UT UT - Spc. Joseph Michael Bushling, 26, Dugway, 8 May 2011

[SuziQ]

Laytonian, in response to your question:

I'll put it bluntly: Does the Army really train men who've been on antidepressants "since high school" to be Army nurses, in charge of patients and administering drugs?

I do know they accept people on meds for mental health issues. I do not know if they restrict certain positions within the Army for that. I know of someone who was on Lithium and was accepted into the Army. IIRC, they worked ground transport though.

 

[SuziQ]

You should Post this in the Susan Powell forum. So many can't figure out why no one is searching for her.

From the Appeal-Democrat click here to read.

"(Bushling's father) returned home to Arkansas on Friday. He's not sure if he'll go back.

"It's hot, it's desolate, it's just so vast of an area that's got brush that's about knee-high, you would physically have to have people holding hands to search it effectively," Kevin Bushling said. "You feel like a speck in the middle of the ocean."
​

BBM

That's the problem; it would take thousands and thousands of people to search the desert south of Dugway -- and no one knows WHERE to search. The hat and the car were six miles apart, and who knows where Bushling went from there ... or if he was the car's driver?

So many different versions of his mental state, next assignment, the date(s) of the road trip, etc.

 

[Kat]

http://www.military.com/Recruiting/Content/0,13898,rec_step07_DQ_medical,,00.html

If you anyone is curious here is a list of conditions that will keep you out of the Army. If you scroll way down you will see the list includes psychological issues as well.

Note: There are waivers that will possibly allow someone to still join. It usually is signed off by a Dr. and if the recruit chooses to lie about a condition then they can be found guilty of fraudulent enlistment and dishonorably discharged.

Here are my own thoughts---I'm still very confused why it is said that he had been taking meds since high school for depression?

We have a family member that has had suicidal gestures in the past that wanted to join and was told firmly no by a recruiter. That family member asked my Husband about it and afterwards he said to me "The army doesn't want to put a gun in the hands of a depressed person...defeats the purpose of spending all that time training them".

(Note: he's not as harsh as he sounds, he's just very straightforward and speaks his mind a LOT).

I don't understand how this young man with a history of depression and reportedly having taken meds since high school was in the Army.

But as a new member posted it really isn't germane to Joseph being missing. It's just something tickling at the back of my mind.

I hope he is found and recovered and brought back home to rest. Given that I now know he has a history of depression, recently went through a divorce and his brother commited suicide---I am starting to veer from my opinion that it could be possible that he left of his own accord and that he is deceased and out in the desert---probably in a cavern. JMHO.

 

[laytonian]

You should Post this in the Susan Powell forum. So many can't figure out why no one is searching for her.

Thanks to you, I just did.

 

[Lady LEO]

Link: http://www.appeal-democrat.com/news/utah-107186-dugway-somewhere.html

BBM

Kevin Bushling quote: "My son may be off the grid, but I seriously doubt he's living,"

Army spokeswoman Paula Thomas said officials have no reason to suspect foul play or that Joe Bushling went absent without leave, or AWOL. They offered no other explanation or comment.

"I don't want to go through the rest of my life thinking his remains are out there in the desert," he said. "I don't think any parent would."

I think that it is interesting that the officials don't believe that Joe went missing as a result of foul play and they also don't believe that he is AWOL. How have they ruled out AWOL to such an extent that they are willing to state this so plainly.

The remaining answer for Joe's disappearance that is not being commented on by the officials is that of suicide and/or unintentional death. Seems like there's information that they may be privy to that would make them feel confident in saying what they know didn't happen to him while inferring what they believe did happen to him.

Sadly, even Joe's father appears to be embracing suicide and is now calling for the recovery of his son's remains, not his son's rescue. What changed? Why is the idea of his son living off the grid via AWOL now an idea that the father has abandoned for a more grisly alternative of suicide?

How come the father and family has spent so little time on the ground in Utah searching? I understand that people deal with situations in different ways, but it strikes me that after arriving here that family would maximize their time here covering ground, distributing fliers, pushing officials, holding press conferences, and asking a lot of questions in a frantic, parental drive to find their off-spring. It doesn't make much sense. Families drain their finances, take leave from their jobs, and drive themselves into the ground to find lost loved ones.

Why is this situation any different? Why have the people in the epicenter of this become so resolute to the suicide or unintentional death scenario already?

 

[A51]

:desert: Im new here but seems to me that this guy aint wandern in the dessert. Im guesn that this guy is now black ops and the miltary did this to keep hsi cover and his family knows just enough but not to much.

 

[laytonian]

:desert: Im new here but seems to me that this guy aint wandern in the dessert. Im guesn that this guy is now black ops and the miltary did this to keep hsi cover and his family knows just enough but not to much.

I've known people in "black ops" and top-secret positions. I was one.
What they do is secret, they are not personally secret.

 

[sophieness]

Link: http://www.appeal-democrat.com/news/utah-107186-dugway-somewhere.html

BBM

Kevin Bushling quote: "My son may be off the grid, but I seriously doubt he's living,"

Army spokeswoman Paula Thomas said officials have no reason to suspect foul play or that Joe Bushling went absent without leave, or AWOL. They offered no other explanation or comment.

"I don't want to go through the rest of my life thinking his remains are out there in the desert," he said. "I don't think any parent would."

I think that it is interesting that the officials don't believe that Joe went missing as a result of foul play and they also don't believe that he is AWOL. How have they ruled out AWOL to such an extent that they are willing to state this so plainly.

The remaining answer for Joe's disappearance that is not being commented on by the officials is that of suicide and/or unintentional death. Seems like there's information that they may be privy to that would make them feel confident in saying what they know didn't happen to him while inferring what they believe did happen to him.

Sadly, even Joe's father appears to be embracing suicide and is now calling for the recovery of his son's remains, not his son's rescue. What changed? Why is the idea of his son living off the grid via AWOL now an idea that the father has abandoned for a more grisly alternative of suicide?

How come the father and family has spent so little time on the ground in Utah searching? I understand that people deal with situations in different ways, but it strikes me that after arriving here that family would maximize their time here covering ground, distributing fliers, pushing officials, holding press conferences, and asking a lot of questions in a frantic, parental drive to find their off-spring. It doesn't make much sense. Families drain their finances, take leave from their jobs, and drive themselves into the ground to find lost loved ones.

Why is this situation any different? Why have the people in the epicenter of this become so resolute to the suicide or unintentional death scenario already?

His father stated from the beginning that he would never believe his son would go AWOL. At first his father thought it was foul play, then circumstances made him believe he said that there had been an accident.

 

[A51]

Cours not. Boys dont go AWOL until there AWOL then no one beleves there AWOL til there kickin it at home. Fowl play in the dessert, by what a cactus. Aint much out there but other solders and thems got your back.

Black ops are black ops and they dont go round tellen people there black ops. I collect black ops patches from uniforms of things that didnt oficilly exist but they do exist. Just loook at the boys that did Bin Ladin, who are they? No one knew they were out there until pow here I am and we still dont now who those black ops boys are.

Yeah, there black ops for a reason and miltary gots people in deep cover all the time cuz thats how things gotta be to get things done.

 

[Lady LEO]

Cours not. Boys dont go AWOL until there AWOL then no one beleves there AWOL til there kickin it at home. Fowl play in the dessert, by what a cactus. Aint much out there but other solders and thems got your back.

Black ops are black ops and they dont go round tellen people there black ops. I collect black ops patches from uniforms of things that didnt oficilly exist but they do exist. Just loook at the boys that did Bin Ladin, who are they? No one knew they were out there until pow here I am and we still dont now who those black ops boys are.

Yeah, there black ops for a reason and miltary gots people in deep cover all the time cuz thats how things gotta be to get things done.

Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/01/science/01patc.html
Link: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18067308

Though I'm not sure that Joe is in black ops, A51 is right about some very clandestine military operations that the public still doesn't know the details of.

 

[liz b.]

Cours not. Boys dont go AWOL until there AWOL then no one beleves there AWOL til there kickin it at home. Fowl play in the dessert, by what a cactus. Aint much out there but other solders and thems got your back.

Black ops are black ops and they dont go round tellen people there black ops. I collect black ops patches from uniforms of things that didnt oficilly exist but they do exist. Just loook at the boys that did Bin Ladin, who are they? No one knew they were out there until pow here I am and we still dont now who those black ops boys are.

Yeah, there black ops for a reason and miltary gots people in deep cover all the time cuz thats how things gotta be to get things done.

This man was unknown to all but his immediate circle before he went missing.... When he went missing his photo and name were made visible. It defeats the objective of being clandestine MOO.

He has/had been taking anti depressant meds for years. He had some fairly recent major life stressors, i.e. the suicide of his brother and a divorce. He was about to make a career change which involved relocation...

What does not make any sense is the original story : he called a friend,telling them that he lost his shoes, and was using a shirt to cover his feet... How did he come to loose his shoes ???

JMO

 

[laytonian]

What does not make any sense is the original story : he called a friend,telling them that he lost his shoes, and was using a shirt to cover his feet... How did he come to loose his shoes ???

JMO

:waitasec:

If your shoes come off, don't you just put them back on before you "lose" them? I'd notice right away, if my flip-flop came off.
(We heard "flip flops" - which doesn't make a lot of sense for somone to wear, while exploring the desert.)

Lots of the original report, and some of the later statements, make this case hard to follow. Poor guy. I hope he wasn't on drugs at the time. That could account for some judgment lapses, like leaving the car.

 

[cocomod]

Cours not. Boys dont go AWOL until there AWOL then no one beleves there AWOL til there kickin it at home. Fowl play in the dessert, by what a cactus. Aint much out there but other solders and thems got your back.

Black ops are black ops and they dont go round tellen people there black ops. I collect black ops patches from uniforms of things that didnt oficilly exist but they do exist. Just loook at the boys that did Bin Ladin, who are they? No one knew they were out there until pow here I am and we still dont now who those black ops boys are.

Yeah, there black ops for a reason and miltary gots people in deep cover all the time cuz thats how things gotta be to get things done.

I think that with his depression issues and major life issues lately including the divorce and his brother's suicide, this is a much less likely option. Although there are very quiet military groups, they are the "best of the best". IMHO, this Joseph may be a wonderful guy, but he likely would not "qualify" for this type of operation. If the "letter of the law" were followed, he could have even been excluded from being in the military given his past medical issues.

 

[sophieness]

The government doesn't notify your family that you are a missing person when you are in special ops, so that your picture will be all over the papers and everyone looking out for you. Not exactly the way to be inconspicuous if that is what the military wanted for him. I have a relative in the CIA and they don't go missing to their loved ones, they simply cannot talk about their job. They may not be able to tell you *where* they are going, what they are doing, or talk to you at all times, but they can tell you IF they are leaving, they don't just vanish to their loved ones forever. The government isn't quite that totalitarian, that's like kidnapping. People are still allowed to have a family. This guy was just a medic, training to be a nurse, why expend all that effort for an air search if it wasn't real, that wouldn't make any sense at all.

Poor fellow...now I don't feel like he will be found alive. I hope he is.

 

[A51]

The government doesn't notify your family that you are a missing person when you are in special ops, so that your picture will be all over the papers and everyone looking out for you. Not exactly the way to be inconspicuous if that is what the military wanted for him. I have a relative in the CIA and they don't go missing to their loved ones, they simply cannot talk about their job. They may not be able to tell you *where* they are going, what they are doing, or talk to you at all times, but they can tell you IF they are leaving, they don't just vanish to their loved ones forever. The government isn't quite that totalitarian, that's like kidnapping. People are still allowed to have a family. This guy was just a medic, training to be a nurse, why expend all that effort for an air search if it wasn't real, that wouldn't make any sense at all.

Poor fellow...now I don't feel like he will be found alive. I hope he is.

Black ops boys get hurt they got black ops medics. this guy just sined up for nother tore but we dont no the detales of the new tore. Gov dont always tell it straight, just like them WMDs that we got in war bout. Gov mite say that this guy missing but he's reelly in the middle east. nobody wuld be lookin for him there and his pic wuldnt be there for peeple to no that he is lost. Like what magicans do, that smoke mirrer thing or quick hands. keep ur attenshon in one way while they do some thing when u look away.

did he rite his name on his flip flops like peeple do on there cloths so they no its theres and not some one elses? how duz anyone no that the flip flops are his?

 

[Kiln Wood]

The government doesn't notify your family that you are a missing person when you are in special ops, so that your picture will be all over the papers and everyone looking out for you. Not exactly the way to be inconspicuous if that is what the military wanted for him. I have a relative in the CIA and they don't go missing to their loved ones, they simply cannot talk about their job. They may not be able to tell you *where* they are going, what they are doing, or talk to you at all times, but they can tell you IF they are leaving, they don't just vanish to their loved ones forever. The government isn't quite that totalitarian, that's like kidnapping. People are still allowed to have a family. This guy was just a medic, training to be a nurse, why expend all that effort for an air search if it wasn't real, that wouldn't make any sense at all.

Poor fellow...now I don't feel like he will be found alive. I hope he is.

"just a medic" is definitely capable of saving a life or lives.....although I'm not sure it's a part of military badges or decorations any longer, there used to be a decoration called a CMB (combat medic badge), and many men and more than a few women owe their lives to the combat medics who treated their wounds (some of them indeed life threatening) in Vietnam 45+ years ago.....many of those former combat medics are addressed and referred to as "Doc" even today--and there is a very good reason for that.....

 

[sophieness]

"just a medic" is definitely capable of saving a life or lives.....although I'm not sure it's a part of military badges or decorations any longer, there used to be a decoration called a CMB (combat medic badge), and many men and more than a few women owe their lives to the combat medics who treated their wounds (some of them indeed life threatening) in Vietnam 45+ years ago.....many of those former combat medics are addressed and referred to as "Doc" even today--and there is a very good reason for that.....

I'm sorry that you missed my meaning. I have made it clear I thought it was a huge mistake to call off the search for this gentleman. I am in the healthcare profession and I have the utmost respect for medics, nurses, doctors, nurse's aids, the whole caboodle. My father was a military doctor for over twenty years. But I don't believe it's a top secret job that the government would go to this kind of effort to cover up and fake a disappearance, that doesn't make any sense. In other words, he wasn't a top level spy. Healthcare is healthcare, yes it's admirable, but it's not special forces. Note I'm not saying less worthy, less admirable, but just less needing to be invisible. Besides, they can make whoever they want special ops without pulling these kind of shenanigans. If Navy Seals don't have to fake their own disappearance, this one wouldn't either.

 

[laytonian]

"Kevin Bushling says Army officials won't tell him what happened to his son, 26-year-old Army Specialist Joseph Bushling, and why the search was called off."

Source: Fox13 Utah

(I thought Mr Bushling saw for himself, when he was here for those 2-3 days.)

The news station says they will have a report "from Dugway" tomorrow.

 

[A51]

"Kevin Bushling says Army officials won't tell him what happened to his son, 26-year-old Army Specialist Joseph Bushling, and why the search was called off."

Source: Fox13 Utah

(I thought Mr Bushling saw for himself, when he was here for those 2-3 days.)

The news station says they will have a report "from Dugway" tomorrow.

http://www.fox13now.com/news/kstu-d...oldier-wants-answers-20110605,0,3588977.story

from story;

"The letter that I got stated that he went AWOL," said Bushling.

Just ten days after Joseph's disappearance, a commanding officer from Fort Carson sent a letter to the Bushlings saying: "If SPC Bushling is deliberately absent without leave, his continuing absence could result in a trial by court-martial" and that the goal is to "find your son." But instead of finding him, the search for Bushling was abandoned.

"My son is willing to sign his life away to this country and I'm entrusting the higher ups that are calling the shots to be looking out for his well being and this is the response I get."

i think that the gov aint tellin the hole story or there doin what they normalee do when solders go missin no matter how the solder went missin.

for 1 of my GED homework assinement i had to lern to use google maps and put the long n lat in to see where joes car was fond and it is in nowhere. i started thinkin why wuld he be where he was and if the bro was cold then why did he leeve the car where he wuld be warm and not wet. car is hella lot ezier to find and warmer.

why did this dude go walkin in the nite with the rane and the cold. he dont make no sens why he did what he did.

he was traned and new how to keep safe.

he did all the things to not be safe and make it wicked hard to find him.

this dude waznt thinkin rite. why drive out there. why not check how much gas befor leeving base. aint no 7-11 out there if your out of gas. i lookd on the google map and had to mezur bout where his hat was fond. there aint nothin out ther but desrt.

sumthin aint rite. none a this makes any sense.:waitasec:

 

[believe09]

http://www.fox13now.com/news/kstu-d...oldier-wants-answers-20110605,0,3588977.story

from story;

"The letter that I got stated that he went AWOL," said Bushling.

Just ten days after Joseph's disappearance, a commanding officer from Fort Carson sent a letter to the Bushlings saying: "If SPC Bushling is deliberately absent without leave, his continuing absence could result in a trial by court-martial" and that the goal is to "find your son." But instead of finding him, the search for Bushling was abandoned.

"My son is willing to sign his life away to this country and I'm entrusting the higher ups that are calling the shots to be looking out for his well being and this is the response I get."

i think that the gov aint tellin the hole story or there doin what they normalee do when solders go missin no matter how the solder went missin.

for 1 of my GED homework assinement i had to lern to use google maps and put the long n lat in to see where joes car was fond and it is in nowhere. i started thinkin why wuld he be where he was and if the bro was cold then why did he leeve the car where he wuld be warm and not wet. car is hella lot ezier to find and warmer.

why did this dude go walkin in the nite with the rane and the cold. he dont make no sens why he did what he did.

he was traned and new how to keep safe.

he did all the things to not be safe and make it wicked hard to find him.

this dude waznt thinkin rite. why drive out there. why not check how much gas befor leeving base. aint no 7-11 out there if your out of gas. i lookd on the google map and had to mezur bout where his hat was fond. there aint nothin out ther but desrt.

sumthin aint rite. none a this makes any sense.:waitasec:

Could you link me to an article that has released the physical location of the car please? If not, are you posting from inside the investigation...I must have missed where they released the vehicle's specific location. TIA!!