Not sure about wages for delivering papers back in the 60s, but paperboys did get tips. So what they ended up with would depend on the generosity of their customers and how many they had. I imagine many people knew Reed from his paper route.
UT UT - Reed Jeppson, 15, Salt Lake City, 11 Oct 1964
- Thread starter SheWhoMustNotBeNamed
- Start date
I think about the above statement as well,
So many articles saying different contradictory things! For me it boils down to two likely outcomes. contingent on whether Reed took his $60 savings account money with him? And even if he did, why would he leave his paper route money at home? Why not take all his money?
1.) If Reed took money with him intending to meet someone, he most likely met with foul play.
2.) If Reed only took the dogs for a walk. I lean more towards an accident.
3.) It is possible that Reed could have met up with an accident before meeting the party(s) involved with the transaction.
4.) Still wishing that the friend who claimed to see Reed behind the school would have come forward with more information, if known.
5.) Need to hear from classmates, LE, any other surviving people who remember the day and investigation.
6.) Over time, the family had different theories about what happened to Reed. But are 1000% convinced, as I am that he did not run away, nor commit suicide. Something terrible happened to him.
Happy New Year! Thinking of you Reed, wherever you are, you will always be loved, and remembered!
Satch
Hi everyone! Love everyone's dedication here....it really gets to me that this beautiful soul is still unfound. I just wanted to make a few observations based on everything I have read.
1) Regarding the distance and time it would take to walk from Browning Avenue to St Mary of The Wasatch school, according to Google Maps it would be approximately 40 mins to walk. I personally think it would be quicker, the distance is about the same as I walk to work everyday and it takes me 15-20 mins (and I am 40!) However, back then I believe that there were many fewer houses and roads as you got closer to the school and so Reed could probably just walk across open country and not need to follow the roads which would make it much quicker. In this case, if the sighting at the school was correct, I think it is not impossible that he could have made it there and intended to be back in "about thirty mins" ...I doubt he was being overly specific when he told his sister half-an-hour.
2)I can't work out if Reed was going to feed or walk the dogs. I've read alot and I'm still none the wiser...IF he was only going to feed the dogs then that means he disappeared in the vicinity of his home. I am assuming the dogs were kept somewhere in the back yard of the property, which seemed to have a lot of land out back. Assuming that when he fed the dogs he also let them out for a run....this makes me think that Emigration Creek could be a more significant place to be searching. It runs right round the back of Reed's house. What was it like in October, was there alot of water, any danger spots? @chart75 can you help with this? What was the creek like, could someone feasably have an accident or get abducted from the creek area behind the Jeppson's house?
3) If an abduction, rightly it has been said that taking a young man and 2 dogs would be pretty difficult. That's true, but not impossible. There was a case in the 70's in the UK where, twice, a man managed to force 2 teen aged boys into his car, rape them and murder them at the same time. His only weapon was an old bit of pipe. I think if Reed willingly went with someone then the dogs would also follow. I can see how if Reed was not willing then it may be more difficult, but still not impossible; someone may have already killed the dogs if they were running far ahead and by the time Reed caught up with them they are no longer an obstacle to any would be abductor. I don't think we should be so quick to dismiss the abduction theory just because of the dogs.
I was hoping that as I got further through the comments there would be a post from either a moderator, a LE official or someone close to the case....it didn't happen
I do hope we can evetually get someone to come and answer a few of the annoying dicrepancies and clear up the misunderstandings.
1) Regarding the distance and time it would take to walk from Browning Avenue to St Mary of The Wasatch school, according to Google Maps it would be approximately 40 mins to walk. I personally think it would be quicker, the distance is about the same as I walk to work everyday and it takes me 15-20 mins (and I am 40!) However, back then I believe that there were many fewer houses and roads as you got closer to the school and so Reed could probably just walk across open country and not need to follow the roads which would make it much quicker. In this case, if the sighting at the school was correct, I think it is not impossible that he could have made it there and intended to be back in "about thirty mins" ...I doubt he was being overly specific when he told his sister half-an-hour.
2)I can't work out if Reed was going to feed or walk the dogs. I've read alot and I'm still none the wiser...IF he was only going to feed the dogs then that means he disappeared in the vicinity of his home. I am assuming the dogs were kept somewhere in the back yard of the property, which seemed to have a lot of land out back. Assuming that when he fed the dogs he also let them out for a run....this makes me think that Emigration Creek could be a more significant place to be searching. It runs right round the back of Reed's house. What was it like in October, was there alot of water, any danger spots? @chart75 can you help with this? What was the creek like, could someone feasably have an accident or get abducted from the creek area behind the Jeppson's house?
3) If an abduction, rightly it has been said that taking a young man and 2 dogs would be pretty difficult. That's true, but not impossible. There was a case in the 70's in the UK where, twice, a man managed to force 2 teen aged boys into his car, rape them and murder them at the same time. His only weapon was an old bit of pipe. I think if Reed willingly went with someone then the dogs would also follow. I can see how if Reed was not willing then it may be more difficult, but still not impossible; someone may have already killed the dogs if they were running far ahead and by the time Reed caught up with them they are no longer an obstacle to any would be abductor. I don't think we should be so quick to dismiss the abduction theory just because of the dogs.
I was hoping that as I got further through the comments there would be a post from either a moderator, a LE official or someone close to the case....it didn't happen
I do hope we can evetually get someone to come and answer a few of the annoying dicrepancies and clear up the misunderstandings.Oh and just another question I'm not sire if anyone can answer. Sorry if it is too graphic. Would Reed's braces still be in situ, or woukd they break down and decompose. I know they are metal so would they be able to be picked up by a metal detector? Or would they be too small to be detected? That could be an angle that nobody has explored?
Regarding #2:Hi everyone! Love everyone's dedication here....it really gets to me that this beautiful soul is still unfound. I just wanted to make a few observations based on everything I have read.
1) Regarding the distance and time it would take to walk from Browning Avenue to St Mary of The Wasatch school, according to Google Maps it would be approximately 40 mins to walk. I personally think it would be quicker, the distance is about the same as I walk to work everyday and it takes me 15-20 mins (and I am 40!) However, back then I believe that there were many fewer houses and roads as you got closer to the school and so Reed could probably just walk across open country and not need to follow the roads which would make it much quicker. In this case, if the sighting at the school was correct, I think it is not impossible that he could have made it there and intended to be back in "about thirty mins" ...I doubt he was being overly specific when he told his sister half-an-hour.
2)I can't work out if Reed was going to feed or walk the dogs. I've read alot and I'm still none the wiser...IF he was only going to feed the dogs then that means he disappeared in the vicinity of his home. I am assuming the dogs were kept somewhere in the back yard of the property, which seemed to have a lot of land out back. Assuming that when he fed the dogs he also let them out for a run....this makes me think that Emigration Creek could be a more significant place to be searching. It runs right round the back of Reed's house. What was it like in October, was there alot of water, any danger spots? @chart75 can you help with this? What was the creek like, could someone feasably have an accident or get abducted from the creek area behind the Jeppson's house?
3) If an abduction, rightly it has been said that taking a young man and 2 dogs would be pretty difficult. That's true, but not impossible. There was a case in the 70's in the UK where, twice, a man managed to force 2 teen aged boys into his car, rape them and murder them at the same time. His only weapon was an old bit of pipe. I think if Reed willingly went with someone then the dogs would also follow. I can see how if Reed was not willing then it may be more difficult, but still not impossible; someone may have already killed the dogs if they were running far ahead and by the time Reed caught up with them they are no longer an obstacle to any would be abductor. I don't think we should be so quick to dismiss the abduction theory just because of the dogs.
I was hoping that as I got further through the comments there would be a post from either a moderator, a LE official or someone close to the case....it didn't happen
Reed's sister remembers Reed coming into the kitchen and opening up a can of dog food, and she remembers him saying, "I'm going to feed the dogs." She says, "Hurry back, we're going to have dinner in half an hour." Reed says, "Oh, I'll be right back." Goes out the door and is never seen or heard from again. Absolutely heartbreaking!
The dogs were penned a few hundred feet from the Jeppson's home. It was a lot of land, lakes, rivers, canyons, countryside. I learned the German Shorthair Pointers are super fast runners, and do not always respond to commands when they are fixated on something. I think feeding the dogs also meant walking them. Reed was an Eagle Scout, a very experienced outdoors-men at only fifteen. He was a member of the 4-H club in his community, He was teaching his dogs how to bird-hunt. For Reed, walking the dogs was likely a daily activity, at least once a day. With the land and open spaces, even behind the old Saint Mary's School (torn down in 1970.) It's all wilderness and mountains. There are animals such as bears, snakes, cougars, and lions in the area. I think that it was Chart who studied the map distances. We theorized that there weren't a lot of houses or roads between Saint Mary's School and the Jeppson home. This is more land and wilderness areas.
There were very few businesses open on Sunday. Utah has a hugely religious Mormon population. The Jeppson's were extremely involved in family and church activities. Any "business" conducted on that day would be a private sale. I think Reed, being so close to the family would have told them what he was going to do with any money he had on him. Unless it was for a birthday celebration for someone in his family, or his parents' anniversary was forthcoming and he needed it to be a surprise.
The $60 he had in savings would be a good $500 today. He might have been going to look at used cars. I don't know if Reed had his temps yet, But if he was going to look at cars, Reed does not strike me as the type of person who would be evasive or deceitful. He would tell his parents/family where he was going with his money. To buy alcohol or drugs? No way! He's not the type.
I am trying to find out if Reed had his dogs on a leash or not? With such open areas of field and land, my inkling leads toward no. If he is taking them bird hunting, he is having them run. The dogs could have gotten away from Reed and fallen into a natural environmental hazard, or have been spooked or attacked by a wild animal. The "Eagle Scout" and "Good Samaritan " in Reed takes over. He would try to save his dogs from danger no matter what. Whether he had money in his pocket to meet someone becomes moot if there was a danger from an animal or environmental hazard involved.
However, because there is no evidence that pushes us to abduction or accident one way or the other, it's a 50/50 shot that one of these things occurred.
Abduction: Reed the great friend,Eagle Scout and good Samaritan loved by all falls into a sense of trust, could have been taken by someone he knew. Yet from scouting he knew "stranger danger." But what if this was not a stranger? Did he take that $60 saving's account money with him to buy something and meet up with horror? (50%.)
Accident: Reed let's the dogs run and they are spooked by an animal, or attacked by an animal. They fall in a lake, creek, mine-shaft, run into an animal den. Reed sees anything or anyone in trouble and once again the good Samaritan and loyal scout takes over. Reed will do anything to save the dogs he loved. All three get trapped, seriously injured and killed, or die from the elements. (50%)
Satch
Honestly, this case really gets to me more than any other and I can’t explain why. I pray that someday we’ll have the answers.
I never realised just how many old mines littered the area until I looked into it and there are thousands and yes people do fall down them and die…more regularly then you would imagine! I was dubious about there being an accident but after reading this it does seem like a possibility. My only doubts about this theory are:
LE seemed to have settled into the belief that Reed was either kidnapped or left of his own accord after extensive searches found nothing, and it seems as if the family firmly believed he had been kidnapped. I am inclined to agree with them. I have to say though that there a few things about this that don’t add up and so I am wondering if LE actually have some information that they never released to the public:
This is truly a sad and disturbing case and I know we all hope so much that one day soon we will all have closure for that young man’s and his family’s sake.
I never realised just how many old mines littered the area until I looked into it and there are thousands and yes people do fall down them and die…more regularly then you would imagine! I was dubious about there being an accident but after reading this it does seem like a possibility. My only doubts about this theory are:
- There does seem to have been quite a substantial search effort which found nothing. I also feel that the Jeppsons most probably kept on looking in these areas in the following years, I can’t imagine the family stopped searching the area.
- Reed was last seen in the area of the old St Mary of Wasatch school. I don’t imagine that there were any abandoned mines on this property, and if there were, surely a newly collapsed one would have been noticed. Even if Reed did go a bit further into the foothills, it surely can’t have been so far and so off of the beaten track that no one ever noticed a newly collapsed mine?
- If there was a newly collapsed shaft wouldn’t someone have noticed it, or the disturbance in the area…after all these years someone must have passed by?
- Salt Lake City has recently been closing off and securing the thousands of abandoned mines and they have sealed thousands…so far they didn’t find anything. Also the area around the Wasatch school was heavily developed and also nothing was found during the excavation works.
LE seemed to have settled into the belief that Reed was either kidnapped or left of his own accord after extensive searches found nothing, and it seems as if the family firmly believed he had been kidnapped. I am inclined to agree with them. I have to say though that there a few things about this that don’t add up and so I am wondering if LE actually have some information that they never released to the public:
- The fact that LE seemed to question Reed’s brother rather a lot in the belief that he had some knowledge of his whereabouts. What made them think this?
- Why did LE believe that Reed had gone to Kansas? What was in Kansas? What information did they have?
- The statement from LE in 2010 that “someone out there knows what happened to Reed”. They seem pretty sure.
- The questioning of a paedophile from the area who seemed to smirk knowingly. Although LE dismissed him as he wasn’t known to be violent and there was no evidence of involvement you have to wonder first what made the police suspicious and secondly whether he actually knew more than he let on, even if he hadn’t done anything himself. Could there have been an active paedophile ring in the area in the 60’s that no one is aware of? Did any other youngsters disappear from the area in the years before or after?
- The fact that Reed had the equivalent in today’s money of €500 on him when he was only going to feed/walk the dogs and there were no shops open in the area. Who was he paying and why? What would €60 get you in 1964?
- Reed’s family were certain that he was taken by a paedophile, but they never justified this belief with any reasoning, I wonder what the local belief was, what were his friends saying? Often times the neighbourhood gossip can be very revealing because the story stems from a truth. What did people think they knew?
- One of the dogs (we don’t know which) vanished for 2 weeks in the weeks previous to Reed’s disappearance. Where was it? Someone must have been feeding it. How did it make its way back? Is this significant? Is the person who had the dog the same person that took Reed?
- (JMO-I realise this is a sensitive topic but I think it’s important to raise it)Reed’s father committed suicide a year and two months after his son vanished. I can find no mention of any possible reason for this; by all accounts he seemed to be a very successful doctor and active member of the local community and church and for a dedicated member of the LDS church it seems unusual that he would consider suicide, which I believe is viewed as essentially murder in the church and is a sin. Especially so since he had such a large family to support. I can understand how he must have been dismayed at the literal loss of a son, but considering he still had so many other children to love, why would he choose to leave them and cause even more grief and heartache. Everyone deals with grief differently and I am not making any judgements, especially about ones mental health. But I do wonder what was weighing so heavily on his mind? Was it guilt?
This is truly a sad and disturbing case and I know we all hope so much that one day soon we will all have closure for that young man’s and his family’s sake.
Reed's brother Jon felt that the reason for Dr. Jeppson's suicide, was taken from a YouTube video with him he said, (somewhat paraphrased.) "My Dad, we looked up to him, he was very smart, and always had an answer for everything. But Reed's disappearance was a problem that he could not solve. Dad felt more and more useless because of this, and felt that the family would be better off without him."
No one in the family believed Dr, Jeppson was of any less value because of Reed's vanishing. It seems that they tried to convince him that it was not his fault. But a good point raised, they had at least ten other kids to love. The depression and guilt would be there. But yes, what about the feelings of leaving your whole family behind?
Oh, and please, I don't mean this to sound morbid or anything, but I sometimes think about how Reed's Dad committed suicide? I am only interested in knowing the method to study evidence of in the case. From what I know, he seemed to not do it at his home, because Mrs. Jeppson had summoned the family, and announced that their father had taken his own life. This is in Jon's YouTube video. It's early in this thread.
Satch
Hey @Satch thanks for that info. It almost sounds as if the family were expecting it to happen sooner or later then.
I can't get inside Dr Jeppson's head and will never understand what he was going through, but I still find the reasoning a little odd if I'm honest. It sounds like he killed himself because he couldn't solve his son's disappearance and that made him feel useless...surely it makes more sense to devote yourself to finding him and solving it then? What if Reed had returned/been found after his father's death? He can't have been sure that Reed was dead...or can he? I don't want to cast aspersions on a man who was clearly suffering, and it may just have been an overwhelming sense of uselessness at not being able to protect his son...but what about protecting all of his other children as well in the future? I suppose people with this amount of mental anguish don't always think logically but it still sounds fishy to me...almost like a guilty conscience OR some knowledge that really preyed on his mind. JMO
No it doesn't sound morbid, in fact I think you raise a genuinely interesting point. It would be useful to know the method and place of the suicide, it could shed some further light actually. But unfortunately I can't see anyone ever releasing that information. when you said (quotaing Jon) "Mrs Jeppson summoned the family and announced that their father had taken his own life"--I don't know, it sounds so cold, almost staged and planned. In such a close family with so many kids, and so soon after losing a son, I would have imagined more feeling somehow, more breaking down disconsolately. But again...I can't really comment on others' beahviour, just an observation.
I spent last night trying to see if there were any serial killers or anything active in those years and were in that area at the time (I am sure LE have already considered these things but a fresh pair of eyes sometimes...)...unfortunately I couldn't find anything.
Great post!
Years ago, I had a very strongly religious friend (devoted Catholic, ultra Conservative) who was very honest, direct, goal-oriented, and also very, very opinionated. The whole family was this way. He is now a prominent physician.
The thing is that death did not phase him like it does most people, because he believed that people when they die, were always "Going to a better place." So, it could be that maybe Dr, Jeppson believed that heaven was better. My friend though did not have a lot of social friends though because he was so opinionated. Maybe in the Mormon faith, death is seen as something better than life, because they believe, like a strong Catholic, that they are going to a better place?
I haven't thought about the "staged formality" with the family, concerning Dr, Jeppson's suicide, until now. But something seems off about it, unless other strong practicing Mormons with large families who were deeply religious believe that the hereafter is a better place. But two facts come from it:
1.) Why take your life with the mystery that you will never know what happened to your son, when you have ten other kids and a wife who loves you so much? Why not just never give up hope and keep looking for Reed?
2.) Why add another tragedy of suicide to give your family and friends more grief?
The other thing that keeps me up at night is because of the age of this case, with LE who worked on it either retired or dead, barring either a massive discovery of remains, or a death-bed confession, that can be proved through DNA, we may never know what happened here.
I love keeping this thread going! I am also obsessed with this case!
Satch
Hey @Satch thats a really great point, I had never even considered it from that angle! It could be that his mental anguish was so bad that he wanted to go to a better place. I did a bit of reserach on Mormon beliefs concerning suicide. Below is a link to one of thr sources:
Suicide
If you or someone you know is considering suicide, please reach out and talk to someone who can provide the right help.
www.churchofjesuschrist.org
Basically I found that right up until the early 1990's Mormon apostles were preaching that Suicide is essentially murder and there would be grave consequences in the afterlife, an eternity of punishmnent and damnation, the usual sort of thing for those who have sinned. More recently it seems that the church now basically says "it is up to God to judge" which seems like they are still saying it's a NO, NO...but they won't pass judgement. It seems to me that back in 1964 Reed's Dad would have been of the belief that suicide would not get him into heaven...in fact he may never have been reunited with any of his family in the next life. Seems a little odd to me, seems like Dr Jeppson was punishing himself for something.
Yes, these are the Two big unanswerable questions about this whole suicide situation...it just doesn't seem to add up does it?
It's all starting to make me wonder about Dr Jeppson as a suspect/person with information. It is a fact that crimes are more often committed by a member of the person's family. I do wonder as well what the Jeppson family actually knew, especially Jon Jeppson.
There is also something else that really bothers me here and I want others' input:
Reed left home at lunchtime. He didn't come back for lunch. He then didn't come back for Dinner/Supper. He hadn't returned by the time it was dark (bear in mind that the temperature took a turn for the worse at that time, records indicate it was between 0-5 degrees celsius (about 40F) on the night he disappeared). He hadn't come back in the evening. Why did his parents wait until the early hours of Monday to report Reed missing? Was this a usual thing back then? Did Reed have a habit of staying out late (seems unlikely). Had his family actually gone out and started looking for him before calling LE, bacause I havent read any mention of it if they did. Or is there something else going on here that we just aren't aware of?
On a sort of unrelated note; Apparently Roseann Barr attended the same school as Reed, she was 3 years younger than him so maybe she wasn't at the school when he was (not too sure about American school years?), he was a Sophomore. I wonder if she has any remebrance of the case. In fact, quite a lot of famous people attended his high school.
I just had another realisation, maybe someone can help. It is always stated that Reed kept the dogs about 200 yards from the house. Now, I have always assumed that they would be kept in the back yard but according to the distance, that may not be the case.
Now I don't know how the properties and property divisiosn looked back then, I tried and failed to find a map that showed them so maybe someone else can? But below I have tried to highlight the distance of about 200 yards in relation to Reed's house (indicated in red) both on a modern google map and also on the 1963 Sugar House map. It seems to me that the dogs may not have been kept on the Jeppson's property at all. They could have been on another property or down in Emigration Creek. Is this possible? Did Reed have to go down into the creek area to feed the dogs? Could someone have been down there waiting for him?
Please let me know if you think I am way out on this one or not.
Now I don't know how the properties and property divisiosn looked back then, I tried and failed to find a map that showed them so maybe someone else can? But below I have tried to highlight the distance of about 200 yards in relation to Reed's house (indicated in red) both on a modern google map and also on the 1963 Sugar House map. It seems to me that the dogs may not have been kept on the Jeppson's property at all. They could have been on another property or down in Emigration Creek. Is this possible? Did Reed have to go down into the creek area to feed the dogs? Could someone have been down there waiting for him?
Please let me know if you think I am way out on this one or not.
All Great Points!
Another issue is-why were the police so interrogating of Jon? That seems to be another mystery. Was Jon home when Reed left? Was he in another room? I don't remember specifics, but if you listen to Jon's video at the section where he talks about Reed's disappearance,there are some things that are a bit different than what Suzanne Tate remembers. ( Reed's sister.)
I can vouch for the time delay in Reed missing vs.reporting to LE. Back in 1964, in many jurisdictions, you had to wait at least 24 hours to be considered a missing person. Before than, you were a runaway. The cops did not consider runaways like they do today, unless you were a prominent threat to yourself or society.
The Jeppson's property was HUGE. I know that Reed's brother Keith moved back into the families' house. He had his own family, and renovated that whole backyard of land into an outdoor paradise! When Keith passed away, this was talked about in his obituary.
Before Reed's Mother Elizabeth Jeppson passed away, she said,(paraphrased) "Three family members had proceeded her in death, and she was looking forward to seeing them and joining them in heaven."
Surviving family members who have grated interviews say, "We talk about Reed all the time. He is just as much a part of our family now, as he was back than," The Mormon Faith has a very strong belief system that, "Families are forever." It also seems that with the Jeppson's belief systems that heaven was a great place, where you are reunited with all those you love."
Did Dr. Jeppson assume that Reed had died, and therefore killed himself to be with him?
Satch
Thanks for confirming @Satch, I did wonder if I was way off, but I suppose I'm just exploring every angle. It makes sense they would have a huge property with such a large family!
I just managed to watch the Youtube video of Jon Jeppson again and properly concentrated on it. You are right, there is some discrepancy over the memories of that day. Jon seems to remember that Reed had lunch with the family first and THEN went to feed the dogs, while Suzanne seems to say he disappeared before lunch. You would have thought they would have discussed this as a family and know what happened. This means that there are 2 potential timelines of possible events that day. The main significance of this would be that if Jon's recollection is correct then there is no way that Reed could have eaten lunch AND been seen at the stated time of 1pm up at the St Mary of Wasatch Church. Jon also said that they were meant to be returning to Sunday school after their lunch, and then later at 4pm there would be another "Sacrament Meeting" (It seems that the morning meeting was not Sunday school at all (as is always reported) but a "Priesthood meeting"). If this is the case, it makes me question whether Reed would even take the dogs that far, knowing he is meant to be in Sunday school very soon. I doubt he could have gotten there and back in time safely to avoid being late and it doesn't sound like him to be knowingly late.
This really does make me question the sighting up at the church. Either the timing was way off or the sighting was just wrong. Again, I wish we knew who actually made the sighting. A "friend" would obviously know it was Reed. On the other hand, if the sighting was correct then how did Reed get there so quickly? Could someone have driven him?
I must say again, I was slightly surprised that when Reed didn't show up for two church meetings or at all later in the evening Jon never mentioned that there was any real concern, just that they thought it was out of character and he fully expected Reed to be in the bed next to him the next morning. I do wonder if this wasn't the first time that Reed had maybe stayed out somewhere later than he should have, in which case, where/with whom?
Regarding the Detective who suspected Jon knew something. I can't really work out if LE had a lead that made them suspect Jon, or whether they were just guessing he may know something. According to Jon the detective took him in the car to talk to a friend of Reed. Then the following conversation happened in the car:
LE: OK Jon, where is he
Jon: I don't know
LE: You do know and you've caused incredible heartache to your parents. You're hiding him, you're doing something in connection with his disappearance. It's time to stop the games and tell us where he is
Jon: I don't know where he is
LE: If you don't tell me you're gonna be taken to the station and we're gonna do a polygraph
Who was the friend they were going to talk to and why? What did they know, had they suggested Jon might be involved? Was it the friend who saw Reed? Jon says after that conversation he guessed the police eventually believed him. But I just don't know.
Jon's remembers this conversation Word-for-Word with crystal clear clarity and yet he originally got the year of Reed's disappearance wrong and also may be confused over the events of the day. Interesting, and I wonder what a psychologist would say about that ...repressed memory or something?
So from the video it seems that Dr Jeppson went up to Rotary Park and took his life. He had been feeling more and more depressed and that morning he had asked several of the kids if they wanted to play squash, none of them could, he felt useless and took himself up into the mountains and took his life. There is a "Rotary Glen Park" which is very close to the last sighting place of Reed and also a "Rotary Park" which is up in the mountains about 30 minutes from the last sighting. I'm not sure which he was referring to. It doesn't say how he killed himself.
The way Jon describes what his father was going through he basically thinks he lost faith and couldn't take it anymore. I am not sure, I still can't understand leaving your loving family when you don't even know 100% that your son is not still alive somewhere, instead of never stopping to look for him... but I am less suspicious of Dr Jeppson since watching somehow. Jon on the other hand...I don't know, something seems deceptive and doesn't seem to fit with the way he describes things.
One other thing I took from watching was about the dogs. Jon never mentions that Reed was raising the dogs to hunt birds, he says he was raising them for a "Merit Badge". A google search showed me that this is one of the eagle scout merit badges, so that fits in with Reed being an eagle scout. I am not sure where the Bird hunting reference originally came from. Anyway, one of the requirements is: For two months, keep and care for your dog and a detailed diary had to be kept (the full text is in the link below). I am not sure if the requirements have changed since 1964, but if this was the case then it seems significant that one of the dogs had disappeared for a couple of weeks earlier...Reed would have failed to care for them and would not have been able to attain his merit badge. Is it possible that someone was playing tricks on Reed, or maybe they were jealous of him and his achievements? Is it possible he was being bullied? Was there something in Reed's life that was not as happy as everyone believed? If that is the case, could his disappearance be a prank that went tragically wrong?
And finally, I recently read on a blog about the case (so maybe not reliable) that there were several sightings of Reed in the weeks following his disappearance, but investigations led nowhere. I have never read anyway about these other sightings...does anyone know where they were? Or was the information wrong?
Sorry again for the long post...I just have to get out what's going through my head and invariably when I start typing I think of something else. You are right @Satch , this case is now so old and with so few people left alive from that time that we probably aren't going to get a resolution unless Reed's remains are found. He is out there somewhere, people don't just vanish and I do believe that one day he will be found and identified. I am still strongly of the opinion that if we could just see the Case Files on this then someone might see something that has been missed, you know "fresh pair of eyes" and all that, and they might contain something that isn't public knowledge. Does LE ever release case files? Is it possible to do a FOI request for these? Would that work here?
In actuality,
Regarding Jon's video, I don't think I watched the whole thing. It's very long. But the parts about Reed, I listened very intently:
There is just something about the way that he speaks that seems, off. For starters, who would misspeak the year of their brother's disappearance? I know he corrects himself later. But a life-changing event like that, and since this family was a model and perfect example of closeness, love, and togetherness, it reasons that you would never mess up a time like that in your life.Secondly, that your families' stories would be consistent. I find his sister Suzanne's version of what happened to be more credible. I don't know of other family members who have spoken publicly about Reed, where their conversations have been made public, so I can't compare more family responses.
I am not blaming Jon for anything at all! it's possible that his versions of events could be clouded by age, medical conditions, or both. I just don't see the kind of emotion that one would generally express over a the loss of a family member concerning his Dad, or the unknown whereabouts of Reed. You listen to Suzanne's interview, and she literally cries and shakes when talking about Reed. You can hear it in her voice, you can see the pain in her eyes. She'll have the family photo albums showing Reed, and his pictures. In contrast with Jon, I don't get that same vibe. It's like he's doing a narrative.
There was another report online about someone doing a story on Reed, and they reached out to the family. They said that the family was very nice and super accommodating. But they just did not feel like "reliving the events again." Maybe some of the family believes. "Reed and Dad are in God's hands. They want us to move on with our lives." In fact, a headstone was created for Reed around 2010 I think. It seems that some family members have found closure, but others like Suzanne are still seeking closure. There were different views even within the family on what happened to Reed.
Satch
Haha honestly, unless you have an interest in the Latter Day Saints movement it is not necessary to watch the whole thing. But the bits about Reed and his dad were interesting. I also liked the old photos they showed. Jon and Reed looked very similar back in the 60's and they both did all the same activities. Then later Jon got with his other brother's girlfriend and married her...it was apparently quite awkward for a time. I get the impression that Jon's character is quite domineering and contolling. He definitely likes to be the most successful and top in everything he does and I think he felt like he was the head of the family.
I'm completely with you there @Satch , Jon's accounts of both his brother's disappearance and his father's suicide seem so completely without feeling and scripted. Especially compared to his other siblings accounts; and bearing in mind he and Reed were meant to be best friends. I don't know what but there is just something...off, like you say.
I am still trying to find out what the "sightings" of Reed were in the weeks after his disappearance, but I can't find anything concrete except that there definitely WERE sightings reported. I would love to know where because oftentimes I believe these sightings and think the reason LE can never verify them is because they start days after. I wonder if thats what made them think Kansas. I even had a look at possible dog shows that were happening at the time, I wondered if there was something he wanted to attend that he wasn't allowed to...
I did find one thing that interested me as it answered a question I had asked earlier regarding what the local gossip was at the time, what did neighbours and friends really think as I often think that locals know more than they think and the local views are often based on some truth. It seems from this article that the Jeppson's friends and neighbours were of the opinion that Reed had upped and left due to some issues within the family...I find that really interesting, especially as this was supposedly the perfect family (as reported by the family themselves). Now it makes me think that what with Reeds disappearance and then his Dad's suicide they werent so perfect afterall:
"Reed Jeppson's family searched for him. His brother, Edward, a pilot, searched from the air. His sister, Sally, came home from BYU to search. The family ranged from sister Patricia, 29 and married with kids of her own, to baby Keith, who was only 7 when Reed disappeared.
Reed's parents, Dr. Edward and Elizabeth Taylor Jeppson, and his brothers and sisters combed the foothills and ravines nearest their home and then beyond, with help from hundreds of volunteers. Nothing.
Then came the veiled accusations, the sly glances, the innuendo. Even friends asked questions like, "What was going on in your family that was so bad he had to run away?" A half-century later, they are still occasionally zinged by thoughtless remarks. Shortly after Salt Lake police said last month that the department will re-examine Reed’s cold case, Tate ran into an acquaintance. "Maybe now your brother will decide to come home," the individual said.
That stings. The family has never believed he left on his own, Patricia Menlove says of her brother. Nothing supports the suggestion. He left the money he'd been earning with a paper route. And it defies belief that in the 45 years he's been gone he wouldn't have contacted at least one of his 10 remaining siblings, says another sister, Sally Mace.
"It's awful what people say. We were always a close-knit family," Mace says. "We're still that way."
link to the article: Shattered: After public moves on, families of missing left wondering about what happened to their loved ones
In researching I noted that ALOT of young men Reed's age go missing or commit suicide from LDS families, a surprising amount actually. I am not sure why but the home environment is always perfect and happy...until they invariably discover that actually, it wasn't.
All families have secrets, even close, tight-knit ones.
I always thought my family was messed up, and it is, but when I grew up and started experiencing the world, I realized we weren't as dysfunctional as I thought compared to others. And the weird thing is, other families go about their business thinking they're perfect and normal, and they're not.
I always thought my family was messed up, and it is, but when I grew up and started experiencing the world, I realized we weren't as dysfunctional as I thought compared to others. And the weird thing is, other families go about their business thinking they're perfect and normal, and they're not.
Yea,
Going back to Jon's YouTube video when he talks about Reed's vanishing and his Dad's suicide, it's almost one of those papers that people wrote in High School, or speeches that they gave on "How I spent my summer vacation." When I first came across that video, I got so excited because I feel like, "Finally!, I get a detailed video interview account with the a Jeppson family member!" But who gets the year of something like a missing person wrong in your own family?" Unless Jon's memory has been clouded for medical reasons for something. But one minute, he's talking about Reed going missing, as if he's giving a lecture. Than next, he's back to how God influenced his life. Life is just chapters in a book for Jon. That's the part that seems "off."
Satch
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So, I thought I would try and have a look at some of the other leads and tips in this case that have received little attention compared to others. Although LE did follow them up at the time, they didn’t lead anywhere, but I wonder if we can shed any new light on them now. It always bothered me that the sighting at St Mary of Wasatch school was given so much credibility but other information was sort of just brushed under the carpet. Especially considering the school sighting seems to not tie in with Jon Jeppson’s memories of events at all. So here goes:
“Reports that motorists who believed they had seen the dogs were checked out."
So, it seems that LE received reports from several people that they had seen the dogs. After looking into it, LE didn’t find anything…hardly surprising as the dogs were probably long gone. Now apparently this is several different reports, not just one, which adds credence to the reports. I for one believe these reports for the reason that it seems a stretch to believe that there were more than one set of the same breed of dogs, an older one and a pup, potentially wandering around the same area. Unfortunately there is no mention of what road the motorists saw the dogs on or even if it was at the same place, which is a shame as it could help to place where Reed was when he vanished. <modsnip>
I think we have always assumed that dogs would have returned home so we assumed that they were either taken with Reed or were involved in an accident along with him, but what if that’s not the case, what if for whatever reason they didn’t return home. I just did a quick Google search for “will German pointer return home if lost?” and I got page after page basically telling me that this breed is prone to wandering away, running away and is easily distracted and basically no, this breed may not return home of its own accord. One page says “German Shorthaired Pointers can be escape artists, runners and go missing to far away locations”.
I think this has implications. It seems possible that Reed may have actually been kidnapped and the kidnapper just didn’t take the dogs. Afterwards the dogs just must have wandered off along the road. I can’t say where they ended up. Although I’d like to believe that local people or even the local pound would have realised these were Reed’s dogs, we can’t be 100% sure of that, especially if they wandered far enough away.
It is also possible that Reed had an accident and the dogs didn’t stay with him, but somehow I find that harder to believe. I am drawn to Reed having been taken in a car. Since he would never have left the dogs, it would have to be by force.
Kansas City, MO police were "notified after information was received that the youth might be traveling to that city."
This one has always stood out to me. LE received a tip that he had gone to Kansas City…from who? People don’t just leave credible tips unless they have some extra information. (I had originally thought that it was Kansas the state, I now realise it is Kansas City. Not being American I had no idea that Kansas City was actually in Missouri so I at least learnt something!). Anyway, since SLCPD went to the trouble of notifying Missouri LE I assume the tip was credible. The question is, what was in Kansas City?
I did a bit of research. The only events I can find that were happening close to Reed’s disappearance were
There are also the dogs to consider. I don’t think he would take the dogs with him if he was intending to go elsewhere. But still it bothers me that someone was convinced enough that he may have gone to Kansas City that they informed LE.
I also intend to have a look at the local Salt Lake papers in the weeks leading up to October 11th to see if there was any particular crime reported that stands out as possible something significant, maybe Reed stumbled into something illegal.
Anyway, please let me know your thoughts on this, and if anyone has anything to add.
“Reports that motorists who believed they had seen the dogs were checked out."
So, it seems that LE received reports from several people that they had seen the dogs. After looking into it, LE didn’t find anything…hardly surprising as the dogs were probably long gone. Now apparently this is several different reports, not just one, which adds credence to the reports. I for one believe these reports for the reason that it seems a stretch to believe that there were more than one set of the same breed of dogs, an older one and a pup, potentially wandering around the same area. Unfortunately there is no mention of what road the motorists saw the dogs on or even if it was at the same place, which is a shame as it could help to place where Reed was when he vanished. <modsnip>
I think we have always assumed that dogs would have returned home so we assumed that they were either taken with Reed or were involved in an accident along with him, but what if that’s not the case, what if for whatever reason they didn’t return home. I just did a quick Google search for “will German pointer return home if lost?” and I got page after page basically telling me that this breed is prone to wandering away, running away and is easily distracted and basically no, this breed may not return home of its own accord. One page says “German Shorthaired Pointers can be escape artists, runners and go missing to far away locations”.
I think this has implications. It seems possible that Reed may have actually been kidnapped and the kidnapper just didn’t take the dogs. Afterwards the dogs just must have wandered off along the road. I can’t say where they ended up. Although I’d like to believe that local people or even the local pound would have realised these were Reed’s dogs, we can’t be 100% sure of that, especially if they wandered far enough away.
It is also possible that Reed had an accident and the dogs didn’t stay with him, but somehow I find that harder to believe. I am drawn to Reed having been taken in a car. Since he would never have left the dogs, it would have to be by force.
Kansas City, MO police were "notified after information was received that the youth might be traveling to that city."
This one has always stood out to me. LE received a tip that he had gone to Kansas City…from who? People don’t just leave credible tips unless they have some extra information. (I had originally thought that it was Kansas the state, I now realise it is Kansas City. Not being American I had no idea that Kansas City was actually in Missouri so I at least learnt something!). Anyway, since SLCPD went to the trouble of notifying Missouri LE I assume the tip was credible. The question is, what was in Kansas City?
I did a bit of research. The only events I can find that were happening close to Reed’s disappearance were
- 17th October-A Beatles concert
- 18th October-Kansas City Chiefs vs. Denver Broncos
There are also the dogs to consider. I don’t think he would take the dogs with him if he was intending to go elsewhere. But still it bothers me that someone was convinced enough that he may have gone to Kansas City that they informed LE.
I also intend to have a look at the local Salt Lake papers in the weeks leading up to October 11th to see if there was any particular crime reported that stands out as possible something significant, maybe Reed stumbled into something illegal.
Anyway, please let me know your thoughts on this, and if anyone has anything to add.
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