UT UT - Spc. Joseph Michael Bushling, 26, Dugway, 8 May 2011

[laytonian]

All just my opinion.

Quite honestly, I have seriously considered the possibility that Joe walked into a testing range. He wasn't in military gear. He was in civilian clothes. He very likely would have gotten shot. They may have admitted their mistake... or may not.

I'm sorry, but unfounded accusations aren't productive. They really don't go running around, willy-nilly, shooting intruders out there at Dugway. It's not Area 51 (and Area 51 itself isn't what the conspiracy buffs portray).

In the past ten years, there have been three heavily-publicized "intrusions" at Dugway, Tooele's nerve gas disposal area and Hill AFB. They are handled by locking down the bases, and searching for the intruder. At Hill AFB, a guy even rammed his car through the main gate - and no one shot at him. The base police searched several hours, until they found him crouching in a culvert.

The entire complex (Dugway Proving Grounds and the Air Force's Utah Test and Training Range) is fenced. That's why there are gates.

A soldier walking up to a manned gate would not be shot. He'd be walking up and asking for help. Why would they shoot him? They don't shoot my husband or son-in-law, when they drive up to a gate at Dugway.

A soldier could not enter an unmanned gate, unless he had a key. If he had attempted to climb up over the barbed wire, it would have been noted.

Like a General told me once: "The military isn't good at babysitting."

 

[laytonian]

Perhaps I'm the only one, but reading the FB page, it sounds like the family is frustrated that the searches haven't turned up their son. I understand that.

I don't understand why they seem to be taking it out on the Army and Sheriff's department by saying some pretty horrible things about them - things that only seem to be coming from them and not 'reliable' sources - and asking for some pretty unrealistic things, like calling up the National Guard to make a full-blown search. Calling up the NG means pulling people away from their daily jobs and asking them to perform SAR that they are not trained to do. "Just wander around the desert and look for him" is not how SAR is performed.

They've also posted their belief that somebody knows something but is afraid to talk.

Again, I understand their frustration, but don't agree with some of the statements they are making or expectations they have.

Thank you. I've read it, and find the accusations stunning.

I think it boils down to many people being afraid of the government, and believing everything's a conspiracy.

Bushling's father is a PTSD Iraq war veteran (who one would have thought, would have not wanted his son to join the Army he disliked). But since he IS a vet, certainly he knows how things work.

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

This is not the place to debate military credibility or conspiracy theories. Keep the focus on the facts, and on Joseph. Thanks.

 

[imamaze]

This is not the place to debate military credibility or conspiracy theories. Keep the focus on the facts, and on Joseph. Thanks.

Just a Reminder...

If you have a question pm one of us Mods. Thank you.

Ima

 

[laytonian]

In reading the reports of last weekend's search, I'm getting more and more confused. Is it just me, or do we have more conflicting information in this case, than nearly any other?

From KTVX/ABC4:

"Volunteers are again going over rugged mountainous terrain in the northwest corner of Dugway Proving Ground."
Bushling's father is quoted as saying "In that voice mail, he said this is Bushling. I ran out of gas. I need you to come out here and get me. I'm freezing cold and I'm southwest of Granite Peak."
Now it's Granite PEAK, and not Granite Mountain?​

From Salt Lake Tribune, Jun 12:

"Searchers spotted the hat about six miles west of Bushling’s car, which was found 64 miles southwest of the Army base’s main gates."​

From SL Trib,May 15:

"Kevin Bushling said his son has no history of mental illness."​

From todaysthv.com, May 17th:

""Medication he takes for depression. He's been taking it since high school. That was in his room," says [Kevin] Bushling."​

 

[STEADFAST]

In reading the reports of last weekend's search, I'm getting more and more confused. Is it just me, or do we have more conflicting information in this case, than nearly any other?

From KTVX/ABC4:

"Volunteers are again going over rugged mountainous terrain in the northwest corner of Dugway Proving Ground."
Bushling's father is quoted as saying "In that voice mail, he said this is Bushling. I ran out of gas. I need you to come out here and get me. I'm freezing cold and I'm southwest of Granite Peak."
Now it's Granite PEAK, and not Granite Mountain?​

From Salt Lake Tribune, Jun 12:

"Searchers spotted the hat about six miles west of Bushling’s car, which was found 64 miles southwest of the Army base’s main gates."​

From SL Trib,May 15:

"Kevin Bushling said his son has no history of mental illness."​

From todaysthv.com, May 17th:

""Medication he takes for depression. He's been taking it since high school. That was in his room," says [Kevin] Bushling."​

Dugway Proving Ground is huge. Granite Peak and Granite Mountain are two different places. Granite Peak is about 70 miles NNW of Granite Mountain. I can see how someone could be considered in the NW portion of Dugway Proving Ground but also in about the center. The actual base (with roads, structures, ect.) is NE of Granite Peak, but there is a vast unoccupied area of Dugway Proving Ground NW of Granite Peak.
Here's a map with Granite Mountain as A, Granite Peak as B, and the Main Gate of Dugway Proving Ground as C.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...0.250184,-112.741699&spn=1.70635,4.446716&z=9

 

[laytonian]

Dugway Proving Ground is huge. Granite Peak and Granite Mountain are two different places. Granite Peak is about 70 miles NNW of Granite Mountain. I can see how someone could be considered in the NW portion of Dugway Proving Ground but also in about the center. The actual base (with roads, structures, ect.) is NE of Granite Peak, but there is a vast unoccupied area of Dugway Proving Ground NW of Granite Peak.
Here's a map with Granite Mountain as A, Granite Peak as B, and the Main Gate of Dugway Proving Ground as C.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...0.250184,-112.741699&spn=1.70635,4.446716&z=9

Yeah, that's it. (I worked for four years, for one of the Air Force's test squadrons who maintained a telemetry station on Granite Peak -- and got to tour a few times with the military.)

That's essentially the same map I showed here, last week, when a GPS location for the car was posted.

According to that *unverified* GPS data, the car was found near Granite Peak ... but the issue I have, is that all reports say the car was found 64 or 70 miles SW of Dugway's main gate -- far off base.

That was the point of my post.

WHY are they searching near a "NW gate", when the vehicle was found so many miles SW of that main gate. NW is the opposite direction.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

I've been trying to figure it out, too.

Googling some of the coordinates (- 39.986490,-113.200040DD), I come up with three results (but all are LostNMissing pages). There's no other source.

Something else interesting on that LostNMissing page: it says there are "no cellphone towers in the area".

If there are no cellphone towers in the area, how did Bushling use his cellphone to call his friend?

This updated Fox13 story (CLICK HERE) has video.

The family clarified to me that the coordinates that were posted in the media was incorrect. The coordinates on the posters are what was provided to our Organization by the family. Thank you for asking the question so that I could provide clarification.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

The family also clarified his flip flops were not found by the army either. (As reported in the media.)

 

[laytonian]

The family clarified to me that the coordinates that were posted in the media was incorrect. The coordinates on the posters are what was provided to our Organization by the family. Thank you for asking the question so that I could provide clarification.

We've never been able to find *any* coordinates reported in the media; all we've found, is what's on your website.

My personal confusion is that the coordinates on your page, don't correlate with the car having been found 64 miles SW of Dugway's main gate. Any ideas?

 

[Kat]

I'm glad the family is reporting that it is possible he did have his flip flops. Thanks Lavanda.

 

[laytonian]

I'm glad the family is reporting that it is possible he did have his flip flops. Thanks Lavanda.

But didn't he call his buddy and tell him that he'd lost them, and was using his shirt on his feet?

 

[Kat]

Lavanda has spoken with the family so I, myself, consider that a more trusted source than mainstream media. Just how I approach some cases. Not all though. But in this particular case at this particular time I'm going with this info.

I think the fact remains that we don't have good information period. But I do respect Lavanda's work and that she has related exactly what the family has said.

 

[laytonian]

Lavanda has spoken with the family so I, myself, consider that a more trusted source than mainstream media. Just how I approach some cases. Not all though. But in this particular case at this particular time I'm going with this info.

I think the fact remains that we don't have good information period. But I do respect Lavanda's work and that she has related exactly what the family has said.

I understand what you're saying. Still, I'm confused.

So the family is confirming that "flip flops not recovered" means that he DIDN'T really lose them -- and that he didn't tell his buddy that he was using his shirt as footwear? Source: Tooele Transcript Bulletin, May 10.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

I understand what you're saying. Still, I'm confused.

So the family is confirming that "flip flops not recovered" means that he DIDN'T really lose them -- and that he didn't tell his buddy that he was using his shirt as footwear? Source: Tooele Transcript Bulletin, May 10.

No. It does not mean that he really didn't lose them...it means they really didn't find them. Hope this clears up any confusion.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

But didn't he call his buddy and tell him that he'd lost them, and was using his shirt on his feet?

Yes. But his flip flops were not found as the media reported.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

We've never been able to find *any* coordinates reported in the media; all we've found, is what's on your website.

My personal confusion is that the coordinates on your page, don't correlate with the car having been found 64 miles SW of Dugway's main gate. Any ideas?

Laytonian...I will be the first to admit, coordinates and geographical landmarks are not my expertise! Trust me when I tell you I need my GPS to navigate my way through my local grocery store! However, I can only report what information the family or the PD provides my organization. Sometimes it may not "make sense" and that is what is so frustrating when trying to locate a missing loved one. However, I can only provide what I am told. I will see if I can get you all an update today. Thank you for your care and work!

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

We've never been able to find *any* coordinates reported in the media; all we've found, is what's on your website.

My personal confusion is that the coordinates on your page, don't correlate with the car having been found 64 miles SW of Dugway's main gate. Any ideas?

The initial coordinates is what was submitted to us by a distant family member when he was registered. However, upon our confirmation by the PD (in order to list a missing loved one we always verify with PD) another family member contacted us after the initial first banner was made to provide us with the corrections on the lat/long. I just assumed the original incorrect coordinates was also in the media. Sorry for confusion.

 

[laytonian]

The initial coordinates is what was submitted to us by a distant family member when he was registered. However, upon our confirmation by the PD (in order to list a missing loved one we always verify with PD) another family member contacted us after the initial first banner was made to provide us with the corrections on the lat/long. I just assumed the original incorrect coordinates was also in the media. Sorry for confusion.

No problem.
None of us ever saw coordinates in the media; yours was the only source.

So you're saying that the car was NOT found 64 miles SW of Dugway's main gate?

 

[laytonian]

Yes. But his flip flops were not found as the media reported.

Only one source (ABC4) had reported that the flipflops had been found...so we'd discounted that due to no confirming information.

To confirm: he reported losing the flipflops, but they have not been found as yet. Thanks.