UT UT - Spc. Joseph Michael Bushling, 26, Dugway, 8 May 2011

[A51]

Could you link me to an article that has released the physical location of the car please? If not, are you posting from inside the investigation...I must have missed where they released the vehicle's specific location. TIA!!

dude, sorry bout that. my bad. im still lernin. heres the info

http://lostnmissing.amplify.com/201...-26-missing-in-utah-desert-since-may-08-2011/

 

[dreamweaver]

dude, sorry bout that. my bad. im still lernin. heres the info

http://lostnmissing.amplify.com/201...-26-missing-in-utah-desert-since-may-08-2011/

Thanks for that, I must have missed it.

 

[Kat]

The Army should find a loophole in the regs and assign this family a Casualty Liasion even though there isn't any indicated yet that Joe is deceased.

That would alleviate a lot of the frustrations and fears and mistrust of the military that this family is feeling. JMHO.

If not a causalty liaison then someone from the MFLC Program (Military Family Life Consultants) who can assist this family in their stress and grief (grief that he is missing) and then just assign a POC (point of contact) to speak with the family by phone and keep them as updated as possible.

But again there are regs and I don't know what they are, just know that the military members are restricted by those regs.

If the family should ever read here and wishes to obtain free advice or counseling they can contact http://www.myarmyonesource.com/default.aspx the phone number is: 1-800-342-9647. As a family member of a military member even if not a dependent you can access resources there. (limited). JFYI

 

[laytonian]

The Army should find a loophole in the regs and assign this family a Casualty Liasion even though there isn't any indicated yet that Joe is deceased.

That would alleviate a lot of the frustrations and fears and mistrust of the military that this family is feeling. JMHO.

If not a causalty liaison then someone from the MFLC Program (Military Family Life Consultants) who can assist this family in their stress and grief (grief that he is missing) and then just assign a POC (point of contact) to speak with the family by phone and keep them as updated as possible.

But again there are regs and I don't know what they are, just know that the military members are restricted by those regs.

If the family should ever read here and wishes to obtain free advice or counseling they can contact http://www.myarmyonesource.com/default.aspx the phone number is: 1-800-342-9647. As a family member of a military member even if not a dependent you can access resources there. (limited). JFYI

Very good ideas. Dugway has a Chaplain. That's what he's there for.

I'm surprised that Mr Bushling hasn't contacted the Chaplain and used him to help run through the press gauntlet and to help interpret things.

 

[laytonian]

Thanks for that, I must have missed it.

It wasn't reported in the media.

Removing the gibberish, ONE of the coordinates led to a location: CLICK HERE to see map.
A = Dugway
B = Car location N 39 59.189, W 113 12.002

The only problem with those coordinates?
They are not 64 miles SW of Dugway (as reported in the media) -- but only 39. UNLESS the car was found off that road, something's wrong with the location info.

Bushling himself reported being "West of Granite Mountain" -- which maps out further away (CLICK HERE to see the difference).
A = Dugway
B = Car location N 39 59.189, W 113 12.002
C = Granite Mountain

 

[believe09]

LostNMissing is a 501c3 that created the poster with the coordinates on it. Just to try and clarify this for myself: the coordinates are not meshing with the MSM reports on the location of his vehicle. Fox quotes his car as being found 64 miles SW of Dugway's main gate. And then the hat was found 6 miles from the car.

http://www.fox13now.com/news/kstu-d...oldier-wants-answers-20110605,0,3588977.story

So there is a disconnect between MSM and LostNMissing. Wonder where Lost obtained the coordinates?

 

[believe09]

FYI-anyone can create a missing person's poster. I am not saying that LostNMissing's is inaccurate, but anyone can make one and post it on the www.

 

[laytonian]

LostNMissing is a 501c3 that created the poster with the coordinates on it. Just to try and clarify this for myself: the coordinates are not meshing with the MSM reports on the location of his vehicle. Fox quotes his car as being found 64 miles SW of Dugway's main gate. And then the hat was found 6 miles from the car.

http://www.fox13now.com/news/kstu-d...oldier-wants-answers-20110605,0,3588977.story

So there is a disconnect between MSM and LostNMissing. Wonder where Lost obtained the coordinates?

I've been trying to figure it out, too.

Googling some of the coordinates (- 39.986490,-113.200040DD), I come up with three results (but all are LostNMissing pages). There's no other source.

Something else interesting on that LostNMissing page: it says there are "no cellphone towers in the area".

If there are no cellphone towers in the area, how did Bushling use his cellphone to call his friend?

This updated Fox13 story (CLICK HERE) has video.

 

[PaulR]

If there are no cellphone towers in the area, how did Bushling use his cellphone to call his friend?

If he was at some kind of altitude, he could have picked up a distant cell tower.

The cell tower in Dugway is Verizon, and CDMA (Verizon's technology) can reach up to 35-40 miles depending on terrain. It looks like about 30 miles as the crow flies, so he could have used his cell.

 

[laytonian]

If he was at some kind of altitude, he could have picked up a distant cell tower.

The cell tower in Dugway is Verizon, and CDMA (Verizon's technology) can reach up to 35-40 miles depending on terrain. It looks like about 30 miles as the crow flies, so he could have used his cell.

The car was found 64 miles SW of Dugway, not far off the dirt road, in a gully.

 

[PaulR]

The car was found 64 miles SW of Dugway, not far off the dirt road, in a gully.

Thanks. Do you know the elevation of the road? Was it on a hill or at ground level?

 

[laytonian]

Thanks. Do you know the elevation of the road? Was it on a hill or at ground level?

"Bushling, 26, had left a message with a friend saying he had run out of gas on the west side of Granite Mountain, and no one has seen him since."
Source: Salt Lake Tribune

Being on the west side of the mountain, means the mountain was between him and cell signals.

 

[laytonian]

The Deseret News had an update yesterday (CLICK HERE).

Quote from article:

"Rep. Steve Womack, R-Ark ... said he is privy to theories investigators have spelled out to him, but he's not going to pass on their speculation.
"I'm not a law enforcement guy or a detective, but I've seen enough on TV to know that until you know otherwise, you put everything on the table. Everything is suspect. Everything has to be followed."​

 

[cocomod]

The Deseret News had an update yesterday (CLICK HERE).

Quote from article:

"Rep. Steve Womack, R-Ark ... said he is privy to theories investigators have spelled out to him, but he's not going to pass on their speculation.
"I'm not a law enforcement guy or a detective, but I've seen enough on TV to know that until you know otherwise, you put everything on the table. Everything is suspect. Everything has to be followed."​

Well if that doesn't just beat all. Mr. Womack speaks in code!

 

[PaulR]

"Bushling, 26, had left a message with a friend saying he had run out of gas on the west side of Granite Mountain, and no one has seen him since."
Source: Salt Lake Tribune

Being on the west side of the mountain, means the mountain was between him and cell signals.

Bushling could have been wrong of course... if he was lost, he probably was. I forget if it was at night or not, in which case he wouldn't have had the sun to give him a bearing.

But I'm leaning towards AWOL myself.

 

[MsFacetious]

LostNMissing is a 501c3 that created the poster with the coordinates on it. Just to try and clarify this for myself: the coordinates are not meshing with the MSM reports on the location of his vehicle. Fox quotes his car as being found 64 miles SW of Dugway's main gate. And then the hat was found 6 miles from the car.

http://www.fox13now.com/news/kstu-d...oldier-wants-answers-20110605,0,3588977.story

So there is a disconnect between MSM and LostNMissing. Wonder where Lost obtained the coordinates?

The coordinates would have come from the his fellow soldiers who are searching and/or the family. People were asking for them on facebook so we could all go search.

I would find it for you, but there is no way I can do it. It was a week ago or more.

http://www.facebook.com/JosephBushlingMissingU.S.SoldiersinceMay.8.2011?sk=wall

I would just look on the fellow soldiers facebook... but interesting thing... after using every spare minute searching for Joe, turning their facebooks pretty much into a search page for Joe, (which were totally supportive, no negative comments)... they have suddenly gone private. :banghead:

I'm sure that is just a coincidence.

Very good ideas. Dugway has a Chaplain. That's what he's there for.

I'm surprised that Mr Bushling hasn't contacted the Chaplain and used him to help run through the press gauntlet and to help interpret things.

I cannot find it now but I swear I read, heard, or was told directly at some point that they had talked to the Chaplain. I want to say that is who met them at the airport, but don't quote me on that.

I know they haven't talk to the Commander. He has not called them, stopped by while they were on base or sent a note.

I guess I find it odd... any President of the US, Commander and Chief... finds time to contact a family of a dead or missing soldier once in a while and he has thousands of dead or missing soldiers.

This Commander has one missing soldier and he doesn't have time or doesn't feel it's important to contact the family. :waitasec:


I have high expectations though.

I expect people to go above and beyond in situations like this. It REALLY upsets me when they don't.

I have mostly stayed away from here on Joe's case... just handling it locally, because it infuriates me to the point of shaking too badly to type. There are VERY few things that get me that angry. I can count them on one hand.


This family lost one son last year.

Now their only other son, their only other CHILD, is missing in the desert.

NCIS was called into the investigation in Maine, when Camden's body was found on the side of the road... because a vehicle with a Navy emblem was seen "in the area." Possibly connected to the boy's unidentified body.

Yet, we can't call in any additional help to search for a missing soldier, who they have basically said they believe is in the desert?

They don't believe he went AWOL and they don't believe it was foul play.

That means suicide or accident. Which would mean he is still in the desert. (Aside from alien abduction.)


By the way, Joe's birthday was June 3. He is now 27 years old. He has missed his Mom's birthday and his own. Joe and I are 2 months apart in age.

 

[laytonian]

I know they haven't talk to the Commander. He has not called them, stopped by while they were on base or sent a note.

I guess I find it odd... any President of the US, Commander and Chief... finds time to contact a family of a dead or missing soldier once in a while and he has thousands of dead or missing soldiers.

This Commander has one missing soldier and he doesn't have time or doesn't feel it's important to contact the family. :waitasec:

Bushling's unit is a tenancy; the involved Commander would be the Army Commander at Fort Carson, Colorado. The Dugway commander is actually not in the same chain of command.

But...I just read the "find Joseph Bushling" Facebook page, and there's some wild accusations over there by his relatives. Paraphrasing: "the Army has his body, but is keeping it secret because he wandered into some "hot" area."

I'm sorry, but spreading false rumors like that, is counterproductive. I can understand anger, but I can't understand their belief in stuff like that. Like some other things we've read: it just don't happen that way. In fact, accusing people of being part of widespread government conspiracies may have the opposite effect.
I'm still flummoxed by the father's short visit to the area, yet he wants *everyone else* to search for his son.

 

[MsFacetious]

All just my opinion.

Quite honestly, I have seriously considered the possibility that Joe walked into a testing range. He wasn't in military gear. He was in civilian clothes. He very likely would have gotten shot. They may have admitted their mistake... or may not.

The military has not put a lot of effort into this search. I don't understand why that is. I think maybe a conspiracy makes people feel better than thinking they just don't give a crap about a missing soldier.

Unfortunately, many families still have to work. Some families can afford to not work, others have a house payment that requires two incomes. This family just paid for a funeral a year ago. Those are not cheap. He was here for a week and got absolutely nowhere.

I have said repeatedly, I think he would have ended up in jail if he had stayed. He was SO frustrated he needed a break. When the FBI shows up to a military base, to detonate the explosives YOU found, searching the area that had been "thoroughly searched" for your missing son, but they can't search FOR your son... that will anger you.

Like I said, I have high expectations. I don't care if the Dugway commander is not actually in the same chain of command.

There was a search for a soldier going on at Dugway at the time. He is the Commander of Dugway. To ME it would be expected that he go and offer his support to the family and any assistance he could provide.

If it had been a civilian who went missing visiting the base, would he not have been expected to do anything?

I think he should in either case. :twocents:

It's kind of like when your neighbor gets killed in a horrific car crash almost in front of your house. You might go express that you are sorry to his widow and kids. I had no obligation to do so, but I wouldn't felt right if I hadn't. Just like I wouldn't feel right if I had just let his kid cry in the road until a family member or EMT's got there. Was it my job to calm the child down? No, it was human even though I'd never met the people in my life.

This is HIS base, where a person who happens to be a soldier went missing while they were working on it. Whether he was obligated to or not, I think he should have contacted the family. :twocents:

Bushling's unit is a tenancy; the involved Commander would be the Army Commander at Fort Carson, Colorado. The Dugway commander is actually not in the same chain of command.

But...I just read the "find Joseph Bushling" Facebook page, and there's some wild accusations over there by his relatives. Paraphrasing: "the Army has his body, but is keeping it secret because he wandered into some "hot" area."

I'm sorry, but spreading false rumors like that, is counterproductive. I can understand anger, but I can't understand their belief in stuff like that. Like some other things we've read: it just don't happen that way. In fact, accusing people of being part of widespread government conspiracies may have the opposite effect.
I'm still flummoxed by the father's short visit to the area, yet he wants *everyone else* to search for his son.

 

[Kat]

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/51989176-78/bushling-dugway-army-search.html.csp

By LYNN DeBRUIN

The Associated Press
First published Jun 11 2011 06:50PM
Updated 5 hours ago

The Tooele County Sheriff’s Office and Dugway officials will conduct a ground and aerial search with help from a Utah Highway Patrol helicopter on Sunday.

Prayers that he is found.

Another article:

http://www.heraldextra.com/news/state-and-regional/article_9e547c97-d4fd-588c-9c03-b799a49fdbe5.html

Search resumes for soldier missing in Utah desert

Lynn DeBruin - The Associated Press | Posted: Sunday, June 12, 2011 12:04 am

Herrera said authorities concentrated their search in an area between a locked gate on the northwest corner of Dugway and a site about six miles from where the vehicle was found. He said the hat was discovered between the two, leading searchers to believe the Army medic may have tried walking back toward the gate. Herrera also said that was the only area that seemed to have cell phone coverage.

Thank you Lt. Herrera.

 

[PaulR]

Perhaps I'm the only one, but reading the FB page, it sounds like the family is frustrated that the searches haven't turned up their son. I understand that.

I don't understand why they seem to be taking it out on the Army and Sheriff's department by saying some pretty horrible things about them - things that only seem to be coming from them and not 'reliable' sources - and asking for some pretty unrealistic things, like calling up the National Guard to make a full-blown search. Calling up the NG means pulling people away from their daily jobs and asking them to perform SAR that they are not trained to do. "Just wander around the desert and look for him" is not how SAR is performed.

They've also posted their belief that somebody knows something but is afraid to talk.

Again, I understand their frustration, but don't agree with some of the statements they are making or expectations they have.