GUILTY UT - Michele MacNeill, 50, found dead in bathtub, Pleasant Grove, 11 April 2007 - #2

[Bravo]

I agree with you. I too struggled w/ the requisites that I found uninteresting.

I think his testimony coupled w/ the testimony of the two people who testified that drugs were prescribed to Michele only after a specific request by Martin MacNeill will be compelling.

I think he has made the point that while each one of the drugs, in the concentration he identified, would not be toxic, in combination there is a high probability of adverse even lethal reaction.

Yes I hear ya lol. I believe the levels were likely much higher than what the test showed. There was a time lapse. How long I don't know but I do believe the amt. was much higher. IMO Marty mixed it in her food. In my work I mainly deal with Psychotropic drugs. Yet familiar with many of the meds mentioned. Limited but familiar.

 

[seattlechiquita]

This is big to me.. What adult wants liquid meds???

I had clonazepam in drops. One less pill to swallow.

 

[ziggy]

The defense attorney looks like Charles Martin Smith with less of a chin. He was Terry in American Graffiti.

 

[Bravo]

Jumping off your post. Something has struck me odd. For Michelle to have drowned, and no signs of struggle on her part or on MM, Michelle must have been almost comatose with severe respiratory depression.

Try holding your breath for as long as you can. You can't hold it for long as it is an autonomic reflex, a brain stem function. Something is very strange here that, as reported so far, does not make a lot of sense, medically or logically.

What am I missing?

I think the Jurors can connect the dots. Eventually. There is a time period which Marty's whereabouts are not accounted for. IMO he drugged Michele. Came home from the Safety Fair. Put her in the tub and shoved her face under the water. Staged it from there.

 

[ziggy]

I had clonazepam in drops. One less pill to swallow.

Was it bitter?

 

[Nymeria]

LMAO I'm glad he mentioned Phenegran (sp?) being prescribed for Allergies. I recognized the name as a drug my Allergist had me take many years ago. What I do remember was I stopped taking it. It dried up every orifice. And I mean every orifice :scared: It was a horrid feeling.

YIKES!

 

[Ina Cognito]

Yes, the Lortab was in liquid and pill form if I remember correctly. She only got a suppository just after her surgery, while in recovery. I know one thing, my pain mang doc would have more than a fit if he had a patient come to him taking lortab, percocet, valium and ambian.... more than a fit. You just do not typically do this these days but, this was 2007. That combo is very, very dangerous. There are many accidental ODs due to such meds being mixed like that. I totally do not understand the prescribing of both Percocet AND Lortab at the same time, that's very odd.

 

[minor4th]

he also got one of the scripts filled in liquid form, I believe

He just got one in liquid form - the Lortab. It's conceivable that he poured a bunch of it in a drink for her at some time that morning.

ETA: Oops - I misread your post and thought you said he got all the meds in liquid form.

 

[Ina Cognito]

BTW for those less familar Lortab is essentially Vicodin. It's the same meds hydrocodone and acetominophen. They're just two different name brands. Why would a doctor give someone percocet and vicodin at the same time?

 

[Ina Cognito]

OT but I've no idea why I cannot access the smilies anymore When I click the "more" button my browser just opens this same window again, I miss my smiles.

Carry on..

 

[minor4th]

Yes, the Lortab was in liquid and pill form if I remember correctly. She only got a suppository just after her surgery, while in recovery. I know one thing, my pain mang doc would have more than a fit if he had a patient come to him taking lortab, percocet, valium and ambian.... more than a fit. You just do not typically do this these days but, this was 2007. That combo is very, very dangerous. There are many accidental ODs due to such meds being mixed like that. I totally do not understand the prescribing of both Percocet AND Lortab at the same time, that's very odd.

Percocet was in pill form, Lortab was in liquid form. The doc prescribed them as alternatives, not to be taken together. The Lortab liquid was, according to what Martin told the doc, in case she had trouble swallowing the percocet.

 

[Italy]

Is it correct that Michelle was taking medication for an irregular heart rhythm? Perhaps the heart meds were in capsule form & the narcotics were substituted for the heart drug.

As I recall, "distraught" Marty was saying that he was worried she hadn't been taking her heart medication and that was why she "had to die".

 

[minor4th]

Jumping off your post. Something has struck me odd. For Michelle to have drowned, and no signs of struggle on her part or on MM, Michelle must have been almost comatose with severe respiratory depression.

Try holding your breath for as long as you can. You can't hold it for long as it is an autonomic reflex, a brain stem function. Something is very strange here that, as reported so far, does not make a lot of sense, medically or logically.

What am I missing?

I agree with you completely. I'm having a hard time coming up with a scenario that makes sense.

 

[minor4th]

Is it correct that Michelle was taking medication for an irregular heart rhythm? Perhaps the heart meds were in capsule form & the narcotics were substituted for the heart drug.

As I recall, "distraught" Marty was saying that he was worried she hadn't been taking her heart medication and that was why she "had to die".

I don't think she was on heart medication. If so, it was a blood pressure medicine that had been prescribed just a week prior by the doc who did her pre-surgery exam.

 

[Ina Cognito]

Percocet was in pill form, Lortab was in liquid form. The doc prescribed them as alternatives, not to be taken together. The Lortab liquid was, according to what Martin told the doc, in case she had trouble swallowing the percocet.

I know my post sounded odd but I swear the doctor remarked giving both a liquid and a pill script for the Lortab... very, very weird. I'd have to watch the testimony back so I won't bet on it but that was my recollection.

 

[minor4th]

Jumping off your post. Something has struck me odd. For Michelle to have drowned, and no signs of struggle on her part or on MM, Michelle must have been almost comatose with severe respiratory depression.

Try holding your breath for as long as you can. You can't hold it for long as it is an autonomic reflex, a brain stem function. Something is very strange here that, as reported so far, does not make a lot of sense, medically or logically.

What am I missing?

Oh, he could have suffocated her and then put her in the bathtub to make it look like an accidental drowning? Somehow she got all of those drugs in her that morning, and somehow her death was accomplished without any signs of a fight on Martin or Michele.

 

[Bravo]

What time did they say they would be back? I didn't catch it.

 

[popsicle]

I know my post sounded odd but I swear the doctor remarked giving both a liquid and a pill script for the Lortab... very, very weird. I'd have to watch the testimony back so I won't bet on it but that was my recollection.

I think so too.

 

[minor4th]

I know my post sounded odd but I swear the doctor remarked giving both a liquid and a pill script for the Lortab... very, very weird. I'd have to watch the testimony back so I won't bet on it but that was my recollection.

You may be right, so if you watch again let me know what you find. I do know that the excuse given by Martin for wanting the additional liquid medication was in case she had trouble swallowing the pills. It's even more damning if he got liquid and pill form of Lortab ...and yeah why would a doctor prescribe pills for both Lortab and Percoset?

ETA: I'm going to try to find that part of the testimony in the WAT archives. Will let you know ...

 

[fifteen89]

Yeah, so here's the takeaway from this witness' testimony, and I hope this jury gets it:

1. Michele had all of the drugs in her system, from a blood sample drawn 24 hours after her death

2. The combination of drugs would cause an additive sedative effect.

3. The ambien alone would be enough to put her to sleep, the other medications would enhance that effect.

4. Even if the drug cocktail wouldnt render her completely unconscious, she would at the very least be impaired and sedated

5. He can't accurately determine or analyze the amounts of the drugs in her blood because it was drawn 24 hours after her death.

Has cross happened already? (Please?!) Were they able to make any good points?