Undoing

[UKGuy]

good point,why is she seemingly blocking LE from considering any thought of abuse from her own family?
she mentioned that they called FW "Mr Mom",and he brought her underwear home in a bag once,yet she doesn't mention him,or any other person,in her supposed talk w. JB in the interview.

JMO8778,
Because she knows these are the only people to be suspects.

Then the investigators tell her, although you should really already know, but someone was actively molesting JonBenet.

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[UKGuy]

That's true, UKGuy, Patsy does have a record of lying and telling interviewers whatever she thinks will make her sound like a great mom. We can't assume she's telling the truth because she's speaking. JB seemed to have no problem requesting help wiping her "lady parts" for all the talks Patsy apparently gave her about not letting anyone touch her there.

Ugh, with Dr Beuf if Mommy is in the room...poor JB shouldn't have had to tolerate a doctor inspecting her genitals as often as she had to. 5 or 6 vaginal exams between the ages of 3 and 6...tch tch, I cannot name one other little girl I know who has had to go through that much examination of the genital/vaginal area at such a young age. Most little girls have no idea they even have a vagina, because they never have to experience itching or irritation in it. What the hell was going on in JonBenet's life???

Nuisanceposter,
Sure, JonBenet appeared to have no personal boundaries, this is consistent with sexual abuse, particularly at her age, then there is her sharing Burke's bed, all with Patsy's approval. Consider JonBenet's pageant sexualization, the pouts, the turns, the wiggles, along with makeup, again with Patsy's explicit approval.

Ironically Dr Beuf examining JonBenet may not have been as traumatising as her chronic abuse?


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[JMO8778]

JMO8778,
Because she knows these are the only people to be suspects.

Then the investigators tell her, although you should really already know, but someone was actively molesting JonBenet.

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I know,and I'd say at least one of them was actively molesting her.And I can't see why she'd tell her that JR shouldn't wipe her,if she isn't available to.But it's odd she concentrates on those 3 only,and doesn't mention FW or anyone else.
My only other thought there is that she omitted the only other male that was sometimes in the house....JAR.was she trying to cast some suspicion his way? I wonder if the results of the suitcase were known at the time of this questioning?

 

[Ames]

Ames- Thanks for posting that for me. I know it takes a long time to read the interviews, and sometimes even longer for things to soak in to my brain. Perhaps I will have time this weekend to absorb more.

You are welcome!!! I copied and pasted her interview onto a WORD document, and it was around 400 pages long. So, unless you have alot of time to kill, then I suggest you not get involved with it, because you will get wrapped up in the lies, and inconsistancies, and you will not want to stop reading...and then before you know it, your whole day is shot. LOL I tried to read a little bit at a time, but that didn't work for me....I got pulled into it farther and farther..and before I knew it, both of my kids were asleep on the couch, and it was after midnight, it took me FOREVER to read.

 

[Ames]

Ames,

This is what Patsy alleges she told JonBenet, we have no way of knowing if this is factual or simply fabricated after her death?

e.g. What did Mommy say to JonBenet about other people wiping her down, what did she say to her about her requesting to be wiped down, did JonBenet ever ask if it was ok if Fleet White wiped her down and changed her underwear, also what did she say about displaying those private areas at pageants?


Not daddy, not Burke, not grampa, mmm that I do not believe, since these guys are all on the suspect list, why no mention of Fleet White, Priscilla, Susan Stine, LHP, or anyone one else who may be requested to deal with one of JonBenet's toilet incidents?

Why does Patsy consider her own family so undeserving with the trust of JonBenet?


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I do have to admit, that after I posted this part, (not daddy, not Burke....) that I had to go back and read it again. You are absolutely right, that this could have just been another lie that Patsy made up after the fact. I do not believe that Burke inserted anything into JB, even if they were playing DR. And what exactly did the housekeeper mean by that, anyway? Were they naked? Was he performing a gynecological exam on her? Or was it innocent? Even IF they had of been playing dr, and had been naked, I just can't imagine Burke sticking something inside of her, enough to do damage, and JB just lying there and letting him do it, and then later not telling her parents. I DID catch that part though....the last parargraph of your post..where she names family members, but leaves everybody else out. I did think that was odd, that's the part that I had to go back and re-read, because I thought it was strange. Although, I have my doubts about BURKE inserting something into JB vaginally....I wouldn't put it past JOHN or Grandpa Paugh....and that...imo...is probably why she named them specifically, and left out friends such as Fleet, or any other male...and just named family members. I believe that she knew more than she let on.

 

[JMO8778]

I do have to admit, that after I posted this part, (not daddy, not Burke....) that I had to go back and read it again. You are absolutely right, that this could have just been another lie that Patsy made up after the fact.

right,I think Patsy felt safe saying pretty much anything in regards to JB,as JB is not here to refute it.
Ames,did this come bf the part where she is confronted w. the sexual abuse?

 

[DeeDee249]

Despite PR's statements about explaining improper touch to her daughter, when told by LE that the forensic reports showed that JBR had been molested, her repsonse was not be alarmed, horrified, heartbroken...but to be defensive- asking "You show me where it says that!"

Yet both parents admittedly never read the autopsy- where it DID say that.

Then again, as Nedra put it so eloquently- she had only been a "little bit molested".

 

[UKGuy]

I know,and I'd say at least one of them was actively molesting her.And I can't see why she'd tell her that JR shouldn't wipe her,if she isn't available to.But it's odd she concentrates on those 3 only,and doesn't mention FW or anyone else.
My only other thought there is that she omitted the only other male that was sometimes in the house....JAR.was she trying to cast some suspicion his way? I wonder if the results of the suitcase were known at the time of this questioning?

JMO8778,

But it's odd she concentrates on those 3 only,and doesn't mention FW or anyone else.

Patsy is probably thinking ahead, or has been given advice, since by excluding them, this line of questioning in court can be answered with the line, I would know, since I told JonBenet to tell me if enyone ever touched her, since no male famly members were allowed to, does that not sound invented? Then there is the public defense of John against allegations of sexual molestation, on the grounds that nedra slept in the same room?

Note how Patsy is attempting to represent herself as protecting JonBenet from sexual abuse, yet consider her response when she is told, we have evidence that JonBenet was chronically molested!

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[UKGuy]

I do have to admit, that after I posted this part, (not daddy, not Burke....) that I had to go back and read it again. You are absolutely right, that this could have just been another lie that Patsy made up after the fact. I do not believe that Burke inserted anything into JB, even if they were playing DR. And what exactly did the housekeeper mean by that, anyway? Were they naked? Was he performing a gynecological exam on her? Or was it innocent? Even IF they had of been playing dr, and had been naked, I just can't imagine Burke sticking something inside of her, enough to do damage, and JB just lying there and letting him do it, and then later not telling her parents. I DID catch that part though....the last parargraph of your post..where she names family members, but leaves everybody else out. I did think that was odd, that's the part that I had to go back and re-read, because I thought it was strange. Although, I have my doubts about BURKE inserting something into JB vaginally....I wouldn't put it past JOHN or Grandpa Paugh....and that...imo...is probably why she named them specifically, and left out friends such as Fleet, or any other male...and just named family members. I believe that she knew more than she let on.

Ames,
JonBenet may have shared a bed with Burke quite innocently, simply sleeping, they may also have played doctors, whatever that entailed, but my understanding is that on many an occassion it would be JonBenet that took the decision to share, possibly because she had wet her bed?

1 was kind of a --
2 TOM HANEY: Did she raise any
3 questions about that at the time or any time
4 since?
5 PATSY RAMSEY:No.
6 TOM HANEY: It was pretty clear to
7 her?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
9 TOM HANEY: And your rules were you
10 or Dr. Buff, if you were in the room?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: Correct.

The investigators were aware when she was asked this that JonBenet had been chronically molested, this would be the likely factor behind this line of questioning. This would be sensasional stuff in a court room, with the prosecutor saying

Mrs Ramsey can I refer you to your answers regarding touching to Det. Tom Haney, you have a copy in front of you. The pathological examination of JonBenet along with the expert evidence of Dr. Blah Blah suggest JonBenet suffered chronic sexual abuse, prior to the night of her death. Now if as you replied that JonBenet understood clearly that nobody was allowed to touch her private parts, unless you were present and that she never raised any further questions on this matter, whom do you think in retrospect was molesting her, was it an intruder?

I believe that she knew more than she let on.

Self evidently this appears to be the case.

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[JMO8778]

Despite PR's statements about explaining improper touch to her daughter, when told by LE that the forensic reports showed that JBR had been molested, her repsonse was not be alarmed, horrified, heartbroken...but to be defensive- asking "You show me where it says that!"

Yet both parents admittedly never read the autopsy- where it DID say that.

Then again, as Nedra put it so eloquently- she had only been a "little bit molested".

I wonder if they DID read the autopsy? I know it would be hard,but they would likely want to be informed so as to be able to dispute or explain whatever they could.

 

[JMO8778]

JMO8778,

Patsy is probably thinking ahead, or has been given advice, since by excluding them, this line of questioning in court can be answered with the line, I would know, since I told JonBenet to tell me if enyone ever touched her, since no male famly members were allowed to, does that not sound invented? Then there is the public defense of John against allegations of sexual molestation, on the grounds that nedra slept in the same room?

Note how Patsy is attempting to represent herself as protecting JonBenet from sexual abuse, yet consider her response when she is told, we have evidence that JonBenet was chronically molested!

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yes,it sounds 100% invented.it sounds like the lawyer had told her exactly how to answer those q's.

 

[Ames]

right,I think Patsy felt safe saying pretty much anything in regards to JB,as JB is not here to refute it.
Ames,did this come bf the part where she is confronted w. the sexual abuse?

Yeah it did...

 

[Ames]

Ames,
JonBenet may have shared a bed with Burke quite innocently, simply sleeping, they may also have played doctors, whatever that entailed, but my understanding is that on many an occassion it would be JonBenet that took the decision to share, possibly because she had wet her bed?

Yeah, that is the reason that she slept in his room, I think that I remember reading that in Patsy's interview where she said that was the reason. I thought that Burke had twin beds in his room just like JB did, I don't know if I have seen the picture, or if that is in the interview. I just can't remember. But, if that's the case, then she possibly slept in the other bed.


The investigators were aware when she was asked this that JonBenet had been chronically molested, this would be the likely factor behind this line of questioning. This would be sensasional stuff in a court room, with the prosecutor saying

Mrs Ramsey can I refer you to your answers regarding touching to Det. Tom Haney, you have a copy in front of you. The pathological examination of JonBenet along with the expert evidence of Dr. Blah Blah suggest JonBenet suffered chronic sexual abuse, prior to the night of her death. Now if as you replied that JonBenet understood clearly that nobody was allowed to touch her private parts, unless you were present and that she never raised any further questions on this matter, whom do you think in retrospect was molesting her, was it an intruder?


Self evidently this appears to be the case.

.[/quote]

I believe that John may have been, but...I just don't believe that Burke...even if they DID play dr. would have inserted something into her, and have done damage, and that she just sat there and let him do it, and didn't tell.

 

[JMO8778]

Yeah it did...

she really was covering herself bf the fact then,what with those odd answers...it's like she knew what was coming..

 

[JMO8778]

Ames,
JonBenet may have shared a bed with Burke quite innocently, simply sleeping, they may also have played doctors, whatever that entailed, but my understanding is that on many an occassion it would be JonBenet that took the decision to share, possibly because she had wet her bed?


The investigators were aware when she was asked this that JonBenet had been chronically molested, this would be the likely factor behind this line of questioning. This would be sensasional stuff in a court room, with the prosecutor saying

Mrs Ramsey can I refer you to your answers regarding touching to Det. Tom Haney, you have a copy in front of you. The pathological examination of JonBenet along with the expert evidence of Dr. Blah Blah suggest JonBenet suffered chronic sexual abuse, prior to the night of her death. Now if as you replied that JonBenet understood clearly that nobody was allowed to touch her private parts, unless you were present and that she never raised any further questions on this matter, whom do you think in retrospect was molesting her, was it an intruder?


Self evidently this appears to be the case.

.

well,she failed to name JAR in that list...and she even covered Dr Beuf....so I think that's odd,as JAR did live in the house w/ them at times.
were the contents of the suitcase and the results known at that time,does anyone know?

 

[Ames]

Ames,

LHP is on record suggesting she walked in on Burke and JonBenet playing doctors, also Burke and JonBenet regularly shared his bed, the nights leading up to xmas were an example, Patsy states this in one of her interviews.


That is, it is highly likely that Patsy was aware that Burke and JonBenet played doctors, she condoned the bed sharing?

Just another example of the dysfunctional Ramsey family life.


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From Patsy's 97 Interview...

TT: Okay. Do you have an idea if JonBenet moved over towards Burke’s room at all that night. Slept in his room?
PR: Um, I can’t remember, can’t remember.
TT: Okay. Is that something that she would normally do?
PR: No.
TT: Sleep in Burke’s room. I know everybody’s got, you got, they both have two beds in their rooms.
PR: Yeah, right um, I don’t think so. I just can’t remember.

Here she is saying that they both had TWO beds in their room, but that she cannot remember if JB slept in Burkes room on Christmas night, or not. Which I think is BS...she would have remembered that.

 

[DeeDee249]

I know I have read they were asked about whether they had seen the autopsy photos, and I THINK it was when they were on Larry King. He asked them if they had read it and they quite emphatically said they had NOT, and would never read it. Then Larry King asked them "You mean you don't know how your daughter died?" They replied "Well, we do."

 

[DeeDee249]

And I know there was an interview where PR said that JBR did sometimes go into BR's room if she had wet her own bed. Now, that must have felt pretty crummy to BR, as SHE would be wet. I do not recall if the wording specified BR's BED or just his room, which could also mean the extra bed in his room. I don't know why JBR just wouldn't have gone into the extra bed in her own room, unless it was not made up with sheets or had too much crap on it. I don't recall seeing if either of the R children had many sleepover guests, which to me is the reason you'd put an extra bed in a child's room. My own daughter always had a daybed with a pop-up trundle after she went from a crib to a bed. She was an only child, and she always had sleepovers.

 

[Ames]

And I know there was an interview where PR said that JBR did sometimes go into BR's room if she had wet her own bed. Now, that must have felt pretty crummy to BR, as SHE would be wet. I do not recall if the wording specified BR's BED or just his room, which could also mean the extra bed in his room. I don't know why JBR just wouldn't have gone into the extra bed in her own room, unless it was not made up with sheets or had too much crap on it. I don't recall seeing if either of the R children had many sleepover guests, which to me is the reason you'd put an extra bed in a child's room. My own daughter always had a daybed with a pop-up trundle after she went from a crib to a bed. She was an only child, and she always had sleepovers.

LOL, that would be MY guess...she didn't go to her own empty bed in her room, because it had way too much crap on it. Looks like Patsy would have cleared that stuff off, so that JB could use it if she needed to. When my husband was growing up, he had two twin beds in his room, and as far as I know...he never had sleepovers, because...well...he was a boy, and as far as I know, boys don't have sleepovers. I think that's just a girl thing. I could be wrong though, I only have girls.

 

[UKGuy]

From Patsy's 97 Interview...

TT: Okay. Do you have an idea if JonBenet moved over towards Burke’s room at all that night. Slept in his room?
PR: Um, I can’t remember, can’t remember.
TT: Okay. Is that something that she would normally do?
PR: No.
TT: Sleep in Burke’s room. I know everybody’s got, you got, they both have two beds in their rooms.
PR: Yeah, right um, I don’t think so. I just can’t remember.

Here she is saying that they both had TWO beds in their room, but that she cannot remember if JB slept in Burkes room on Christmas night, or not. Which I think is BS...she would have remembered that.

Ames,
There is another interview somewhere where Patsy states Burke and JonBenet, shared a bed, just prior to xmas I think? She also adds it was not uncommon. Also although there are two beds it does not follow both were used?

What is more relevant is that Patsy condoned this!


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