UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 July 1986 #8

[kes1972]

Hello

Apologies if this has already been discussed but can anyone please tell me exactly where in Fulham Palace Road the BW sighting was (see Crimewatch 86 -2000 reconstruction starting at approx 5.19? I have tried to locate via google street search and for the life of me I cannot work it out.

Many thanks for any assistance.

Fulham palace road bw was where the gates are to the fulham cemetery and heading along towards langthorne with sl travelling what would be north towards hammersmith

 

[kes1972]

Fulham palace road bw was where the gates are to the fulham cemetery and heading along towards langthorne with sl travelling what would be north towards hammersmith

The reconstruction is all wrong showing bw on the other side of the road with sl heading south, you have to wonder why they aired false information

 

[Klclevi]

Hi
Is anyone able to tell me more about about mailing address fraud in the UK in 86 please? @WestLondoner !
I am aware that this was the year the Insolvency Act (1986) was passed and The Roskill Report.

I am thinking
Company fraud (multiple companies set up to allude tax/debt)
Credit card fraud
Drugs?

Looking for specific examples if anyone has any that they know of from the UK at the time.

thankyou very much

 

[EddietheEagle]

There wasn’t a back door it seems. Getting access difficult that way involved scaling walls & cutting undergrowth etc. Apparently.

No. There certainly was a back door. All these terraced houses had back doors. The one at No 37 led into a small rear garden which in turn was walled off from the public baths which once stood behind. I've been there. I think the covered building had been demolished at the time of these events. It certainly presented no barrier to anyone climbing over to get in.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

No. There certainly was a back door. All these terraced houses had back doors. The one at No 37 led into a small rear garden which in turn was walled off from the public baths which once stood behind. I've been there. I think the covered building had been demolished at the time of these events. It certainly presented no barrier to anyone climbing over to get in.

Covered building meaning Baths? You’d need to go in through front door to get to back - is that what DV means re: wall scaling etc? In other words if you don’t enter via front door gaining entry by back, difficult (?)

 

[EddietheEagle]

You'd have been able to get in via the back as it was open ground behind the house where the baths once were (a nice Victorian building; it should have been listed but I think a developer got in quick and knocked it down!). I'm not sure whether there was an access alley along the back of those houses or not. Old maps would show it. If the police had wanted to enter via the back they could have done so.

Those kind of questions should be put to the retired detectives, Johnstone or Barley, who worked on the original case and now turn up in videos and podcasts. Surely one of them would remember. They were there on the night.

 

[su5ie]

There is no evidence (beyond this entirely hearsay nonsense of DV's, written in a different century) that police got inside with a key. In fact, quite the opposite. Officers were instructed to "enter and search". That implies a forced or different method of entry. You don't necessarily have to break a front door down either.

There is also no evidence whatsoever that the house was immediately made the subject of forensic examination. This was a missing person inquiry.

I rarely comment as you all are so clued in to the ins and outs I just enjoy reading your posts but I will say

You are completely correct ,no need to bust through a door to break in nor damage the locks

A long stick / pole like instrument through the letterbox and flip the knob and voila you are in , I done this countless times when I was locked out of my parents house . No key needed

 

[lee sumner]

Unless MG put the keys back on the board himself, after he returned from 37SR just after 3.30pm.

But not before dropping the Fiesta off outside 123 Stevenage Road of course.


I mean, it's pretty thin, but can you imagine.

keep it simple. occams principle. this case is not difficult. other people interested in the case make it hard work trying to figure out what happened that day, when it is not complicated. perp snatched lamplugh after making an appointment to view 37SR, he then took lamplugh to another property where she was held captive, he then ditched the car on stevenage rd picked up his own vehicle then back tracked to the property where lamplugh was being held.

 

[lee sumner]

Also a case perhaps for her leaving the office and being abducted at her car?

SB was parked in car park on busy, Thurs late night shopping centre. Whilst there, bumped into others she knew on escalator.

Off topic but as SB knew of JC from Avon Gorge wine bar & in his sitting room prob not under duress at some point (looking at docs there - thumb print) odds are fair she gave JC a lift willingly & came in for drink initially (?) Might explain why no one noted a commotion outside Foye house flats.

good point you make regarding SB and foye house. i did wonder how JC got SB in his flat. obviously she was told to comply and would have been scared to call out for help, and yes, she might have known JC from the avon gorge wine bar.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

good point you make regarding SB and foye house. i did wonder how JC got SB in his flat. obviously she was told to comply and would have been scared to call out for help, and yes, she might have known JC from the avon gorge wine bar.

Thank you, her husband definitely knew of him from the bar so the odds are very good that she was on nodding terms if not more. No reason not to offer a friendly lift etc...

 

[lee sumner]

I rarely comment as you all are so clued in to the ins and outs I just enjoy reading your posts but I will say

You are completely correct ,no need to bust through a door to break in nor damage the locks

A long stick / pole like instrument through the letterbox and flip the knob and voila you are in , I done this countless times when I was locked out of my parents house . No key needed

thank you. su5ie. what you said is what i always said about the keys to 37SR. great minds think a like, ha, ha.

 

[su5ie]

thank you. su5ie. what you said is what i always said about the keys to 37SR. great minds think a like, ha, ha.

You have to have a certain history or life experience to know those methods

 

[WestLondoner]

How did MG get in without the keys, as AS said he did?

 

[lee sumner]

The reconstruction is all wrong showing bw on the other side of the road with sl heading south, you have to wonder why they aired false information

the first reconstruction made by SIO, carter which aired one week after SL went missing shows mr kipper waiting outside 37SR, but i think SL turned up first to 37SR and mr kipper arrived after her. i also dont believe she ever was on stevenage rd.

 

[lee sumner]

The later police team (Ryan etc) did seemingly tacitly agree with DV on his ‘one set’ of keys narrative. His thinking & evidence sound. DV suggests someone kept head down in Sturgis office when the key ‘mistake’ was noted & realised. Difficult & embarrassing, perhaps, if so. Things snowballed & gathered momentum.

DV is good I think at challenging assumptions. What the early team believed in good faith early on can of course change if the evidence supports.

The whole key issue isn’t such a big bone of contention for me as what’s harder to dispute is that SL & ‘Kipper’ were outside. A ‘rendezvous’…

DV seems to think it was someone else outside, or another couple, but surely the odds it wasn’t are slim. (He’s right though in that this wasn’t considered or ruled out at time) It would have been good to hear more from him on this.

yes but DV assumptions then become evidence in his mind. i feel DV puts out false info.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

How did MG get in without the keys, as AS said he did?

There was always a set in office it turned out, I think that’s not in dispute (?) Just some believe a duplicate set later found or others cut (?) At first visit MG goes without keys & bangs on door (?) Will look at AS.

 

[lee sumner]

the first reconstruction made by SIO, carter which aired one week after SL went missing shows mr kipper waiting outside 37SR, but i think SL turned up first to 37SR and mr kipper arrived after her. i also dont believe she ever was on stevenage rd.

re, BW. she did not come forward until 5 days into the enquiry, and why would mr kipper be driving around with SL at 2.45PM which is 2 hours after viewing shorrolds rd. mr kipper would probably have SL held captive by this time. he is not going to e driving around with SL all day. i dont buy it.

 

[lee sumner]

AFAIK the early team was investigating a missing person case, rather than a murder case.

I don't give much credit to DV. I think this thread is a far better source in terms of uncovering feasible information, than anything his interviews revealed.

You could say it's not difficult to dispute Suzy and Kipper being outside, as none of the potential witness statements have ever been confirmed.

this forum is excellent. the people on here are more intelligent than DV. iam not having a go at DV, I just think his theory is madness. we can agree to disagree, ha, ha.

 

[lee sumner]

The later police team (Ryan etc) did seemingly tacitly agree with DV on his ‘one set’ of keys narrative. His thinking & evidence sound. DV suggests someone kept head down in Sturgis office when the key ‘mistake’ was noted & realised. Difficult & embarrassing, perhaps, if so. Things snowballed & gathered momentum.

DV is good I think at challenging assumptions. What the early team believed in good faith early on can of course change if the evidence supports.

The whole key issue isn’t such a big bone of contention for me as what’s harder to dispute is that SL & ‘Kipper’ were outside. A ‘rendezvous’…

DV seems to think it was someone else outside, or another couple, but surely the odds it wasn’t are slim. (He’s right though in that this wasn’t considered or ruled out at time) It would have been good to hear more from him on this.

SL did put 0/S in her diary when she wrote down the appointment at 37SR, which obviously means she is meeting the client outside the property.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

SL did put 0/S in her diary when she wrote down the appointment at 37SR, which obviously means she is meeting the client outside the property.

Well - police did consider it was a ruse to leave office, in other words not a bona fide straight appointment in 1986 (before DV) & investigated to this end. Evidence looked to support fact it was a legitimate viewing but still a consideration for the team.

‘Kipper’ wasn’t a registered Sturgis client, all evidence points to something private ‘off the books’ with a man she knew to some degree. AS & police all thought/agreed in end almost certainly she knew him.

For me the answer to why she went missing lies in the below If the police knew ‘WHO’ re: below we’d all be a long way to solving this.

This gets lost & ignored but it’s important & IMO key & is still unsolved to this day:

P.79 AS

She was working on a deal, she confided to a fellow guest, that if successful would mean she was due a large commission…possibly as much as 3K” She was also hopeful to be buying a property with someone in a joint deal. She talked about 3 unsuccessful attempts to sell her flat and how she hoped to clinch a sale soon.

This wasn’t linked to Sturgis to a Sturgis sale or estate agent.

To her parents she said on last Sunday “Don’t ask me about the deal I’ll tell you more when I can” but had confided it involved a joint purchase on a property she couldn’t afford alone & there were dubious ‘strings’ attached as earlier article I posted showed.

She was anxious about the flat sale Mum said in run up to abduction and uncle said ‘almost angry’ about someone leaning on her.

There must surely be a clue in a diary or contact book & for a secretive person she did sometimes share & confide. ‘Guess where I spent Saturday night!’ to Sturgis colleagues, to her uncle, etc.