UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 July 1986

[Crusader21]

The person probably wiped down the car.

The big problem with SLs company car is it was used by her after work so family, friends and aquaintances etc could have legitmately left prints, fibres etc.

Also the male office junior used the motor that very morning for a Sturgis house viewing.

So sadly the car simply would have been a riot of prints, fibres, hairs etc .....

I read that there was no evidence of the car being wiped down. We've also the poss that the person abandoning the car, easily could have slipped on a pair of gloves.

Unfortunately it is easy to see why (in 1986), after running their tests, the police released the car for the upcoming reconstuction and ultimately back to Sturgis.

 

[WestLondoner]

It may be that CS supposedly being a voyeur was also made up by the police to justify making up further charges. It was something I read at the time so 20, 30 years on I don't have a source. Either way, CS was plainly innocent of anything at all.

Re the stocktake - DV's interviewees reckon it would have been done by midday. The earliest SJL was likely to have been there was 1pm. They had a good hour in which to head off.

I remain convinced that DV has other information about that has not made it into his book because it can't, but that explains why he makes the connection he has. Let's face it, the first reaction almost everyone has to his theory that SJL is under the dining room of that pub is Eh? But that would have to mean CV did it, and why would he?

Why would he indeed. I think what's happened is that DV has had to omit completely a huge strand of his thinking. The conclusion of a 4-part TV detective series makes no sense to you if episode 3 goes missing. In the same way, we all follow DV's leap of logic from SJL never went to Shorrolds to Hence she must have gone to that pub or home. That makes complete sense. But from there to And therefore she was killed at the pub...well, that is just not supported.

In AS' 1988 book, which we know DV has read, SJL was involved in a business deal on the side, had a racy sex life, had traded up from AL the very weekend before she went missing, and was seen by an acquaintance on the last afternoon. The whole lot of that is omitted from his book. I reckon that the inferences he has drawn from all those probably form the basis of his conclusion. Somehow, DV has unearthed something that shows SJL went to that pub, and he knows who she met there, and he knows she died there or near there.

FWIW I think the floor story is another red herring. DV may have misstated where she is, like he has misstated CV's name. If you're the killer and a book comes out that identifies where you left her, a place that you know has never been searched, you may be tempted to move whatever's left of her before someone does search it.

Had I to guess, I would say, as I think I've mentioned before, that she is to be found somewhere along the railway embankment onto which the pub backs. It is secured so that it can't be accessed from the road, but it can be accessed unobserved from the back of the pub if you had a ladder and it has trees all along it to hide you.
Google Maps
So her killer gets onto the embankment by night, hidden among trees; carries her along a suitable distance away from the pub, and buries her. Probably nobody has disturbed that embankment in 35 years.

 

[WestLondoner]

Nobody wiped the car down either because they wore gloves or, as Crusader21 observes, because the presence of their fingerprints were able to be explained legitimately. If it's the latter (who carries gloves around in July?), it is a further pointer to the killer being someone she knew well.

 

[asyousay]

Does anybody know where you can read the AS 1988 book like a digital copy?


I don’t mind paying but £50 is extortion


Her parents did a right number on the case if they did hush up her sleeping around as who knows what clues were lost because they didn’t want their reputation ruined. IMO MOO


ETA - I’m not blaming them but this is why parents being involved in the case is never a good idea.

 

[Terryb808]

The person probably wiped down the car.


Also what’s the hammersmith sighting by a friend and timeline of it?

Modern forensics would find a link to the perpetrator, just wiping it down wouldn’t work today.
Back then it’s probably enough to avoid detection and if you had a legitimate reason to have been in the car you’ll be covered anyway.

 

[Terryb808]

The big problem with SLs company car is it was used by her after work so family, friends and aquaintances etc could have legitmately left prints, fibres etc.

Also the male office junior used the motor that very morning for a Sturgis house viewing.

So sadly the car simply would have been a riot of prints, fibres, hairs etc .....

I read that there was no evidence of the car being wiped down. We've also the poss that the person abandoning the car, easily could have slipped on a pair of gloves.

Unfortunately it is easy to see why (in 1986), after running their tests, the police released the car for the upcoming reconstuction and ultimately back to Sturgis.

If we’re sure that the car was not wiped clean it’s another indicator that it wasn’t JC. Part of his routine was to wipe down the vehicle using a pair of white cotton gloves, he also tended to wipe over any seat he had occupied.
As it was abandoned in a hurry this explains the lack of a wipe down.

 

[WestLondoner]

Her parents completely wrecked the case IMO.

It was her mother who, the very same night, found the unreliable witness who claimed to have seen her car in Stevenage Road since 1pm (but who today could not remember the car DV had arrived in 40 minutes before). Her mother organised her own press conferences in which she released those misleading old photos of SJL as a brunette. She also engaged mediums to conduct psychic "searches" for her.

SJL's parents originated AS' book but then objected to his well-researched portrayal of her and said they did not "recognise" her as described, as though that meant it wasn't accurate. After the eccentric Christopher Berry-Dee alleged "Mr Kipper" was JC, having previously claimed it was Fred West and also someone else (Michael Sams?), it was DL who took this to the police as "new information". It was at the family's insistence that the plod then reopened the inquiry, not to see who had done it but to prove it was JC.

DL then insisted they hold the press conference in which the police asserted JC had done it, even though the CPS (who as lawyers are probably smarter than the plod) didn't believe them.

The plod were to blame too, for fixating on the fictitious Mr Kipper, but for my money the reason DV has got further is exactly because the parents aren't around to derail or misdirect.

 

[Terryb808]

It may be that CS supposedly being a voyeur was also made up by the police to justify making up further charges. It was something I read at the time so 20, 30 years on I don't have a source. Either way, CS was plainly innocent of anything at all.

Re the stocktake - DV's interviewees reckon it would have been done by midday. The earliest SJL was likely to have been there was 1pm. They had a good hour in which to head off.

I remain convinced that DV has other information about that has not made it into his book because it can't, but that explains why he makes the connection he has. Let's face it, the first reaction almost everyone has to his theory that SJL is under the dining room of that pub is Eh? But that would have to mean CV did it, and why would he?

Why would he indeed. I think what's happened is that DV has had to omit completely a huge strand of his thinking. The conclusion of a 4-part TV detective series makes no sense to you if episode 3 goes missing. In the same way, we all follow DV's leap of logic from SJL never went to Shorrolds to Hence she must have gone to that pub or home. That makes complete sense. But from there to And therefore she was killed at the pub...well, that is just not supported.

In AS' 1988 book, which we know DV has read, SJL was involved in a business deal on the side, had a racy sex life, had traded up from AL the very weekend before she went missing, and was seen by an acquaintance on the last afternoon. The whole lot of that is omitted from his book. I reckon that the inferences he has drawn from all those probably form the basis of his conclusion. Somehow, DV has unearthed something that shows SJL went to that pub, and he knows who she met there, and he knows she died there or near there.

FWIW I think the floor story is another red herring. DV may have misstated where she is, like he has misstated CV's name. If you're the killer and a book comes out that identifies where you left her, a place that you know has never been searched, you may be tempted to move whatever's left of her before someone does search it.

Had I to guess, I would say, as I think I've mentioned before, that she is to be found somewhere along the railway embankment onto which the pub backs. It is secured so that it can't be accessed from the road, but it can be accessed unobserved from the back of the pub if you had a ladder and it has trees all along it to hide you.
Google Maps
So her killer gets onto the embankment by night, hidden among trees; carries her along a suitable distance away from the pub, and buries her. Probably nobody has disturbed that embankment in 35 years.

If SJL died in the pub that lunchtime the only real suspects are CV & partner. If anyone else was involved CV would still be an accessory after the fact. To keep quiet all this time if he didn’t kill her would need a pretty compelling reason.

 

[asyousay]

Her parents completely wrecked the case IMO.

It was her mother who, the very same night, found the unreliable witness who claimed to have seen her car in Stevenage Road since 1pm (but who today could not remember the car DV had arrived in 40 minutes before). Her mother organised her own press conferences in which she released those misleading old photos of SJL as a brunette. She also engaged mediums to conduct psychic "searches" for her.

SJL's parents originated AS' book but then objected to his well-researched portrayal of her and said they did not "recognise" her as described, as though that meant it wasn't accurate. After the eccentric Christopher Berry-Dee alleged "Mr Kipper" was JC, having previously claimed it was Fred West and also someone else (Michael Sams?), it was DL who took this to the police as "new information". It was at the family's insistence that the plod then reopened the inquiry, not to see who had done it but to prove it was JC.

DL then insisted they hold the press conference in which the police asserted JC had done it, even though the CPS (who as lawyers are probably smarter than the plod) didn't believe them.

The plod were to blame too, for fixating on the fictitious Mr Kipper, but for my money the reason DV has got further is exactly because the parents aren't around to derail or misdirect.

I just don’t want to blame her parents totally as they did lose their daughter in the worse way imaginable.


But yes it goes to show what money does doesn’t it?!!


It’s only because they were rich that they were allowed to involve themselves in the investigation it seems. A normal working class family would never of been given some much freedom to control the narrative as it were.


MOO

 

[Crusader21]

If it's the latter (who carries gloves around in July?)

Someone who worked with gloves. A barman would have in a pair at hand for changing kegs etc ....

 

[Crusader21]

If we’re sure that the car was not wiped clean it’s another indicator that it wasn’t JC. Part of his routine was to wipe down the vehicle using a pair of white cotton gloves, he also tended to wipe over any seat he had occupied.
As it was abandoned in a hurry this explains the lack of a wipe down.

Good call Terry, the copper Barley said it wasn't wiped in one of the recent tv docs, I'll try and find ....

 

[asyousay]

Do we know how old CV was at the time of the disappearance?

 

[Crusader21]

Do we know how old CV was at the time of the disappearance?

From memory, late 20s. Mid 60s today .....

 

[asyousay]

From memory, late 20s. Mid 60s today .....

From memory, late 20s. Mid 60s today .....

I just had to go back and check and he isn’t tall - average height so he wouldn’t need the chair to go all the way back in the car. If what we are lead to believe is true this man had to be over 6. FT

 

[Terryb808]

From memory, late 20s. Mid 60s today .....

CV war 28 when SJL disappeared (29 when the police re-interviewed a year after SJL disappeared).

 

[Terryb808]

I just had to go back and check and he isn’t tall - average height so he wouldn’t need the chair to go all the way back in the car. If what we are lead to believe is true this man had to be over 6. FT

I'm over 6ft and used to drive the same Ford Fiesta back then, I didn't need to push the seat all the way back to drive it. In fact if the seat was all the way back it was uncomfortable to drive.
As pointed out by others, a male with a beer belly might push the seat back to get out in a hurry.

 

[asyousay]

I'm over 6ft and used to drive the same Ford Fiesta back then, I didn't need to push the seat all the way back to drive it. In fact if the seat was all the way back it was uncomfortable to drive.
As pointed out by others, a male with a beer belly might push the seat back to get out in a hurry.

Ooh that’s interesting as I don’t drive so that never occurred to me. Was CV fat?

 

[Terryb808]

Ooh that’s interesting as I don’t drive so that never occurred to me. Was CV fat?

DV indicated he was when he interviewed him, however, doesn’t mean he was when he was 28 years old. Depends on his liking for the product of his trade.
Interestingly even before DV’s book he disappeared from all social media apparently, so he knew he would come under the microscope.

 

[WestLondoner]

Slightly O/T but I was an utter car nut in 1986 and at that time there were only five or six colours available for most Fords. These were white, red, blue, and silver, and from year to year they'd add another colour or two, such as metallic blue or black.

White, red and blue were the commonest colours because the others were extra cost. White was commonest of all because you could put corporate decals on it. The likelihood of more than one white Fiesta, a strong selling car, being in the area was therefore pretty high.

 

[asyousay]

DV indicated he was when he interviewed him, however, doesn’t mean he was when he was 28 years old. Depends on his liking for the product of his trade.
Interestingly even before DV’s book he disappeared from all social media apparently, so he knew he would come under the microscope.

and yet in the interview in the book he didn’t seem combative. That was the ex wife who came across as suspicious and wanting to hide.