodile Tears wine bar … with colleagues from other Sturgis offices.” Was MG in the office when she left, or not?

On page 8, when Suzy hasn’t returned after lunch, we’re told that MG went to 37SR and “found no sign of Susannah in or out of...

• rvlvr

• 
• 

So mg was not at lunch with yhe big boss and sl was not waiting for her colleagues to return do she could leave, is there sl time of arriving at work and her colleagues coming back to the office or tomr they went out

 

[kes1972]

Yep. I've always thought this was a business deal gone wrong.

The good thing is if there is a dorncliffe connection then there may be answers to be found and people to be questioned

 

[WestLondoner]

The Dorncliffe angle supports the idea that BW was right all along, and plod wrong to dismiss both. Once they'd persuaded themselves that there was a Mr Kipper at 37SR, and later that this was JC, the focus was on not explaining these sightings, but on explaining them away; which is not the same.