GUILTY UT - Michele MacNeill, 50, found dead in bathtub, Pleasant Grove, 11 April 2007 - #3

[Ina Cognito]

In regard to the many suggestions of influence in this case, we all know it has probably happened however, it doesn't change the toxicology, the autopsy, the doctor statements, Martin's statements, Martin's discusting actions etc. To me it's typical in such a case to have the defense holler and claim "taint" as well as claim that one person convienced others, that's typical and expected. In this circumstancial case it's probably going to come down to whom the jury believes.... the girls and the prosecution? Or Martin MacNeill (the mormon who cheated on his wife twice, moved his mistress into the house a very short time after the death of his wife, whos mistress attended his wife's funeral and so on) There is no smoking gun so it will be a matter of believeability and what makes sense. The large problem here is the autopsy and causes of death.... I hope the state is on their toes for the ME and can knit this together for the jury.

 

[Ricki]

While I am not sympathetic to the defendant, Alexis at times put her hands to her throat which is a sign that she may be being less than truthful. She's incredibly strong, but at the same time, I'm not at all convinced that she didn't do a bit of concocting. I'm certain this is not going to be a popular opinion, but the "star" witness can not afford to be viewed as less than impeccable in such a circumstantial case.

You are right about them having to be impeccable and I hope those gestures are just innocent. Your view is important and it is good to have many different eyes on the proceedings.

 

[Ina Cognito]

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

No Candy Crush??

The judge plays Candy Crush. No, really! He sent me a few requests earlier, I sent him some lives

 

[minor4th]

I missed Alexis' direct testimony but got to see cross examination, and here are my thoughts: Alexis came off better than I had anticipated. She was courteous and forthright in her answers with Spencer. She was not defensive or argumentative. Those things boost her credibility.

On the other hand I have some doubt about the logs and whether or not Alexis added info after the fact, maybe based on her memory. I also have doubt about whether Michele really said "If something happens to me, make sure it was not your father." And apparently Alexis did say at the funeral that Michele had been feeling a little sick -- that contradicts her other statements, and I'm not sure what to make if it.

Hate to say this, but there are a couple of things that point away from Martin's guilt. There was no Lortab in Michele's system, and that was in liquid form so it would have been pretty easy for Martin to use that in a cocktail if he was intentionally trying to overdose Michele. There was also no phenergan in her system - but that was a suppository and it would have been hard to sneak that into food or drink. So the drugs that were in her system were basically the drugs that the doctor normally prescribed + Valium. The question remains why would Michele have taken ambien in the morning?

 

[Leilei]

The judge plays Candy Crush. No, really! He sent me a few requests earlier, I sent him some lives

No wonder he's so cranky :scared:

 

[Ina Cognito]

I missed Alexis' direct testimony but got to see cross examination, and here are my thoughts: Alexis came off better than I had anticipated. She was courteous and forthright in her answers with Spencer. She was not defensive or argumentative. Those things boost her credibility.

On the other hand I have some doubt about the logs and whether or not Alexis added info after the fact, maybe based on her memory. I also have doubt about whether Michele really said "If something happens to me, make sure it was not your father." And apparently Alexis did say at the funeral that Michele had been feeling a little sick -- that contradicts her other statements, and I'm not sure what to make if it.

Hate to say this, but there are a couple of things that point away from Martin's guilt. There was no Lortab in Michele's system, and that was in liquid form so it would have been pretty easy for Martin to use that in a cocktail if he was intentionally trying to overdose Michele. There was also no phenergan in her system - but that was a suppository and it would have been hard to sneak that into food or drink. So the drugs that were in her system were basically the drugs that the doctor normally prescribed + Valium. The question remains why would Michele have taken ambien in the morning?

I believe they spoke about the phenergan this morning before the jury entered, it was present if I remember right what they were saying (They stated they misunderstood something on the report)

We can't possibly know what happened that morning of course but isn't it possible MM heavily pressured her to take the meds? The Ambien cannot be explained... unless she didn't know what it was. Lots of questions in this case... unfortunately lots of questions lead to reasonable doubt

 

[Ina Cognito]

Gotta go make dinner guys, see you all in the AM

 

[Ina Cognito]

Wait, I just had a thought... Since Michele was feeling better wouldn't she bee the person opening and taking her medications? What if Martin switched the pills around into different bottles? Would Michele have noticed that? Or simply just opened the bottle and taken what she was supposed to take (steriod and antibiotic)

 

[minor4th]

I believe they spoke about the phenergan this morning before the jury entered, it was present if I remember right what they were saying (They stated they misunderstood something on the report)

We can't possibly know what happened that morning of course but isn't it possible MM heavily pressured her to take the meds? The Ambien cannot be explained... unless she didn't know what it was. Lots of questions in this case... unfortunately lots of questions lead to reasonable doubt

I saw the discussion this morning about the phenergan and whether or not to recall Dr Darwin (?). They were saying there was no phenergan, which really means nothing because Martin couldn't have snuck that in her food or drink. In fact if phenergan had been present, I think it would tend to indicate Michele took the meds of her own volition.

 

[mytime]

Did anybody see anything beneficial from Vanessa or Sabrina's testimony??

I think they have enough circumstantial evidence but aren't putting on a good case. Sadly, I don't think they are going to get a conviction.

 

[Norwegian]

Left to right: Rachel, Sabrina, Alexis, Damian, Noelle/Giselle, Elle, Vanessa, Ada
In front: Michele and MM

Michele and MM in an Ukrainian orphanage
The girl on Michelle's right is the girl who's referring to herself as Noelle in SM (social media)

According to Desert News this is: Sabrina, Giselle, Elle, with Ada in the back.

So I'm confused.

But I'm guessing they adopted Giselle, Noelle, Elle and Sabrina from the Ukraine. And Noelle's adoption was later "cancelled."

They they adopted grand daugter Ada.

And there's just confusion in media if there were 4 or 5 adoptions and at first everyone counted Ada as adopted from the Ukraine, too.

Noelle, Elle and Ada is in the small picture, under.
My guess is that Noelle was with the MacNeill family for some time, but by the time Michele died she wasn't anymore?

 

[mytime]

Wait, I just had a thought... Since Michele was feeling better wouldn't she bee the person opening and taking her medications? What if Martin switched the pills around into different bottles? Would Michele have noticed that? Or simply just opened the bottle and taken what she was supposed to take (steriod and antibiotic)

He could have put it in her food or drink???

 

[Ina Cognito]

He was a handsome man, was...

 

[Tulessa]

Poor Alexis......

Just think of everything going on in her life....

Twins
Husband
Murder trial of her mother
Caring for her sisters. Ada is only 12.
Her school/ job
Forcible Sex charges against Martin
Executor of her mothers estate

And I am sure I have missed plenty that I am not privy too. I hope she takes some needed time for herself.

Come again? :thud:

 

[Dmacky]

Left to right: Rachel, Sabrina, Alexis, Damian, Noelle/Giselle, Elle, Vanessa, Ada
In front: Michele and MM

Michele and MM in an Ukrainian orphanage
The girl on Michelle's right is the girl who's referring to herself as Noelle in SM (social media)

According to Desert News this is: Sabrina, Giselle, Elle, with Ada in the back.

So I'm confused.

But I'm guessing they adopted Giselle, Noelle, Elle and Sabrina from the Ukraine. And Noelle's adoption was later "cancelled."

They they adopted grand daugter Ada.

And there's just confusion in media if there were 4 or 5 adoptions and at first everyone counted Ada as adopted from the Ukraine, too.

Great pictures as always Nor, now is that Giselle/Noelle in the glasses and orange outfit?

 

[Norwegian]

Come again? :thud:

Yes. After Michele died he tried to have sex with her twice. Now he claims he thought Alexis was Michele.

So at least, he is admitting to have done it. But of course, he has an excuse.

 

[Nore]

Some areas the defense lawyer was a little slow on with Alexis today? Is he smoking something? He was slow with all of it with Alexis today.

MOO

---------
Hi, is he trying to draw today out?, he's asked some questions twice. I missed what the Judge said.. :seeya:

 

[Norwegian]

Great pictures as always Nor, now is that Giselle/Noelle in the glasses and orange outfit?

Yes, I think that would be Giselle. I don't see any resemblance to the girl calling herself Noelle, really.

But, Ada is really young in both the picture with Noelle and the family picture with Giselle. So it seems they must have been there at the same time at some time.

Just never pictures together. Strange.

 

[Leilei]

Yes. After Michele died he tried to have sex with her twice. Now he claims he thought Alexis was Michele.

So at least, he is admitting to have done it. But of course, he has an excuse.

I didn't know it was twice. How on earth... why on earth... and after Michele died?

I have so many words for him, words that would make my sailor sons blush, but I'm sitting on my hands.

 

[minor4th]

Against Alexis, just a few months before her moms death I believe. Sorry, I don't have a link.

In the months following her mon's death. Martin admitted it in a recorder phone call with Alexis.

The trial is stayed until after this trial is concluded.